The Holocaust: Was it the wrath and judgment of God?

[Achilles6129]

This thread is to discuss a relatively controversial subject: whether or not the Holocaust was the wrath and judgment of God upon the Jews. The question is a controversial one. Going into Scripture, we find examples of what God will do to the Jews if they disobey his commands:

"“‘And I will heap disasters upon them; I will spend my arrows on them; 24 they shall be wasted with hunger, and devoured by plague and poisonous pestilence; I will send the teeth of beasts against them, with the venom of things that crawl in the dust. 25 Outdoors the sword shall bereave, and indoors terror, for young man and woman alike, the nursing child with the man of gray hairs." Deut. 32:23-25 (ESV)

We clearly see in Scripture that God is not a God who is incompatible with a Holocaust. The main argument is actually not a Biblical one but rather a moral one: any God who would punish someone with something like the Holocaust is unjust and cruel. This is particularly true when considering the fact that many children died in the Holocaust and they could not have been in conscious rebellion against God.

I guess I could simplify this thread into three questions:

1) Do you believe that the Holocaust is incompatible with the revealed Scripture of the Judaeo-Christian God?

2) Do you believe that any God who would use the Holocaust as punishment is cruel?

3) Is it possible that the Holocaust was the wrath and judgment of God?

I'll leave the rest open. Thoughts?

 

[ViaCrucis]

No, the Holocaust was not God's wrath or judgment.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Julie.S]

No it was done by humans to other humans.

 

[Achilles6129]

I see. And how are you both certain of this?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Because our God isn't a monster.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Cimorene]

So are we supposed to think that 9/11 & the Oklahoma bombing were the wrath & judgment of God against Americans? Smh.

 

[Julie.S]

I see. And how are you both certain of this?

Well for one I have a minor in history. In all the time I was lectured on WW2 It was people hurting other people and listening to a dictator.

 

[Achilles6129]

So what are we to make of OT passages and passages in the book of Revelation where "Holocausts" happen and they are the wrath and judgment of God?

 

[Achilles6129]

So are we supposed to think that 9/11 & the Oklahoma bombing were the wrath & judgment of God against Americans? Smh.

I would say that the best we can say with any event is that we simply don't know. But to say with certainty one way or the other (unless clearly spoken of in Scripture) is an overstretch, in my opinion.

 

[Der Alte]

So what are we to make of OT passages and passages in the book of Revelation where "Holocausts" happen and they are the wrath and judgment of God?

If the holocaust, שואה shoah in Hebrew, was truly the fulfillment of prophecy I don't think we would have to be wondering yes or no, Israel would know and the world would know from them.

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.​

 

[Julie.S]

So what are we to make of OT passages and passages in the book of Revelation where "Holocausts" happen and they are the wrath and judgment of God?

That has nothing to do with all Holocausts. There have been mass killings that I think some people don't even know about.

 

[Julie.S]

I'm going to be rather honest.

I know someone who went through the Holocaust and saw their family be taken away. I might even have family who got killed in it.

To see what was said in the beginning here actually hurts a little. No one who went through that deserved what happened. Those people got treated in ways no one should be ever.

This was not from God this was from a twisted human mind that people decided to follow for some reason.

Now I'm done.

I hope you all have a good day.

 

[orangeness365]

I think I have heard it argued that it is a fulfillment of Ezekiel 37, and the valley of dry bones. The Jews were being thrown into the holocaust, and that was like their graves that they came out of.

 

[Julie.S]

I think I have heard it argued that it is a fulfillment of Ezekiel 37, and the valley of dry bones. The Jews were being thrown into the holocaust, and that was like their graves that they came out of.

The only problem with that is this. The Holocaust was not all Jewish people. It was enemy soldiers who where also killed. It was innocent families who got caught up in it. The Jews suffered a lot and probably the most that's fact we know that happened but its not the only group who suffered.

According to this site.
It affected the "Jews, Roma, black Germans, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses and the mentally and physically disabled." There are more also I am sure but that's what that one site has listed.

Wikipedia also has this page.

 

[Achilles6129]

That has nothing to do with all Holocausts. There have been mass killings that I think some people don't even know about.

How can you possibly know for certain what is and isn't God's wrath and judgment?

 

[Julie.S]

How can you possibly know for certain what is and isn't God's wrath and judgment?

I can't but I see no divine intervention in what happened. Why would God let people burn to death in an oven? Innocent children died this is not something to joke about.

 

[Achilles6129]

I'm going to be rather honest.

I know someone who went through the Holocaust and saw their family be taken away. I might even have family who got killed in it.

To see what was said in the beginning here actually hurts a little. No one who went through that deserved what happened. Those people got treated in ways no one should be ever.

This was not from God this was from a twisted human mind that people decided to follow for some reason.

Now I'm done.

I hope you all have a good day.

Supposing that the Holocaust was not the wrath and judgment of God, let me ask you this: why would God allow the Holocaust, and what does that say about his nature and His character?

 

[ml5363]

That is the million dollar question...why does he allow any of the crazy gonna on in todays world...I think society made the bed so now we gonna lie in it

 

[Julie.S]

Supposing that the Holocaust was not the wrath and judgment of God, let me ask you this: why would God allow the Holocaust, and what does that say about his nature and His character?

I believe God does not always put a stop to things to be honest. God is there but there is no reason that God has to intervene. Humans caused the Holocaust and humans put an end to it. Perhaps it was a test for us. That's the best I have at the moment.

 

[orangeness365]

The only problem with that is this. The Holocaust was not all Jewish people. It was enemy soldiers who where also killed. It was innocent families who got caught up in it. The Jews suffered a lot and probably the most that's fact we know that happened but its not the only group who suffered.

According to this site.
It affected the "Jews, Roma, black Germans, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses and the mentally and physically disabled." There are more also I am sure but that's what that one site has listed.

Wikipedia also has this page.

True, the Holocaust happened to more than just the Jews. The Bible's focus for the most part is the Jews. Ezekiel 37 is not about God's wrath against the Jews or something like that. It is about the rebirth of Israel as a nation. The dry bones basically say that they have no hope, and that they are cut off, but then God responds, saying that He will put His spirit in them, and they will live, and that they will settle in their own land, and then they will know that God has restored them to their homeland.