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Now, if we translate that to John 3:16 we get this:
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him (the sheep) should not perish but have eternal life."
Nothing here about non-sheep.
You would also know that Calvinists believe that the level of faith of an individual has no bearing on salvation whatsoever, because salvation is secured by God.
A Calvinist does not trust in the fickleness of His own faith because we recognize no man is perfect, and no believer believes perfectly. A Calvinist trusts in the sovereignty of God and trusts in the works of the only One who, born under the law, knew NO sin had became the perfect sacrificial lamb without blemish and laid down His life for His people, at the Cross.
There are two views of double predestination, I have given you the orthodox Calvinist asymmetrical view where God actively intervenes with the elect and passes over some. The other view, which I believe is the one you're referring to, is a symmetrical view sometimes called equal ultimacy. This view holds that God actively intervenes on both parties. This is hyper-Calvinism and this view does radical violence to the integrity of God's character.I suppose I still have to ask about double predestination. You don't seem to hold to that view but there are some Calvinists who do right?
Isn't that nice how Calvinists know our own beliefs better than we do. lol.Your theology is proof enough that you do not believe or trust in the sovereignty of God. You say that you do, but it's simply not the case.
There's no scripture that says anyone can become a sheep. That's just reading into the text something that's not there.No but John 10 says that everyone can become his sheep, salvation is open to all men.
"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
/Joh 10:37-38
Who are God's sheep? Those that follow him (Joh 10:27). Did you follow God before you were a Christian?
Do you know that even those that are his sheep may be lead astray? Read Matt 18.
"What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish."
I agree. And a proper understanding of context is most important to understand how it's being used.I like the word 'all' being used.
As in "All who come to Him in faith" and "All who believe upon Christ shall be saved".
Yes, ALL is a good word.
Show me that God has put all in any context but the use as properly used 'all' in those verses. Context would be the verses before and after, so please show me.I agree. And a proper understanding of context is most important to understand how it's being used.
Which verses are you referring to?Show me that God has put all in any context but the use as properly used 'all' in those verses. Context would be the verses before and after, so please show me.
In post #48 I shared parts of two verses.Which verses are you referring to?
I need the actual verses and reference to be able to address context.In post #48 I shared parts of two verses.
As in "All who come to Him in faith" and "All who believe upon Christ shall be saved"
So if you can show me the context of all in these two verses by showing the context as you said that shows that all is only the elect, which is the Calvinist viewpoint.
Context.As in "All who come to Him in faith" and "All who believe upon Christ shall be saved"
As to sheep being led astray, yes, that's true. And the Shepherd always goes and gets them.
"What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? "When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. "And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!' "I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. (Luke 15:4-7)"What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish." /Matt 18
Excuse me but how do you turn an "IF" to an "ALWAYS"?
Because Jesus is the Good Shepherd. I think He's pretty good at getting His sheep."What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish." /Matt 18
Excuse me but how do you turn an "IF" to an "ALWAYS"?
"What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? "When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. "And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!' "I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. (Luke 15:4-7)
One of the big problems with Calvinism is that you can't know that Jesus died for you without looking at your own faith. How can you trust in Jesus death for you on the cross without knowing he died for you? And the only way for a Calvinist to know for sure is checking his/her own faith. So to me Calvinism starts in the wrong end.
What if you WANT to be saved, but you aren't CHOSEN...
when it is God who is making double election to damnation.
I would agree if Calvinists simply said God doesn't predestine people to damnation, but that's exactly what they say. What's more it isn't on account of the person or anything they have done that they are predestined, but it's simply God's will because God is utterly sovereign. They were predestined to damnation before they even sinned. Just as he saves independent of what the person does according to his own knowledge, he does so for the person who is damned.
A certain amount of mystery and faith in the possibility that you don't for absolute certain that you are saved.
What if you WANT to be saved, but you aren't CHOSEN...
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