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Evidence for The Exodus in The ipuwer papyrus?
Wordpress article originally by Luchnia.

The search for more Evidence of The Exodus.
Here we look at The Ipuwer papyrus.

Dr. Titus Kennedy Ph.D says - paraphrased:
The copy dates to 13th Century BC.
If we look at details of the linguistics, they only come into use 18th Dynasty.
Or at least rewritten with that language....)

Dr. Titus Kennedy Ph.D also dates The ipuwer papyrus to Amenhotep ii.
While others, think Thutmose III. This gives a ballpark timeline for The Exodus.

(Image of suggested timeline outlining Thutmose's III (The 3rd).
unknown.png


Following transcript ( taken from a video interview link at end).

Dr. Titus Kennedy Ph. D:
(https://shepherds.edu/faculty-and-staff/titus-kennedy/)
So this is an Egyptian papyrus that dates to the 13th century BC, at least the copy

that we have. There’s only one copy known in existence today. It was composed
sometime before that, so before the 13th century bc. And the author his name was
ipuwer so that’s why it’s often called the ipuwer papyrus.

Now most scholars put the composition pretty early like at least the second intermediate period.
Some would even put it in the middle kingdom an past, some even pushed it farther back. But, if we look at details of the linguistics some of the words and phrases that are used there,
they only come into use in the 18th dynasty. And so it looks more like it was composed in
the 18th dynasty or at least rewritten with the language at that time.


Now the content is something that, got people interested in this text in

terms of connecting it to the exodus. Because in general it’s a poem that is talking
about destruction and death throughout the land of Egypt. But there are some
really interesting lines in there like, the river has turned to blood. So The Nile river is turned to blood. It’s (blood) all throughout the land of Egypt.

And that, you know people reading that they just immediately think oh, that feels like the exodus story. And so that’s where the connection initially came in.
But if you read through the text there are a variety of different components

that have parallels in the exodus story- (continued)...

Full interview at youtube title:
Historical Evidence for the Exodus from Egypt (with Titus Kennedy) with
Dr. Sean McDowell. Video timestamp 25:49.

The ipuwer papyrus English translation with notations follows:
Section II
Indeed, poor men have become owners of wealth, and he who could not make sandals for himself is now a possessor of riches.

Indeed, men’s slaves, their hearts are sad, and magistrates do not fraternize with their people when they shout.

Indeed, [hearts] are violent, pestilence is throughout the land, blood is everywhere, death is not lacking, and the mummy-cloth speaks even before one comes near it.

Indeed, many dead are buried in the river; the stream is a sepulcher and the place of embalmment has become a stream.

Indeed, noblemen are in distress, while the poor man is full of joy. Every town says: “Let us suppress the powerful among us.”

Indeed, men are like ibises. Squalor is throughout the land, and there are none indeed whose clothes are white in these times.

unknown.png


Indeed, the land turns around as does a potter’s wheel; the robber is a possessor of riches and [the rich man is become] a plunderer.

Indeed, trusty servants are [. . .]; the poor man [complains]: “How terrible! What am I to do?”

Indeed, the river is blood, yet men drink of it. Men shrink from human beings and thirst after water.

Indeed, gates, columns and walls are burnt up, while the hall of the palace stands firm and endures.

Indeed, the ship of [the southerners] has broken up; towns are destroyed and Upper Egypt has become an empty waste.

Indeed, crocodiles [are glutted] with the fish they have taken, for men go to them of their own accord; it is the destruction of the land. Men say: “Do not walk here; behold, it is a net.” Behold, men tread [the water] like fishes, and the frightened man cannot distinguish it because of terror.

Indeed, men are few, and he who places his brother in the ground is everywhere. When the wise man speaks, [he flees without delay].

Indeed, the well-born man [. . .] through lack of recognition, and the child of his lady has become the son of his maidservant.


A complete The ipuwer papyrus at this link:
Complete translation of the ancient Egyptian Ipuwer Papyrus with notes (potential confirmation of Moses and the Exodus). - Bible Blender

If the original link does not work, can find a not exact backup of the page, at wayback machine

Complete translation of the ancient Egyptian Ipuwer Papyrus with notes (potential confirmation of Moses and the Exodus). - Bible Blender
 

dqhall

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Evidence for The Exodus in The ipuwer papyrus?
Wordpress article originally by Luchnia.

The search for more Evidence of The Exodus.
Here we look at The Ipuwer papyrus.

Dr. Titus Kennedy Ph.D says - paraphrased:
The copy dates to 13th Century BC.
If we look at details of the linguistics, they only come into use 18th Dynasty.
Or at least rewritten with that language....)

Dr. Titus Kennedy Ph.D also dates The ipuwer papyrus to Amenhotep ii.
While others, think Thutmose III. This gives a ballpark timeline for The Exodus.

(Image of suggested timeline outlining Thutmose's III (The 3rd).
unknown.png


Following transcript ( taken from a video interview link at end).

Dr. Titus Kennedy Ph. D:
(https://shepherds.edu/faculty-and-staff/titus-kennedy/)
So this is an Egyptian papyrus that dates to the 13th century BC, at least the copy

that we have. There’s only one copy known in existence today. It was composed
sometime before that, so before the 13th century bc. And the author his name was
ipuwer so that’s why it’s often called the ipuwer papyrus.

Now most scholars put the composition pretty early like at least the second intermediate period.
Some would even put it in the middle kingdom an past, some even pushed it farther back. But, if we look at details of the linguistics some of the words and phrases that are used there,
they only come into use in the 18th dynasty. And so it looks more like it was composed in
the 18th dynasty or at least rewritten with the language at that time.


Now the content is something that, got people interested in this text in
terms of connecting it to the exodus. Because in general it’s a poem that is talking
about destruction and death throughout the land of Egypt. But there are some
really interesting lines in there like, the river has turned to blood. So The Nile river is turned to blood. It’s (blood) all throughout the land of Egypt.

And that, you know people reading that they just immediately think oh, that feels like the exodus story. And so that’s where the connection initially came in.
But if you read through the text there are a variety of different components

that have parallels in the exodus story- (continued)...

Full interview at youtube title:
Historical Evidence for the Exodus from Egypt (with Titus Kennedy) with
Dr. Sean McDowell. Video timestamp 25:49.

The ipuwer papyrus English translation with notations follows:
Section II
Indeed, poor men have become owners of wealth, and he who could not make sandals for himself is now a possessor of riches.

Indeed, men’s slaves, their hearts are sad, and magistrates do not fraternize with their people when they shout.

Indeed, [hearts] are violent, pestilence is throughout the land, blood is everywhere, death is not lacking, and the mummy-cloth speaks even before one comes near it.

Indeed, many dead are buried in the river; the stream is a sepulcher and the place of embalmment has become a stream.

Indeed, noblemen are in distress, while the poor man is full of joy. Every town says: “Let us suppress the powerful among us.”

Indeed, men are like ibises. Squalor is throughout the land, and there are none indeed whose clothes are white in these times.

unknown.png


Indeed, the land turns around as does a potter’s wheel; the robber is a possessor of riches and [the rich man is become] a plunderer.

Indeed, trusty servants are [. . .]; the poor man [complains]: “How terrible! What am I to do?”

Indeed, the river is blood, yet men drink of it. Men shrink from human beings and thirst after water.

Indeed, gates, columns and walls are burnt up, while the hall of the palace stands firm and endures.

Indeed, the ship of [the southerners] has broken up; towns are destroyed and Upper Egypt has become an empty waste.

Indeed, crocodiles [are glutted] with the fish they have taken, for men go to them of their own accord; it is the destruction of the land. Men say: “Do not walk here; behold, it is a net.” Behold, men tread [the water] like fishes, and the frightened man cannot distinguish it because of terror.

Indeed, men are few, and he who places his brother in the ground is everywhere. When the wise man speaks, [he flees without delay].

Indeed, the well-born man [. . .] through lack of recognition, and the child of his lady has become the son of his maidservant.


A complete The ipuwer papyrus at this link:
Complete translation of the ancient Egyptian Ipuwer Papyrus with notes (potential confirmation of Moses and the Exodus). - Bible Blender

If the original link does not work, can find a not exact backup of the page, at wayback machine

Complete translation of the ancient Egyptian Ipuwer Papyrus with notes (potential confirmation of Moses and the Exodus). - Bible Blender
The read the Ipuwer Papyrus and remembered the ancient Egyptian Story of Sinuhe. The story of Sinuhe is the theoretical inspiration for part of the story of Moses as there are similarities. Sinuhe was a man afraid he might be killed by a jealous prince. He fled into the Sinai Desert like a fugitive. While almost dead of thirst, a group of Bedouin rescued him. Sinuhe journeyed across the desert to a land of milk and honey. He married into a rich family and became the head of a tribe. Late in life he gave away his property to his family and returned to Egypt where he was accepted by Pharoah as a member of the ruling class.

Tale of Sinuhe
 
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dqhall

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I dont see any similarities here. But to suggest Moses borrowed from this is not true. In the desert everyone is always dead of thirst.
Moses murdered someone and fled across the desert to Midian (Arabia?). Moses went back to Egypt. He promised Israel he would lead them to a land of milk and honey. Most of them died during the 40 year journey, except Joshua and Caleb. Moses was able to climb Mt. Nebo and look at the land across the Jordan before he died. He and most of his original followers never entered into the land of milk and honey.

Sinuhe escaped as a fugitive. He thought the rulers were going to kill him. He almost perished in the Sinai desert, but was rescued by nomads and continued his journey. Maybe he found the land of milk and honey at the coastal plain near Tel Aviv, the Jezreel Valley or Lebanon. He returned to Egypt to tell his story.

I do not know how much truth there is to either story, but these Torah commandments are important. The Mesopotamians and Egyptians had earlier written legal codes written in cuneiform and heiroglyphics. The The Apostle Paul did not believe in subjecting Gentiles to circumcision or other controversial Torah laws. Gentiles are not supposed to eat meat sacrificed to idols and are asked to abstain from sexual immorality: no premarital sex, no adultery, no sodomy.

Jesus taught not only is murder wrong, but to be mad at someone is wrong. An angry person thought about harming someone.

Jesus taught not only is adultery wrong, but lust is a terrible sin. A person filled with lust had fantasies of illicit sexual pleasure.
 
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helmut

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The read the Ipuwer Papyrus and remembered the ancient Egyptian Story of Sinuhe. The story of Sinuhe is the theoretical inspiration for part of the story of Moses as there are similarities.

Similarities?
Sinuhe was a man afraid he might be killed by a jealous prince. He fled into the Sinai Desert like a fugitive.

Mose became a fugitive because he had killed an Egyptian, no jealous prince involved. No similarity.
While almost dead of thirst, a group of Bedouin rescued him.

Mose was not in the danger of dying of thirst, but on the contrary he was the one who gave water to the daughters of Re`uel. No similarity.
Sinuhe journeyed across the desert to a land of milk and honey.
Similarity, but a quite different place in the story.
He married into a rich family
Similarity.
and became the head of a tribe.
Mose did not, no similarity.
Late in life he gave away his property to his family
Mose did nothing like that. No similarity.
and returned to Egypt
Similarity.
where he was accepted by Pharoah as a member of the ruling class.
Mose was not accepted, neither by the Egyptians nor the oppressed ones, until he freed them by supernatural wonders. And even after that, his authority was several disputed. No similarity at all.

To sum up: Someone who fled Egypt (for quite different reasons in the two stories) experienced in the desert something connected to thirst/water, married into a powerful family (whether Re`uel can be called »rich« is an open question) and later returned to Egypt (with very different circumstances in both stories). And there is a journey to a land of milk and honey (which seems to have been a conventional phrase for affluent agriculture), but the number of persons involved and the time when it happened is different. Even the numbering of the similarities requires to mention some differences!

If you sift through some hundred stories, you will certainly find some resemblance to the Mose story in one (or more) of them. That's coincidence.
 
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dqhall

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Similarities?


Mose became a fugitive because he had killed an Egyptian, no jealous prince involved. No similarity.


Mose was not in the danger of dying of thirst, but on the contrary he was the one who gave water to the daughters of Re`uel. No similarity.

Similarity, but a quite different place in the story.

Similarity.

Mose did not, no similarity.

Mose did nothing like that. No similarity.

Similarity.

Mose was not accepted, neither by the Egyptians nor the oppressed ones, until he freed them by supernatural wonders. And even after that, his authority was several disputed. No similarity at all.

To sum up: Someone who fled Egypt (for quite different reasons in the two stories) experienced in the desert something connected to thirst/water, married into a powerful family (whether Re`uel can be called »rich« is an open question) and later returned to Egypt (with very different circumstances in both stories). And there is a journey to a land of milk and honey (which seems to have been a conventional phrase for affluent agriculture), but the number of persons involved and the time when it happened is different. Even the numbering of the similarities requires to mention some differences!

If you sift through some hundred stories, you will certainly find some resemblance to the Mose story in one (or more) of them. That's coincidence.
You are argumentative. Sinuhe crossed the desert without striking a rock to get water. Sinuhe did not wander around lost for 40 years. He actually entered the land of milk and honey.
 
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helmut

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You are argumentative.
I see a very weak argument and cannot follow your conclusion.
Sinuhe crossed the desert without striking a rock to get water. Sinuhe did not wander around lost for 40 years. He actually entered the land of milk and honey.
You add more dissimilarities. Does that mean you abandon the idea that Sinuhe was »the theoretical inspiration for part of the story of Moses«?
 
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dqhall

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I see a very weak argument and cannot follow your conclusion.

You add more dissimilarities. Does that mean you abandon the idea that Sinuhe was »the theoretical inspiration for part of the story of Moses«?
Hammarubi‘s legal code c. 1750 contained the examples of Lex Talionis. Scholars found similar in the Bible. They have found similarities since before I was born. You might argue there is no similarity, but read the article.
Lex talionis - New World Encyclopedia
 
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helmut

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Hammarubi‘s legal code c. 1750 contained the examples of Lex Talionis. Scholars found similar in the Bible. They have found similarities since before I was born. You might argue there is no similarity, but read the article.
Lex talionis - New World Encyclopedia
My comment was about your statement to Sinuhe. I did not say that there are no similarities whatsoever, I said the similarities between Sinuhe and Mose are coincidental.
 
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dqhall

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My comment was about your statement to Sinuhe. I did not say that there are no similarities whatsoever, I said the similarities between Sinuhe and Mose are coincidental.
There is coastal route between Egypt and Israel. In Acts the Ethiopian Eunuch was traveling from Egypt in the vicinity of Gaza on his way to Jerusalem. The Holy Spirit instructed Philip to greet the Eunuch as the Eunuch read Isaiah. Philip told him about Jesus Christ.

There was information about Jewish and Egyptian laws traveling with those who went back and forth.

I was in a Biblical archaeology lecture when I learned seven of the ten commandments were in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
Were the Ten Commandments taken from the Egyptian Book of the Dead?
These were in use before the Bible.
 
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