• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

The inconsistencies of the Covenant of Redemption, the Covenant of Works, and the Covenant of Grace

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Dr. Jack, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

    +1,273
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    That isn't even the question.

    The point is that God created humanity all the while knowing exactly what would happen.

    Of course God doesn't want anyone to sin. But He has always known everyone will.

    So again, the cross is the solution to creation.
     
  2. Dr. Jack

    Dr. Jack Well-Known Member

    838
    +120
    United States
    Baptist
    Private
    Now think ... God is the 1st cause ... and God is sovereign ...
    That means, Adam could only do what God decreed. That removes choice.

    CHOICE
    • : the act of choosing : the act of pickingor deciding between two or morepossibilities
    • : the opportunity or power to choosebetween two or more possibilities : the opportunity or power to make a decision
    • : a range of things that can be chosen
    Merriam Webster 2019

    The fact that God decreed or ordained the event to occur means that Adam had no choice but to fulfill that decree.

    Hence, the reality of the fact is, since (according to Calvinism) Adam was decreed to sin, and could not have done otherwise; he had no choice. I would refer you again to the definition of "choice".

    "the opportunity or power to choose between two or more possibilities : the opportunity or power to make a decision"

    How can a predestined event occur by choice? (Meaning a "2nd cause choice", since the sovereign authority had already determined the outcome.)

    Trust me, many Refomers would disagree with you!

    Now you're making assertions to know what I have said for years, when you've known of me for only a few weeks.
     
  3. Dr. Jack

    Dr. Jack Well-Known Member

    838
    +120
    United States
    Baptist
    Private
    That is PRECISELY the issue that separates you and I from Determinism and Calvinism (Reformed Theology).
    The idea that God can absolutely know what every person will choose, in every decision in his life, without being decreed, ordained, or predestinate to do so is absolutely unfathomable to Reformed Theologists ... yet, it is so simple, even children can grasp it!
     
  4. Dr. Jack

    Dr. Jack Well-Known Member

    838
    +120
    United States
    Baptist
    Private
    Each time I discuss the inconsistencies of the Covenant of Redemption the Covenant of Works, and the Covenant of Grace, there is never an opponent that can successfully reconcile the problems. In the final analysis, there is never an answer provided that can explain the particular problem of God decreeing all events, and yet giving man a free will.
     
  5. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

    +1,273
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Right.

    When a Calvinist makes the claim that "whatever happens is ordered by God" (post #122), they have just backed themselves into a corner theologically.

    Because that means that God ordered sin to occur. Which is a stunning claim.
     
  6. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie Supporter

    +538
    Christian
    Married
    That's why I left Reformed theology. It contradicts the Bible way too much. Now that I'm no longer involved and have studied it from the other side I can see that it's a house of cards built on out context texts and inferences. Look at the "TULIP" there isn't a verse of Scripture that states plainly any of those five points. It's all by way of inference.
     
Loading...