The "holy place" Abomination of Desolation

Douggg · Apr 11, 2018

CassiusCritzer said:
Jesus accomplished it all. This is why animal sacrifices are no longer needed. God will NOT recognize new animal sacrifices. God will not send his Presence to a new reconstructed holy of holies. If God did, it would negate the Atonement on the cross of Yeshua ha Mashiach!

It is not a matter of theology. It is a matter of what will take place.

Douggg · Apr 11, 2018

CassiusCritzer said:
Let's clear up some confusion, shall we?

Let's compare the religion of the 12 Tribes of the Northern Kingdom ten tribes of Israel and the Tribe of Judah that made up Judea.

They believed in a literal interpretation of the Torah and the Prophets.
The Ten Commandments are the highest moral absolutes.

They sacrificed animals on altars when they had no Temple and sacrificed animals within the Temple of Solomon.

Adult male converts got circumcized by fully removing the foreskin.

The only true religion was the Israelite religion. Everything else was heresy.

Converts from outside the tribes were ill thought of but recognized.

Modern day Judaism
The Torah is a collection of myths not literal.
The Talmud is treated higher in authority to the Talmud.
The Ten Commandments are suggestions and not moral absolutes.
There are many was to Heaven.
The 12 Tribes died out.
Only the Cohen can sort of trace their ancestry.
Most are Khazars and Ashkenazi.
Adult male converts only receive a pinprick instead of circumcision.
Most are atheistss ie only ethnically connected.
Since the 2nd Temple was destroyed, there are no animal sacrifices.

In 1948, the UN created the state of Israel deeply upseting the Hassidic Jews and many Orthodox Jews.

How are the two groups the same????

Do you believe the Church has become Israel? If so, you are going to interpret the end times prophecies in a manner to defend that theological position - Reform theology. It is a failed theology, that part of it - but them who hold it can not come to grips with reality that Israel is a nation again - legitimate to bible prophecy - and the whole world can see.

Regarding them in Israel now, God knows who are the Jews or not. And in Ezekiel 37 part of those prophecies have been fulfilled, that of the two sticks joined back together to form one nation of Israel again.

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CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

The Bible says that the believers in Jesus Christ are children of Abraham.

The Bible says if you reject Jesus you have neither Jesus nor YHWH.

Whatever you label that, is what I believe.

The Bible says that circumcision is the mark of the old covenant. And it says animal sacrifice to be forgiven of sins.

The Bible says that Jesus started a new covenant and that being saved by being born again and being baptized in water is the new covenant. And it says in no more animal sacrifices are needed since Jesus accomplished it all.

And I have been saved since I was five years old and baptized publically by immnersion and now am very old. Soon you might say so old as to be venerable

CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

See Galatians 3

1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?a 4Have you experiencedb so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?6So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”c

7Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”d 9So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”f 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”h 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

The Law and the Promise

15Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”i meaning one person, who is Christ. 17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

Also read Romans 9
1I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised!a Amen.

God’s Sovereign Choice

6It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”b 8In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.9For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”c

10Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”d 13Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”e

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,

and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”f

CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. And Christians ARE Children of Abraham and we declare Jesus is the Christ thus we have Jesus and God!

You should pray about this as in Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 BOTH say those who claim to be Jews who are NOT.

CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

Beck is rather ridiculous and a Mormon. But his guests are correct about the Antichrist and the Mahdi.

Douggg · Apr 11, 2018

CassiusCritzer said:
Also read Romans 9
1I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised!a Amen.

God’s Sovereign Choice

6It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”b 8In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.9For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”c

10Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”d 13Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”e

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,

and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”f

The way of Salvation by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, which we are saved by grace and not by works is not what is in question. It is the interpretation that the Church is now Israel that is flawed.

CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

Jesus strongly condemns how the religion of the Israelites perversely became attached to rabbinic teaching ie Talmud.

John 8
39“Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you wouldc do what Abraham did. 40As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?47Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

The same condemnation of the scribes using the Talmud is found in Matthew 23. All of modern Judaism is based upon the Talmud and Zohar!
◄ Matthew 23 ►
New International Version
A Warning Against Hypocrisy

1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5“Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteriesa wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

Seven Woes on the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees

13“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.[14]b

15“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

16“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.21And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’c ”

CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

It is not an error that devout Christians are Children of Abraham. Therefore that is why Abraham in Genesis 3 is a father of many nations NOT just Israel. I am an Israelite by virtue of believing Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

Douggg · Apr 11, 2018

CassiusCritzer said:
Beck is rather ridiculous and a Mormon. But his guests are correct about the Antichrist and the Mahdi.

I watched the video and the muslim guest said the hadiths that make all of the Mahdi prophecies that people like Joel Richardson use to project the Mahdi to be the Antichrist - are garbage (my paraphrasing).

They are garbage anyway, but Joel Richardson doesn't understand the actually bible prophecies himself - so he makes a multitude of fundamental errors. If Joel Richardson and Glenn Beck understood the bible prophecies correctly - they would eliminate the notion of muslim Mahdi Antichrist fulfillment.

1. the Antichrist has to be a Jew.
2. the confirmation of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is not a peace treaty, but is found in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 as a requirement Moses made of all future leaders of Israel to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on the 7 year shmita cycle.
3. Gog/Magog takes place before the 7 years begin and essentially ends Islam the religion.
4. The beast and his image are worshiped as God in Revelation 13, for 42 months. The Mahdi is not worshiped as God in their theology.

Douggg · Apr 11, 2018

CassiusCritzer said:
It is not an error that devout Christians are Children of Abraham. Therefore that is why Abraham in Genesis 3 is a father of many nations NOT just Israel. I am an Israelite by virtue of believing Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

Well, I am not. And have no desire to be. 2Corinthians5:17.

Revelation 7:
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Handmaid for Jesus · Apr 11, 2018

Douggg said:
What cause the image to come alive and speak?

Artificial Intelligence.

CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

I don't think the Scripture can be any more clear. What people label as replacement theology is mostly correct based on Scripture

There is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ. I don't care what John Hagee says. He says that Jews have a special covenant and therefore he doesn't witness to Jews. He says the Messiah was not for Christians which I find shocking.

You should research how horrible vile malevolent things are in the Talmud where they admit they killed Yeshua, that his mother was a prostitute, his true father was a Roman soldier, he was a pagan magician, was a servant of the devil, and not boils in human waste eternally. It is sickening.

That is so ungodly that it is the words of Lucifer.

CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

What the Muslim guest says is that the Hadith for the Mahdi are questionable and should be tossed out. Yet they are NOT but fervently believed by Shia and thus the people in Turkey and Iran are trying to get the Mahdi to appear. And they claim he lives now in Turkey and is old enough to start a war with Israel. And they are trying to get Muslim men to join the military and irregulars to fight for the Mahdi. You should be concerned.

CassiusCritzer · Apr 11, 2018

2 Corinthians 5:17 is this.
17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:a The old has gone, the new is here!
Is that what you meant because it has nothing to do with what I wrote about being a child of Abraham? Spiritually we are Israelites even more than most members of Judaism. Technically speaking they are nothing like Biblical Jews.

David Kent · Apr 11, 2018

CassiusCritzer said:
Let me make a brief comment first my brother or sister in Christ. If you write out the whole name of the book, then it will hyperlink. That is a far better way that I have noticed.

Jesus died on the cross and accomplished it all. The second he did, the veil was torn and the Presence of YHWH left. That means the 2nd Temple was no longer holy. Otherwise what Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10 state is a lie. That would mean that Jesus did not accomplish it all.

That means that the destruction of the 2nd Temple is NOT the Abomination of Desolation.

First Josepheus is a Jew by the Biblical definition ie from the Southern Kingdom of Judea and hence of the Tribe of Judah. According to 1 John 2 he is an antichrist because whoever denies that Jesus is the Messiah is an antichrist. And whoever denies Jesus has neither Jesus nor YHWH.
When Jesus accomplished it all, every animal sacrifce after was not recognized by YHWH. If the Presence is gone due to Jesus accomplishing it all according to Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10 , then even if every procedure was perfectly done, the Presence of YHWH would not be there. Thus the 3rd Temple might be constructed but never be holy.

Actually if you read the Autobiography of Josephus you will find that he is a priest, a descendant of Mathias.

seventysevens · Apr 11, 2018

Douggg said:
the Antichrist has to be a Jew.

Perhaps , perhaps not , as there are Jews that do not follow Judaism nor Christianity , they can be atheists or practice islam , since a muslim can convince a nation that he is Christian , a Jew can also practice islam and deceive people into believing he is a Jew at heart when he isn't - since that person will be the Beast there are more possibilities than if he wasn't the beast - sometimes what looks good on paper fails in the real world

David Kent · Apr 11, 2018

Douggg said:
2 Corinthians 5:17.

The "holy place" Abomination of Desolation

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