The Jellyfish in the brains of science deeply insult mankind.

[AV1611VET]

Amen. A preacher got me a copy of Strong's Exhaustive Concordance back in the 70s. I've been a fan since. When the web came along, so did Blue Letter Bible, with the Strong's online helps.

 

[dad]

Amen. Writing came along later.



Amen, but what is state.nature? At the time of Peleg, the Lord transported Noah's descendants all over the world from Babel.

Flying saucers? That seems an extreme way of avoiding the rapid separation of continents at the time.

The division was among Noah's descendants and NOT the dividing the planet from one state to another.

Gen 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Ge 11:9 - Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.


So after Babel people were scattered all over.

A few verses before the one you cite we also see this.


10:25 - sons were born to Eber; the name of the one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

Some commentaries on the verse:....


Peleg
From palag, to divide, because in his days, which is supposed to be about one hundred years after the flood, the earth was divided among the sons of Noah. Though some are of opinion that a physical division, and not a political one, is what is intended here, viz., a separation of continents and islands from the main land; the earthy parts having been united into one great continent previously to the days of Peleg. This opinion appears to me the most likely, for what is said, Genesis 10:5, is spoken by way of anticipation

http://classic.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=10&verse=25#Ge10_25


Verses 25-27
And unto Eber were born two sons: The name of the one was Peleg. For in his days was the earth divided. And his brother's name was Joktan. And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah, and Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah,
This is one of the very interesting lines in the chapter; and, of course, men are not agreed on what is meant by it. The usual explanation of it is as a reference to the division about to be related in the next chapter, the confusion of tongues. Other interpretations, of which there are many, include:

1. a reference to Noah's formally dividing the earth among his sons, an event traditionally assigned to a period more than a hundred years after the flood, and
2. a reference to widespread landslips on the surface of the earth that divided and separated the continents. All such speculations are without foundation in proved events. The view that the division of the earth following the confusion of tongues is most likely the true meaning.

http://classic.studylight.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=10&verse=25#Ge10_25


So, there are different opinions on the matter.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Yes. My opinion is that 'wormhole/stargate/cosmic taps' sort of portals were opened in our time and space connecting to the region outside our 'known universe', where waters above the firmament were at the time.

WHOA! LOL! I KNEW you were a Flat-Earther! I guess I just hadn't got around to asking... no wonder you're so impervious to evidence and facts!

Well, I take it back - I guess you also believe that unruly kids should be stoned at the edge of town, along with people working on the sabbath? Adulterers too?

God came to earth to prove it by dying for us and also fulfilling hundreds and hundreds of precise prophesies about Him coming.

No record of anyone dying for everyone - you'd think that'd be a priority for a God wanting a connection with all of his creation, no? No record of any fulfilled prophesies either, All the examples I've come across before now are hilarious!

Well, that is a bit like saying it is my eternal job to love my mom and dad who will be there also. Not really, it is just a facet of life there, lots of love everywhere. The folks there will always remember what Jesus did for us, and love Him t bits. Many cal that worship.

Webster says this..
: to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power
2: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

• a celebrity worshipped by her fans

Of course He will be honored and respected. Remember also that He honors and respects us also. Like in a marriage, don't they talk about love honor and respect?

If it's the same as parental "worship" then Great! Live the Dream!

The issue is not man or woman, but adultery and lying to God in that ancient nation that was set up to prepare the way.

ADDRESS THE QUESTION ALREADY! What Recourse does the Woman Have if the Priests bitter water potion doesn't cause her to miscarry, but just makes her violently ill for a few days? What does the Biblical Law say about it?

Flood stories of various kinds involving a big boat and mankind being saved abound. Now Moses was a great man of Egypt that brought a great defeat and humiliation to the nation so it is no surprise they tried to erase the memory!

There was no memory! The first biblical writing was in ancient Hebrew, which itself belongs to the Canaanite group of languages. In turn, the Canaanite languages are a branch of the Northwest Semitic family of languages. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language for more. That in itself should tell you that your God seem to have picked a minor dialect that would be forgotten in time, which would need to be translated and copied many times to be kept current - this language is not more that around 3,000 years old! The Bible only ever talks about the Hebrews and Israelites as the chosen few, so all the other lanuages used before and after, let alone all the other Canaanite derivatives besides Hebrew that not only survived, but went on to flourish, flies in the face of your God wanting to make a scene, caring about all of us.

There is some debate about what leader was there at the Exodus. I could zoom in and maybe make an educated guess, but that is another thread. One clue I would look for in dating Egypt is life spans. We could look at the dropping life spans of man listed in the bible, and get approx dates! Far better than so called science/same state past based dates.

LOL! You might as well fill your post with something more interesting, though just as supported as your assumptions, perhaps your concept of what Nephilems, Dragons and talking snakes & donkeys would look & act like?

They apparently latched onto other spirits whom they love honored and respected. After Babel, the folks who had rejected Him formed nations and adopted various demon gods.

seems odd that your God would be motivated to cause that on purpose, don't you think?

However it looks to your circular religion in the fishbowl, the bottom line is that science does not know the state of nature in the past.

It does, the successful predictions are testament (pun intended). That your internet connected devices work are yet more proof of the same.

No? You make it sound like you have some experience with this?

Well, Yes, I live in Australia and we're particularly immigrant friendly. We have quite a diverse ethnic cross-section and as such, we see much of what I described - that is, communities tend to stay fixed, and culture as well as languages mix.

I assume that Babel was at the time of the nature change, and probably one of the effects of it caused by God. That means that also about this time was massive rapid plate movements, and mountain building/uplift etc etc. The area that was then the plains where they were building the tower of Babel likely was pushed under fairly quickly, so tha is why the tower is not now a historical tourist trap I would think. (probably also why ancient temples at Karnak would now have the summer solstice blocked by hills, so they deduce it must have been a winter solstice they were oriented to)

I suspect that the way man processed info in our brains may have been somewhat affected. (thus perhaps different brain sizes became needed/adapted). This is why I think some early 'nations' resorted to scrawling picture words to communicate with others! It seems logical that peoples with the same language would tend to stick together, even if they traded and communicated with other 'nations'. It may have been that the groups of people at Babel, building that tower to the spirit realm above at the time, (the nature change also resulted in the spiritual realm being separated from this physical real to a greater degree apparently!) may have shared 'gods'. That would have been an added incentive to band together. (and perhaps help explain why different areas had different gods!).

So one could hardly wave away the idea that nations would have tended to form.

Well, this is nice & all, but it doesn't fit in with what we know - see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Middle_Eastern_history - everything you say here is just opinion and doesn't have anything to back it up besides your wish that the Bible is literal and true in every respect. It just isn't. There's about 12,000 years of history of emerging civilisations and associated farming and construction technologies.

Massive plate tectonic movement would destroy all life if it were to move as fast as you say it happened to get to how we see it all today - and again, not what we can see in the geological record.

Also, if God could just separate Heaven from your magical realm thingie, why destroy Babel and confuse everyone with different languages?

....Sense, you make not.

History is after the fact! There are no records for the time of Babel except the record God preserved and handed down! Men in my opinion possibly never even had written..anything...before Babel, as there was such superior communication then.

By the time man started to need to draw pictures to communicate, and later progressed to writing, Babel was long gone, and we were well into this present state.nature!

...the one and only nature there's ever been. Anyway, You're again, just asserting nonsense as if it were well-established fact. There aren't any facts to support your favorite story. The facts we do have show no such worldwide flood ever happened and evidence of civilisations from around 12,000 years ago with further nomadic tribes and societies going back 40,000 years and more before this. As much as these earlier nomadic people didn't write anything (besides cave paintings, of course), like detectives, we can find out quite a lot from their discarded tools, rubbish, burials and campsites through archaeology which has revealed quite a rich history right across the continent, it even includes the last of the neanderthals and how we interacted with them too.... too bad we eventually killed them all off...

 

[dad]

WHOA! LOL! I KNEW you were a Flat-Earther! I guess I just hadn't got around to asking... no wonder you're so impervious to evidence and facts!

Not sure what some silly flat earth has to do with recorded events in the bible regarding flood water?

Well, I take it back - I guess you also believe that unruly kids should be stoned at the edge of town, along with people working on the sabbath? Adulterers too?

Why are they God's nation today who were being taught superior truths?

No record of anyone dying for everyone

Ever heard of..Christmas?

ADDRESS THE QUESTION ALREADY! What Recourse does the Woman Have if the Priests bitter water potion doesn't cause her to miscarry, but just makes her violently ill for a few days? What does the Biblical Law say about it?

You sound like you are familiar with the bitter water in Israel thousands of years ago? Why make stuff up?

There was no memory! The first biblical writing was in ancient Hebrew, which itself belongs to the Canaanite group of languages. In turn, the Canaanite languages are a branch of the Northwest Semitic family of languages.

Hebrew was the language of Israel, no? Why would we care if others spoke it also? Why would anyone assume that just because the written Scripture first came in Hebrew, that God started speaking only then?

That in itself should tell you that your God seem to have picked a minor dialect that would be forgotten in time, which would need to be translated and copied many times to be kept current - this language is not more that around 3,000 years old!

Hebrew is alive today actually.

What, you thought He had to pick a people who used the majority tongue??

It does, the successful predictions are testament (pun intended). That your internet connected devices work are yet more proof of the same.

Bible predictions are testament. Science predictions are a joke and often circular nonsense.

Well, Yes, I live in Australia and we're particularly immigrant friendly. We have quite a diverse ethnic cross-section and as such, we see much of what I described - that is, communities tend to stay fixed, and culture as well as languages mix.

Migrants from Babel never went to countries and mixed. They went into..land...and lived.

There's about 12,000 years of history of emerging civilisations and associated farming and construction technologies.

Only by your religious dream dating methods are your fantasy ages real though.

Massive plate tectonic movement would destroy all life if it were to move as fast as you say it happened to get to how we see it all today - and again, not what we can see in the geological record.

In this nature...maybe. It was the former nature. Ha.

Also, if God could just separate Heaven from your magical realm thingie, why destroy Babel and confuse everyone with different languages?

Well, who knows the mind and plan of the Almighty?? My guess would be it may have something to do with limiting the wickedness of man. Waft them out far apart on different continents, unable hardly to communicate, and then reduce the life span by 90% also! That would keep wickedness slowed down a bit I would think.

...the one and only nature there's ever been.

Prove it.

The facts we do have show no such worldwide flood ever happened and evidence of civilisations from around 12,000 years ago with further nomadic tribes and societies going back 40,000 years and more before this.

Dream dates based solely on a same state past are not facts.

As much as these earlier nomadic people didn't write anything (besides cave paintings, of course), like detectives, we can find out quite a lot from their discarded tools, rubbish, burials and campsites through archaeology which has revealed quite a rich history right across the continent, it even includes the last of the neanderthals and how we interacted with them too.... too bad we eventually killed them all off...

It seems natural that man would evolve and adapt to the new nature.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Not sure what some silly flat earth has to do with recorded events in the bible regarding flood water?

Oh, so you do read parts of it as allegory, and not literal after all?

Why are they God's nation today who were being taught superior truths?

Please restate, I have no idea what you're saying here...

Ever heard of..Christmas?

Ahh, Yes, the Pagan Winter Solstice Festival reappropriated by Christians to convert the Heathens... Do Christmas Trees get put up? Christmas Dinner prepared? Yule Log on offer? 12 days of celebration?

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

"Christmas Day is a public holiday in many of the world's nations,[16][17][18] is celebrated religiously by a majority of Christians,[19] as well as culturally by many non-Christians,[1][20] and forms an integral part of the holiday season centered around it."
"Although the month and date of Jesus' birth are unknown, by the early-to-mid fourth century the Western Christian Church had placed Christmas on December 25,[23] a date that was later adopted in the East.[24][25] Today, most Christians celebrate on December 25 in the Gregorian calendar, which has been adopted almost universally in the civil calendars used in countries throughout the world. However, some Eastern Christian Churches celebrate Christmas on December 25 of the older Julian calendar, which currently corresponds to January 7 in the Gregorian calendar, the day after the Western Christian Church celebrates the Epiphany."
"The celebratory customs associated in various countries with Christmas have a mix of pre-Christian, Christian, and secular themes and origins.[30]"

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice

"The pagan Scandinavian and Germanic people of northern Europe celebrated a twelve-day "midwinter" (winter solstice) holiday called Yule (also called Jul, Julblot, jólablót, midvinterblot, julofferfest). Many modern Christmas traditions, such as the Christmas tree, the Christmas wreath, the Yule log, and others, are direct descendents of Yule customs."
"Sol Invictus ("The Unconquered Sun") was originally a Syrian god who was later adopted as the chief god of the Roman Empire under Emperor Aurelian. His holiday is traditionally celebrated on December 25, as are several gods associated with the winter solstice in many pagan traditions.[7] It have been speculated to be the reason behind Christmas' proximity to the solstice.[8]"​

That last one should be a point of note - an earlier Roman Emperor had already hoovered Dec25 for His Syrian God before Emperor Constantine changed it to celebrate Your God later...

You sound like you are familiar with the bitter water in Israel thousands of years ago? Why make stuff up?

I wanted to see your hypocrisy in action... Your spectacular gymnastics to avoid answering the question shows you know your book isn't perfect and/or can't be taken/interpreted literally.

Hebrew was the language of Israel, no? Why would we care if others spoke it also? Why would anyone assume that just because the written Scripture first came in Hebrew, that God started speaking only then?

Didn't your God want to include all his creations? Why pick a favourite warbanding cut-throat tribe in the middle east and only communicate with them?

Hebrew is alive today actually.

What, you thought He had to pick a people who used the majority tongue??

If he wanted his word to be widely understood and followed, Yes! I'm not even a God and I know this to be good practice... The language had to be brought back from extinction - and isn't the exact same as it was then - as much as they'd like it to be...

Bible predictions are testament. Science predictions are a joke and often circular nonsense.

yet yields useful and practical solutions all the time. Go figure..

Migrants from Babel never went to countries and mixed. They went into..land...and lived.

Well, we have genetic records of pre-civilisation humans and neanderthals who have descendants still living in the area. Genetically, the entirety of the human race alive today came from Central Africa. There are generations upon generations of descendants in Africa today who have come from an unbroken line of African-only ancestry - so at no stage did any of their ancestors ever leave Central Africa let alone via Noah's family in the middle east...

Only by your religious dream dating methods are your fantasy ages real though.

Jealous because I have all the evidence and you have no comeback, I see...

In this nature...maybe. It was the former nature. Ha.

Well, them's the Facts - until you can disprove these Facts, your posts are just the musings of some crazy old nutter living out some delusion he can't let go of...

Well, who knows the mind and plan of the Almighty?? My guess would be it may have something to do with limiting the wickedness of man. Waft them out far apart on different continents, unable hardly to communicate, and then reduce the life span by 90% also! That would keep wickedness slowed down a bit I would think.

Those who made him up in the first place? Your suppositions are at odds with a God who loves us and wants to have a relationship with us.

Prove it.

LOL! Not Likely! You start by proving there was a different state past first! You're Hilarious!

Dream dates based solely on a same state past are not facts.

Your baseless assertions are baseless assertions. Until then, the dates we can measure ARE observed facts.

It seems natural that man would evolve and adapt to the new nature.

We constantly evolve. Nature constantly evolves too.

 

[dad]

Oh, so you do read parts of it as allegory, and not literal after all?

You seem to be among those that mistakenly think the bible said the world was flat.

Please restate, I have no idea what you're saying here...

As mentioned before, the blood sacrifices and other things that God had Israel do all pointed to Jesus, and also lessons they needed to learn, such as not lying to God.

Ahh, Yes, the Pagan Winter Solstice Festival reappropriated by Christians to convert the Heathens... Do Christmas Trees get put up? Christmas Dinner prepared? Yule Log on offer? 12 days of celebration?

The One born that day or celebrated being born on that day is the point actually, not pagan practices of old.

​

That last one should be a point of note - an earlier Roman Emperor had already hoovered Dec25 for His Syrian God before Emperor Constantine changed it to celebrate Your God later...

If the Almighty chose to be born on some day that some demon god or emperor also celebrated...who really cares?

Didn't your God want to include all his creations? Why pick a favourite warbanding cut-throat tribe in the middle east and only communicate with them?

Why question God? He had to pick sinners of some sort, there is no one else on earth.

If he wanted his word to be widely understood and followed, Yes! I'm not even a God and I know this to be good practice... The language had to be brought back from extinction - and isn't the exact same as it was then - as much as they'd like it to be...

They are not the same either. So?

Well, we have genetic records of pre-civilisation humans and neanderthals who have descendants still living in the area.

In other words records of people before writing was part of man's experiences. So?

Genetically, the entirety of the human race alive today came from Central Africa.

Well, once this nature came to exist, there was bound to be someone still moving somewhere. So? That doesn't mean the genetics even existed in the former state! So why would we care about modern genetics only when trying to model the past?? Basically irrelevant.

LOL! Not Likely! You start by proving there was a different state past first! You're Hilarious!

I have to go by the record we have. Science doesn't know either way. To claim a same state past is a baseless assertion.

We constantly evolve. Nature constantly evolves too.

I agree. We also were created first before any evolving happened. We also used to adapt and evolve at super fast rates in the former nature.

 

[Aman777]

Flying saucers? That seems an extreme way of avoiding the rapid separation of continents at the time.


BIG SNIP


So, there are different opinions on the matter.

There is NO evidence of such a division of continents at the time. Your view is that of people who cannot support their foolishness with the agreement of Scripture with Science and History. IOW, it's a half-truth a partial truth which is akin to what Donald Trump preaches daily. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Not sure what some silly flat earth has to do with recorded events in the bible regarding flood water?

Your idea that flood water was above the earth is ridiculous. What happened to gravity? Why didn't the firmament fall down under the weight of all that water? A "floating" firmament in the sky demonstrates your silliness and lack of Scriptural support.

 

[Aman777]

You seem to be among those that mistakenly think the bible said the world was flat.

Adam's Earth was flat. It was only 22.5 feet to the top of the highest mountain on Adam's Earth.

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward (22.5 feet) did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Challenge: Show us ONE place on the present Earth where the waters of a flood could cover the highest mountains. You cannot but go ahead and try and I will show you more Scriptural proof that the present Earth is NOT Adam's FLAT Earth. Amen?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

You seem to be among those that mistakenly think the bible said the world was flat.

I don't care what it says - I have no sway either way. What I want to know, are things in the Bible "Not" Literal? For example, in 1 Samuel 2:8 where it says "...for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.", do you interpret this to mean the Earth is literally set on Pillars?

As mentioned before, the blood sacrifices and other things that God had Israel do all pointed to Jesus, and also lessons they needed to learn, such as not lying to God.

Ahh, a loving, bloodthirsty God. Got it. but Why the sacrifices, where destroying his creation and bloodletting it back to him via fire makes any sense? He Created It! Why would he then make rules requiring his creation to destroy his other creations and bloodlet it back to him by flame and smoke? Does Jesus need the blood to surrogate an offering to himself when he kills himself to serve as a loophole for rules he put in place to start with?

The One born that day or celebrated being born on that day is the point actually, not pagan practices of old.

Perhaps to you as a Christian - to me, it's a holiday and a time to celebrate the love and company of family and friends, something Jesus wasn't really a fan of. These celebrations were in place a long time before Christianity was around.

If the Almighty chose to be born on some day that some demon god or emperor also celebrated...who really cares?

Well, You as it turns out - You're the one claiming that Jesus! is the One and Only Reason for the Winter Solstice celebrations - and that simply isn't the case at all. We've even determined that nobody actually knows when Jesus was born (if he existed as a single source for all the stories in the first place), let alone that December 25th is that day...

For a God who wanted to offer salvation to the world, there's a terrible lot of stuff he forgot to cover.

Why question God? He had to pick sinners of some sort, there is no one else on earth.

I'm still not convinced Gods even exist - but to answer your question - Because these aren't the actions of a God of all creation. It sounds more like a wargod of a particular tribe that too many people hundreds, or thousands of years after the fact, have retroactively latched onto as the creator of the universe.

They are not the same either. So?

So he didn't care for his word to be widely understood and followed.... like a Tribal Wargod rather than an all-knowing creator of the universe.

In other words records of people before writing was part of man's experiences. So?

So the human race was never reduced to just 8 examples on a methane choked boat for a year. There's no genetic radiation entirely from the middle east at any point in the history of humans. Therefore, a Worldwide Flood that wiped out everyone except Noah and his family, is literally impossible.

Well, once this nature came to exist, there was bound to be someone still moving somewhere. So? That doesn't mean the genetics even existed in the former state! So why would we care about modern genetics only when trying to model the past?? Basically irrelevant.

If only you knew the hilarity of your comment... I have no doubt you think you made a point, and that just makes me laugh harder...!!

I have to go by the record we have. Science doesn't know either way. To claim a same state past is a baseless assertion.

LOL! You don't have a record, you just have a Claim! Do you even understand the nature of Evidence? No scientific theory is done by just writing something in a Scientific Journal somewhere, and everyone going ".... Seems Legit! Let's run with it!" like you do with your Bible, Theories are rigorously tested by scientists all over the world - results are checked against the existing body of data and evidence, and if necessary, refined and repeated, or if they fail, are dropped as theories when a better one is found. That's exactly Why Science knows what you think it can't know. Even I as a Layperson can take the time to learn the specifics of the subject to make my own assessment of the observations and/or data to verify the science findings for myself. On the other hand, to just blithely set aside all the research and observations in favour of your preferred wish, is just not honest, and that being the case, you have no reason being in the Science forum in the first place.

I agree. We also were created first before any evolving happened. We also used to adapt and evolve at super fast rates in the former nature.

There's the claim - still not seeing any supporting evidence for it. All the evidence we do have points to genetics having always existed since the start of life on this planet, and we've been able to make quite a number of deep-time predictions that wouldn't have been possible if your fantasy past scenario were real.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ahh, a loving, bloodthirsty God.

Just out of curiosity, do you consider someone who needs a blood transfusion "bloodthirsty"?

If not, are you willing to admit that not everyone who requires blood is "bloodthirsty"?

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Just out of curiosity, do you consider someone who needs a blood transfusion "bloodthirsty"?

Well, possibly - thirsting for blood could be construed literally in this case due to a requirement for blood - but the term "bloodthirsty" has a specific connotation, and that'd be for the want of unnecessary brutality or killing.

If not, are you willing to admit that not everyone who requires blood is "bloodthirsty"?

Even were that the case, what does the Creator of the Universe need with blood? if he created the universe to satiate his fetish of blood, why not go the extra mile and leave an underground lake of fresh blood under the surface of the moon or something where he can access it at his leisure away from prying eyes? or a reserve of lambs for every first born child that will ever be born, etc. Why is it necessary for his creations to kill his other creations in his honour? If God wanted something dead, then surely he could do this all on his own, either through natural death after birth of whatever would have to suffer a bloody death, or instead, not allowing it to be born at all?

Here's another one for you, let's say you create an artificial life form, or pet robots that you, and you alone can make - would you give them rules that require some of them to kill some others of them and offer them back to you? I see that as right up there with kitten & puppy murdering.

 

[AV1611VET]

Even were that the case, what does the Creator of the Universe need with blood?

Any fallen angel could pull those tricks you mentioned.

But the fact that God sacrificed His own Son on the Cross, which Son then rose from the dead, can't be imitated by any angel -- fallen or otherwise.

Christianity indeed is head-and-shoulders above anything man or angel can perform.

 

[dad]

There is NO evidence of such a division of continents at the time. Your view is that of people who cannot support their foolishness with the agreement of Scripture with Science and History. IOW, it's a half-truth a partial truth which is akin to what Donald Trump preaches daily. Amen?

There is evidence the continents divided, and your way of determining time is belief based, not fact.

 

[dad]

Your idea that flood water was above the earth is ridiculous. What happened to gravity? Why didn't the firmament fall down under the weight of all that water? A "floating" firmament in the sky demonstrates your silliness and lack of Scriptural support.

Windows of heaven involved more than our physics.

 

[dad]

Adam's Earth was flat. It was only 22.5 feet to the top of the highest mountain on Adam's Earth.

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward (22.5 feet) did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

The flood rose 22 feet above the high mountains of the day.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Any fallen angel could pull those tricks you mentioned.

Show me angels even exist, let alone a fallen angel pulling tricks...

But the fact that God sacrificed His own Son on the Cross, which Son then rose from the dead, can't be imitated by any angel -- fallen or otherwise.

Why was it necessary to sacrifice his son in the first place? He's God, is he not? He can just decide that different rules are now in place. there was no reason to kill his Son while pretty much the entire world except for 12 nobody followers were completely oblivious to what was going on. Just seems so inept for someone who wanted to get a message across to everyone, let alone the creator of the universe...

Christianity indeed is head-and-shoulders above anything man or angel can perform.

Not when considered rationally and objectively, it isn't.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why was it necessary to sacrifice his son in the first place?

His son volunteered.

Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

And do you realize the Bible consists of two testaments: the Old Testament and the New Testament?

Do you know what a testament is?

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

His son volunteered.

Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

so if that's a voluntary thing your God chose to do in this low-key manner not widely seen by the vast majority of the word's population then, why am I expected to believe it on pain of death & eternal torture now? Not to blow my own trumpet, but even I could tell this is a really, really bad way for Anyone to get the most important message about the eternal salvation of my creation to my followers, let alone for an almighty creator of a universe.

And do you realize the Bible consists of two testaments: the Old Testament and the New Testament?

Yes.

Do you know what a testament is?

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

You're still not answering the question. Why is this even necessary again? Who made the rules?

 

[AV1611VET]

so if that's a voluntary thing your God chose to do in this low-key manner not widely seen by the vast majority of the word's population then,

Then what's this?

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

That "fulness of the time" consisted of three things:

1. A sacredotal system up and in place to show the world the need for sacrifice.
2. A near universal Greek language to allow the world to hear the Gospel message.
3. Roman roads that allowed the Gospel message spread the fastest.

... why am I expected to believe it on pain of death & eternal torture now?

Your answer is in your question.

Not to blow my own trumpet, but even I could tell this is a really, really bad way for Anyone to get the most important message about the eternal salvation of my creation to my followers, let alone for an almighty creator of a universe.

Read what you just wrote.

How did they become "His followers" in the first place?

The only ones who have trouble with believing in God are academians, who are taught to throw the baby out with the bathwater.