I’ve seen a lot of us say different things all claiming to be led by the spirit. I can’t imagine that there is supposed to be this level of confusion.I dont think an All-Knowing, Perfect, and Good God would permit His Word to be twisted; albeit some have done it, but those things are obvious to those led by the Spirit.
Yes, they basically are.
ok you totally did not understand what I was saying.It's not pagan, it's Jesus-centered. Jesus says the true blessings come from following him. He says nothing about settling down into bronze/iron age domesticity. Indeed, he seems to disdain the notion that traditional family obligations of his culture have some kind of ultimacy (Luke 9:60).
Implying that the "word of God" here means the written portion and not the oral one.I think the point @mark kennedy established is that the apostles were proclaiming the 'word of God' or 'word of the Lord' and as such like the OT prophets, they were establishing Scriptures.
Paul is very clear in Colossians that he was preaching 'the word of God.'
Colossians 1: NASB
24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. 25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, 26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, 27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ. 29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.
Seems to be a theme:
Act 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.
Act 6:2
So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables.
Act 6:7
The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
Act 8:14
Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
Act 11:1
Now the apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
Act 13:5
When they reached Salamis, they began to proclaim the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews; and they also had John as their helper.
Act 13:7
who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God.
Act 13:46
Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Act 17:13
But when the Jews of Thessalonica found out that the word of God had been proclaimed by Paul in Berea also, they came there as well, agitating and stirring up the crowds.
Act 18:11
And he settled there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
Rom 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
1Co 14:36
Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?
2Co 2:17
For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.
2Co 4:2
but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
Eph 6:17
And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Phl 1:14
and that most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord because of my imprisonment, have far more courage to speak the word of God without fear.
Col 1:25
Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,
1Th 2:13
For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.
1Ti 4:5
for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
2Ti 2:9
for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned.
Tit 2:5
to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.
Heb 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Heb 6:5
and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
Heb 13:7
Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.
1Pe 1:23
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
2Pe 3:5
For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
1Jo 2:14
I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
Rev 1:2
who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
Rev 1:9
I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
If I am remembering correctly, the oldest manuscript was dated at 125AD, and contains portions of John 18. Are you suggesting John lived until 125AD and wrote these himself?
So it seems I just have to trust them I guess with the most important thing in my life. I still wonder about them. Isn’t it a little weird when people say we have to understand the context when we have no idea if the people we are learning that context from actually knew the context? It just seems to be a lot of I’m good as long as so and so was right.Matthew 16:19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”
A proper historical understanding of our Lord's word usage here says that HE gave humans that level of trust.
Not only would they be given authority to write the NT; the choices and decisions they made be backed up by heaven itself.
I’ve seen a lot of us say different things all claiming to be led by the spirit. I can’t imagine that there is supposed to be this level of confusion.
Did you know that over 33% of the NT is the OT inferred or directly quoted? The "Word of God" (when speaking of the written word) or "Scripture" when mentioned in the NT, is NOT a reference to the NT. Everything messiah did was foretold either directly in prophecy or indirectly through the pictures presented in the Feasts and sacrifices. So when the Apostles, who didn't add or take from what was already Scripture, proclaimed whatever was in the Word of God (again, speaking of that which was written) they were NOT referring to themselves and their own work. Paul did not write a letter to Ephesus thinking we might one day see his work alongside the rest of the canon. He didn't know that, he had no way to know that... and if we remove our bias and just think about it for a minute... we'll find it doesn't change anything other than... it might add a little weight to the OT. But then that is really the issue here even if nobody will be willing to admit to it.I think the point @mark kennedy established is that the apostles were proclaiming the 'word of God' or 'word of the Lord' and as such like the OT prophets, they were establishing Scriptures.
Paul is very clear in Colossians that he was preaching 'the word of God.'
Colossians 1: NASB
24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. 25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, 26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, 27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ. 29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.
Seems to be a theme:
Act 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.
Act 6:2
So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables.
Act 6:7
The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
Act 8:14
Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
Act 11:1
Now the apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
Act 13:5
When they reached Salamis, they began to proclaim the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews; and they also had John as their helper.
Act 13:7
who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence. This man summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God.
Act 13:46
Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Act 17:13
But when the Jews of Thessalonica found out that the word of God had been proclaimed by Paul in Berea also, they came there as well, agitating and stirring up the crowds.
Act 18:11
And he settled there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
Rom 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
1Co 14:36
Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?
2Co 2:17
For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.
2Co 4:2
but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
Eph 6:17
And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Phl 1:14
and that most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord because of my imprisonment, have far more courage to speak the word of God without fear.
Col 1:25
Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,
1Th 2:13
For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.
1Ti 4:5
for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
2Ti 2:9
for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned.
Tit 2:5
to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.
Heb 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Heb 6:5
and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
Heb 13:7
Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.
1Pe 1:23
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
2Pe 3:5
For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
1Jo 2:14
I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
Rev 1:2
who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
Rev 1:9
I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
Here is a bit of a wrench in your works:So it seems I just have to trust them I guess with the most important thing in my life. I still wonder about them. Isn’t it a little weird when people say we have to understand the context when we have no idea if the people we are learning that context from actually knew the context? It just seems to be a lot of I’m good as long as so and so was right.
John did not live until 125AD, but he did write the words of the gospel that bears his name.
Respectfully, it is pagan centered because the Greek culture itself was not Christian... it was polytheist. To use their mindset and try to unlock the Hebraic nature of the scriptures might not be a pagan act, but it is an act that will leave a lot of food on the table God desires for you. And to get it...to get that food, you need to look at Scripture through the eyes of those who penned it. The bible is a Jewish book. While one doesn't need to be Jewish to appreciate or understand it... one does need to consider what is written from that perspective in order to see all there is to see.It's not pagan, it's Jesus-centered. Jesus says the true blessings come from following him. He says nothing about settling down into bronze/iron age domesticity. Indeed, he seems to disdain the notion that traditional family obligations of his culture have some kind of ultimacy (Luke 9:60).
So could we take the approach that where the Bible is clear we take it and where it’s no so clear we just say I’m not sure and move on. I find it difficult once we start adding in our own opinions of what scripture means. It’s seems no one wants say I’m not sure. There’s nothing wrong with not being sure in my opinion.The Lord is not the author of confusion. We either take the Bible for what it says as Gospel (pun intended), or we rip out and bend the parts we don't like so we may fashion a golden calf for ourselves that we are willing to worship.
Paul Washer said these profound words in a sermon once: Everyone wants to go to heaven, but there are few that want God to be there.
It's your assumption, so the burden of proof lies with you.Oh, Lord. Do I really gotta dig it all up for ya?
OK, I must apologize then. It's not your made-up definition. It's obviously a version of the historic definition that had to be created in order to remove fallible men from the picture.Here is Berkhof on inspiration - Louis Berkhof on The Inspiration of the Bible
Here is Calvin on inspiration - John Calvin's view of Scripture - Wikipedia
Here is BB Warfield on inspiration - Hodge and Warfield on the Inspiration of the Bible
ok you totally did not understand what I was saying.
I am talking about logic frameworks; not specific family structures.
I get it. I guess I wanna be 100% certain and I’m trying to figure it all out. Thanks for your input in helping my search.Here is a bit of a wrench in your works:
Romans 3:1
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision?
2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.
God entrusted the JEWS with His word. And yes, since the NT writers were all Jewish, that includes the NT as well.
Romans 11 tells us that once God gives something, it is never rescinded.
I'm sure he did. But we don't have his original manuscript, or indeed any of the original manuscripts. Indeed we have manuscripts which differ from one another.
Respectfully, it is pagan centered because the Greek culture itself was not Christian... it was polytheist. To use their mindset and try to unlock the Hebraic nature of the scriptures might not be a pagan act, but it is an act that will leave a lot of food on the table God desires for you. And to get it...to get that food, you need to look at Scripture through the eyes of those who penned it. The bible is a Jewish book. While one doesn't need to be Jewish to appreciate or understand it... one does need to consider what is written from that perspective in order to see all there is to see.
What does it even mean to "believe the Bible". I thought our religion was about believing in Jesus Christ and trusting in him for our salvation?
The Logos can speak his Word through scripture, but the Logos is still a person, not an infallible book. God alone is infallible.
What?
Do you mean THE WORD, JESUS
or do you mean the Word of God...the bible?
I'm talking about the bible.
The bible did not always exist.
Do you think the bible always existed??
Yahshua is the Word of Elohim. I'm talking about everything that exists, which He upholds (including the Bible). What is your point about when the Bible was written?
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