the importance of Virginity?

[Chajara]

TBH,

It's just not the type of woman I'd want to spend my life with.

Why?

Take a look at this thread.... people in there bragging about having sex with like 30-75 partners before they turned 30....

LoveShack.org Community Forums

So pardon me if I feel differently about this issue.

Why is 30-75 partners before they turned 30 bad?

No, seriously. I'm not looking for a "Well if you have to ask you wouldn't understand anyway" answer here. I'm genuinely curious as to what your rationale is, in your own words. In YOUR OWN words, I said, not what society has told you. Think hard before you answer, it's often harder to distinguish between the two than you'd think.

 

[Mling]

TBH,
Haven't really heard much talk like that.
In no way was I condoning people talking that way about another person.

Then why'dja bring it up? Were you making the point that the guys talking that way were wrong?

Nope, you were using the unquestioned assumption that they were right in order to make the point that women shouldn't have sex too often because it made them less valuable people. You even used those exact words "lessens their value as a person."

Don't bother trying to backpedal--your point was obvious.

However, it does say something about a woman (and man, for that matter ) if they like have sex with everyone they date....

No, it doesn't. It says absolutely nothing about those people at all. It says only that the people making those comments are jerks who treat people badly. You really shouldn't try to backpedal, but if you're going to, you reallyshouldn't follow it up by forward-pedaling right back to where you started.

If I dated a woman like that, really, I wouldn't throw rocks at her.

Why would you point out that you wouldn't abuse your partner? That should be a given.

It's just not the type of woman I'd want to spend my life with.

You're free to make that choice, but don't project it onto everybody else, or think it reflects on anybody but you.

Let's not hurl rape accusations here. They don't fit.

"Rape culture" is not about the act of rape itself. I'm not accusing anybody of rape. "Rape culture" describes the common acts and attitudes that seem minor in and of themselves, but lead people to think that rape is ok.

Encouraging people to think that if women make certain choices, it's inevitable that they'll be abused, and that's just a fact of life to be accepted, is a very strong component of rape culture.

Take a look at this thread.... people in there bragging about having sex with like 30-75 partners before they turned 30....

LoveShack.org Community Forums

So pardon me if I feel differently about this issue.

I don't really care about them. They have their own set of issues (which are very similar to yours, actually), and that mindset doesn't represent what I'm talking about.

Do you see any other option, then "have little to no sex, in order to keep it special" and "have as much sex as possible, with everybody you meet"?

 

[JustMeSee]

Cars diminish in value because they wear out. Are you saying your wife's or husband's "value" diminishes when you have sex with them because they "wear out?" It's this kind of twisted morality and warped logic that allows so many people to commit such atrocities in the names of their religions.

True. I don't think that way, but I get the impression others do. It is helpful when your partner knows what she/he is doing.

(Debating about changing that post.)

 

[Belk]

TBH,
Haven't really heard much talk like that.
In no way was I condoning people talking that way about another person.

However, it does say something about a woman (and man, for that matter ) if they like have sex with everyone they date....

OK. What exactly do you think it says?

If I dated a woman like that, really, I wouldn't throw rocks at her.
It's just not the type of woman I'd want to spend my life with.

So not wanting to have a lifelong commitment with any given person is an issue? I have known lots of people who I have no desire to live the rest of my life with. In fact, I would be so bold as to say the vast majority I have no desire to spend my life with. Does not mean I viewed them as less of a person because of it.

Let's not hurl rape accusations here. They don't fit.




Take a look at this thread.... people in there bragging about having sex with like 30-75 partners before they turned 30....

LoveShack.org Community Forums

I'm sorry, was this supposed to be evidence of something? Because the only thing I am getting from this is that you feel this is somehow wrong. Why is having multiple sexual partners wrong?

So pardon me if I feel differently about this issue.

Feel differently all you want, you need no pardon from me. What I am trying to do is have a rational discussion on the reasons you feel differently and hoping that by examining the underlying assumptions you will find that they are baseless. If you do not feel they are baseless please feel free to expound upon them.

 

[quatona]

However, it does say something about a woman (and man, for that matter ) if they like have sex with everyone they date....

So what does it say about them?

 

[RoadWarrior]

So what does it say about them?

To me it says they are only enjoying the physical gratification and not taking the time to explore the deeper emotional and spiritual sharing which comes from knowing a person well. While I think it is entirely possible for a person to have a deep, caring, emotional/spiritual/physical relationship with more than one person, it doesn't seem possible to do so in a string of one-night stands.

 

[Larry Mondello]

Originally Posted by groups postings

Take a look at this thread.... people in there bragging about having sex with like 30-75 partners before they turned 30....

LoveShack.org Community Forums

So pardon me if I feel differently about this issue.
​

Why is 30-75 partners before they turned 30 bad?

You seriously need an answer to that?

30 sexual partners before someone turns 30?
What's that, 2 partners a year 15-30, or 3 partners 20-30?

So every couple of months, a guy/gal hops into bed with another partner?
Just doesn't seem responsible, IMO.

 

[quatona]

To me it says they are only enjoying the physical gratification and not taking the time to explore the deeper emotional and spiritual sharing which comes from knowing a person well. While I think it is entirely possible for a person to have a deep, caring, emotional/spiritual/physical relationship with more than one person, it doesn't seem possible to do so in a string of one-night stands.

IOW it tells us more about your expectations, values, standards, preconceptions than it tells us about the person.

 

[Larry Mondello]

Now I do agree there is an issue if a woman is having sex because of low self esteem or some other issue it is a bad situation but I see no reason why a woman should be valued less simply because she enjoys having sex with multiple people.

Why's the reason important here?

So what if someone has emotional or self esteem issues or if they're just irresponsible. Doesn't seem important.

For argument's sake only, and not relating this subject to crime, but so what if someone who robs convenience stores has "self esteem" issues. He's still a criminal.

I think part of the problem is people keep seeing sex as some sort of limited resource.

If you love multiple people does it make your love less valuable?

Not necessarily, but it does tend to make things more "sticky" when one partner "compares" him/herself to the other's multiple partners.

Am not saying these kind of people are "used," worthless or have no value, as we are not God and not their ultimate judge, but many who live more responsible lifestyles in terms of dating and sex wouldn't be attracted to such a person, one whose obviously or outwardly highly sexual, going from partner to partner.

Now, if a woman I was seriously dating told me about her promiscuous past, doesn't necessarily mean I'd dump her over that nor enjoy a loving relationship with her.
People do change and a couple can enjoy life together, as it's the person that matters, not necessarily their past...

Personally know a Christian lady who dated a "Bad Boy." He partied heavily and likely had a lot of sex, until he met her, an obvious Christian woman.
He saw something in her and changed his life, so he was the "high number" partner marrying a virgin Christian woman. She likely saw something in him as well...

TBH, would have preferred not to have to "explain" my past sexual encounters (can count them on one hand) to my future spouse and would've loved it if both of us were virgins.
Unlike someone else I dated, she wasn't judgmental and I didn't have any "problem" with her losing her virginity to a guy she dated and later got engaged to ( her only sexual partner ) years before we met.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

You seriously need an answer to that?

30 sexual partners before someone turns 30?
What's that, 2 partners a year 15-30, or 3 partners 20-30?

So every couple of months, a guy/gal hops into bed with another partner?
Just doesn't seem responsible, IMO.

And why isn't that responsible? If both make sure they have safe sex, what irresponsibility is there?

 

[Belk]

Why's the reason important here?

So what if someone has emotional or self esteem issues or if they're just irresponsible. Doesn't seem important.

For argument's sake only, and not relating this subject to crime, but so what if someone who robs convenience stores has "self esteem" issues. He's still a criminal.

Seems very important to me. The reason I see it as important is the matter of someone being hurt. Hurting others or yourself is unethical to my mind. In the case of woman having sex it is an issue of self harm. I see no harm being done to either party when they are having consensual sex. In fact it seems it can be a large positive to share love and physical intimacy with people.

In your criminal analogy our laws are almost entirely based on intent. If you went to a store and stuck a candy bar in your pocket as you were picking up other things and walked out forgetting to pay for it most would not consider you a criminal. If you went to the store with the specific purpose of taking a candy bar without paying for it you would be.

Not necessarily, but it does tend to make things more "sticky" when one partner "compares" him/herself to the other's multiple partners.

Not in my experience. My wife only had 3-4 partners before she met me where I had an order of magnitude more. Has not caused us any issues.

Am not saying these kind of people are "used," worthless or have no value, as we are not God and not their ultimate judge, but many who live more responsible lifestyles in terms of dating and sex wouldn't be attracted to such a person, one whose obviously or outwardly highly sexual, going from partner to partner.

And there are many who would. Just because some people are not compatible or comfortable with others peoples choices do not make those choices bad.

Now, if a woman I was seriously dating told me about her promiscuous past, doesn't necessarily mean I'd dump her over that nor enjoy a loving relationship with her.
People do change and a couple can enjoy life together, as it's the person that matters, not necessarily their past...

Why should they change? If the person matters why is how they express their sexuality an issue?

Personally know a Christian lady who dated a "Bad Boy." He partied heavily and likely had a lot of sex, until he met her, an obvious Christian woman.
He saw something in her and changed his life, so he was the "high number" partner marrying a virgin Christian woman. She likely saw something in him as well...

Good for them. I'm glad it worked out.

TBH, would have preferred not to have to "explain" my past sexual encounters (can count them on one hand) to my future spouse and would've loved it if both of us were virgins.
Unlike someone else I dated, she wasn't judgmental and I didn't have any "problem" with her losing her virginity to a guy she dated and later got engaged to ( her only sexual partner ) years before we met.

Why was it an issue for you to "explain" your sexual past? Seems to me that should be a normal part of any healthy relationship.

So I notice that nowhere in here did you explain why you feel being sexual with multiple people is an issue. Why is that? The only thing you have explained is that you feel it is somehow irresponsible. How is it irresponsible? Why do you feel people should not have sex with multiple partners? Those are the questions I am trying to get answers for. You seem to feel that it is an issue but so far I have not heard any specific reason for why you feel this.

 

[RoadWarrior]

IOW it tells us more about your expectations, values, standards, preconceptions than it tells us about the person.

Is there a difference between ones values, standards, preconceptions, etc and the person themselves?

 

[Verv]

Cars diminish in value because they wear out. Are you saying your wife's or husband's "value" diminishes when you have sex with them because they "wear out?" It's this kind of twisted morality and warped logic that allows so many people to commit such atrocities in the names of their religions.

Even if a car doesn't have that much mileage and is in perfect condition, being able to say, "I bought this brand new, and it's only ever been mine," has an intrinsic value.

But yes -- certainly people who have had loose sexual histories lose an amount of their value if they are unrepentant and happily living in sin. To be satisfied and happy with sinful existence is wrong, whether it is alcoholism or excessive gambling, etc. and not believing that you are doing something wrong when it has negative effects for society.

Now, don't twist my words. I am not saying that a person who is a thief or a murderer is on the same level as a person who engages in routine casual sex. Of course, it is their personal choice to engage in this...

But I have a different value system. I do not actively judge these people and yell at them on the street or disrupt them... I merely choose to not have one as a girlfriend. I respect their right to 'independent, free life' in their country...

And those people sometimes call Christians and other belivers "weak minded," or "following some outdated morality and philosophy." They are the type that would think my girlfriend "unliberated" and not part of their agenda of making the world a better place...

But I am ready for you to claim that me having an opinion that is not flattering of them is somehow worse.

 

[Verv]

Is there a difference between ones values, standards, preconceptions, etc and the person themselves?

As these things are part of a person's life... The answer is... Somewhat. But... Not so much.

People are sometimes admired for superficial reasons (great athletes, movie stars) and some people are then admired for good reasons (not only are they famous but they are charitable, well composed, good hearted). Other famous people do some bad behavior and thus are criticized...

Every person has many dimensions, and perhaps the dimension we care about most for a person is their actions and the values that they espouse to have. We are all social animals and in our societies we like to have some sort of... Good life through harmony, cooperation and liberty.

 

[RoadWarrior]

As these things are part of a person's life... The answer is... Somewhat. But... Not so much.

People are sometimes admired for superficial reasons (great athletes, movie stars) and some people are then admired for good reasons (not only are they famous but they are charitable, well composed, good hearted). Other famous people do some bad behavior and thus are criticized...

Agreed people can be admired for superficial reasons, but the traits you previously mentioned (values, standards, preconceptions) go directly to a person's character, integrity and ethics. Superficial reasons like how many baskets or base hits a person makes per game or how much money they make have little to nothing to do with who they are as a person. Their "values, standards, preconceptions" are part of their character, integrity and ethic and those traits go directly to who they are.

In line with current topic, I'd admire a person more if they "wanted to save themselves for marriage" than I'd admire someone who continually has one night stands (i.e. hedonist) or attacks or ridicules those who seek a stronger spiritual and emotional bond with those whom they share a bed. Of course, that says something about my "values, standards, preconceptions".

 

[quatona]

Is there a difference between ones values, standards, preconceptions, etc and the person themselves?

I´ll repeat my statement with the important word in bold and a clarifying addition:

IOW it tells us more about your expectations, values, standards, preconceptions than it tells us about the person (you are talking about).

Hope that helps.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Well, that helps explain your position. Thanks. Obviously I agree since that is also inline with my previous statements. However, disagreed on your premise that my initial statement only says something about me.

To me it says they are only enjoying the physical gratification and not taking the time to explore the deeper emotional and spiritual sharing which comes from knowing a person well. While I think it is entirely possible for a person to have a deep, caring, emotional/spiritual/physical relationship with more than one person, it doesn't seem possible to do so in a string of one-night stands.

 

[Larry Mondello]

I'd admire a person more if they "wanted to save themselves for marriage" than I'd admire someone who continually has one night stands (i.e. hedonist) or attacks or ridicules those who seek a stronger spiritual and emotional bond with those whom they share a bed. Of course, that says something about my "values, standards, preconceptions".

Exactly.

While I don't put virgins on a pedestal, or think they have superhuman powers (they're humans just like us and may not have had opportunities), I do think it's something to be admired and shows character, particularly as they get older.

Those who wait until marriage or engagement before engaging in intimate acts, for moral, religious or practical reasons, I truly respect those. And wish I had waited.

Read on these boards, many men in their 20s think they're somehow "odd" because they haven't taken advantage of a woman yet.

So..... bec. I had sex too early @17.... me having the "I'VE HAD SEX" membership card makes me a better dating prospect?

There are many misconceptions out there:

Virgins aren't necessarily better than non-virgins.
Those who have had sex aren't AUTOMATICALLY superior to the virgins.

It's all a matter of opportunities and life choices .... and the kind of person one is.

 

[pl0x]

Read on these boards, many men in their 20s think they're somehow "odd" because they haven't taken advantage of a woman yet.

Is this what sex means to you?... Men taking "advantage" of women?

 

[Larry Mondello]

Originally Posted by groups postings

Read on these boards, many men in their 20s think they're somehow "odd" because they haven't taken advantage of a woman yet.
​

Is this what sex means to you?... Men taking "advantage" of women?

In a lot of cases, yes.

This kind of thing breaks my heart, to know how misled some Christian women can be....

Pity sex - Page 16 - LoveShack.org Community Forums

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlumPrincess
you have never been able to attract the women you want. Nice women don't like jerks, no matter how hot they are. What's so difficult to understand about it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AIDsFan1488
Actually some of them were "nice girls".

One girl who I deflowered was really sweet and innocent and the only girl around my age I know who went to church every sunday. Not brilliant, but she wasn't dumb either.

She threw her virginity away on me instead of all her male church-going Christian friends who were all in love with her,
I never called her back once I got what I wanted. .

That guy was a first-class jerk, taking away a Christian woman's virginity like it was all a game.
That terrible decision was all on that woman, and she knew right from wrong to have a one-night-stand with such a guy, but bet she had BIG regrets giving herself to a player like that, who now is whining about all his regrets.....

Wonder how her church-going "Good Guys" ( like I considered myself when I was single ) look in her eyes now ????