The issues with Sola Scriptura

[Thursday]

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Does it then follow that we pray to anyone who is 'blessed?'

Luke 6:20
Blessed are you who are poor.

Is it biblical to pray to the poor? A lot of people have been blessed of God. I do not pray to the poor, no matter how blessed they are, I pray to God.
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We should ask others to pray for us. James tells us that the prayers of the righteous are powerful and effective.

 

[Graham Dull]

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We should ask others to pray for us.

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We should ask others to pray for us.
TRUE.

Should we then, ask others to pray to us? Or do we direct our prayers to God alone?
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[Thursday]

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We should ask others to pray for us.
TRUE.

Should we then, ask others to pray to us? Or do we direct our prayers to God alone?
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We ask the saints to pray FOR us.

 

[Graham Dull]

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We ask the saints to pray FOR us.

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We ask the saints to pray FOR us.

I pray directly to God, following the example of Scripture.
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[DJKWord]

We ask the saints to pray FOR us.

Question for you. Mary, the saints--why is it so important to pray to someone other than God? If I was a Catholic, what would happen if I practiced Deus solus all my life, praying only to God?

 

[BukiRob]

The Bible points to the Church and Tradition, and they point to the Bible. It is a 3 legged stool of authority that keeps the Church from collapsing. Remove even 1 of the legs, the stool can no longer stand up and falls over.

The bible does NOT point to Tradition other than to show that most are evil because man as long, long history of putting his tradition before the decree's of G-d.

The Church in Asia Minor is almost exclusively responsible for most of what is the modern New Testament. As early as the late 1st century most of what is now the NT was in wide circulation. The Pauline epistles were circulating in collected forms by the end of the 1st century AD. Justin Martyr, in the early 2nd century, mentions the "memoirs of the Apostles," which Christians (Greek: Χριστιανός) called "gospels," and which were considered to be authoritatively equal to the Old Testament.*

* Ferguson, Everett (2002). "Factors leading to the Selection and Closure of the New Testament Canon". In McDonald, L. M.; Sanders, J. A. The Canon Debate. Hendrickson Publishers. pp. 302–3; cf. Justin Martyr. First Apology. 67.3.

 

[BukiRob]

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We ask the saints to pray FOR us.

I pray directly to God, following the example of Scripture.
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It is well that you do so since asking the dead to do anything is foolishness.

 

[Albion]

We ask the saints to pray FOR us.

You pray to them, in other words.

 

[Thursday]

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We ask the saints to pray FOR us.

I pray directly to God, following the example of Scripture.
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You never pray for others, or ask others to pray for you?

 

[Thursday]

Question for you. Mary, the saints--why is it so important to pray to someone other than God? If I was a Catholic, what would happen if I practiced Deus solus all my life, praying only to God?

The bible tells us that the prayers of the righteous are powerful and effective. Catholics don't have to ask others to pray for us, we get to. Why wouldn't we ask others to pray for us and also pray for others? We are one body.

 

[W2L]

You never pray for others, or ask others to pray for you?

I don't create an icon of them, or ask them to pray for me after they die, no.

 

[Thursday]

The bible does NOT point to Tradition other than to show that most are evil because man as long, long history of putting his tradition before the decree's of G-d.

Hmmm.....

2 Thes 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I commend you for remembering me in everything and for maintaining the traditions, just as I passed them on to you.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who leads an undisciplined life that is not in keeping with the tradition you received from us.

 

[Thursday]

It is well that you do so since asking the dead to do anything is foolishness.

Those who believe and live in Christ will never die.

 

[Wolf_Says]

It is well that you do so since asking the dead to do anything is foolishness.

Revelation 5:8, clearly those up in heaven pray, why would it be foolish to believe that they might be able to pray for us?

 

[Albion]

Hmmm.....

2 Thes 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

Tradition =/= traditions.

 

[Albion]

Revelation 5:8, clearly those up in heaven pray, why would it be foolish to believe that they might be able to pray for us?

We believe that they do pray for us. The issue concerned the practice of us praying TO THEM.

 

[Thursday]

We believe that they do pray for us. The issue concerned the practice of us praying TO THEM.

Catholics pray to saints to ask them to pray for us. Catholics believe that those who die in Christ are alive in Christ in spirit. We believe that those in heaven are fully sanctified and therefore righteous. We believe that they can carry our prayers to God.

 

[Albion]

Catholics pray to saints to ask them to pray for us.

So we are agreed.

 

[Wolf_Says]

So we are agreed.

I believe we are using different terms when it comes to the word PRAY.

For you, praying is a sign of worship.
For Catholics, praying is mearly talking to those in heaven.

If we use your understanding of praying, then I can completely see where you are coming from, and why protestants believe Catholics worship the saints and Mary.

However, the Catholic understanding of praying is just talking, or asking. So there is no worship involved. Worship is in the mass, and adoration of the eucharist. Therefore, Catholics only worship God. We pray, aka talk, to the saints and Mary and ask them to pray to God for us and our souls.

From the Catholic understanding, there is no difference between this, and you going to your friend or pastor and asking them to pray for you. Because it is just talking/asking, there is no worship involved.

 

[Albion]

I believe we are using different terms when it comes to the word PRAY.

For you, praying is a sign of worship.
For Catholics, praying is mearly talking to those in heaven.

I am referring to the same thing in both instances, and you and I are both referring to the same thing as well.

I know that people who want to say that praying to those who have passed on is normal and good will call it "ask" in order to make the practice sound benign or Biblical or exactly identical to asking your next-door neighbor to pray for you. However, it's all the same action.

By the way, I have not said that praying is the same as worshipping, so let's keep that kind of allegation out of the discussion.