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the heavenly sanctuary doctrine (and the sabbath)

VictorC

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hello Victor,

We've had lots of discussion on CARM, but what really is the point of what you are saying?

Marc
I was specific in my first post written in this thread.
  • Adventism attributes an origin for the sabbath in deference to Scripture's testimony of it.
  • Adventism postulates an apology for an event in 1844 that negates Scripture's testimony describing a completed and sufficient atonement that is not to be added to.
I would submit that your intention is to toe the Adventist party line, and to do so you chose to write a couple of books on these subjects without taking the time to learn the subject material.

Here is that first post I referred to, wherein I equated Adventism's Sanctuary Doctrine with Purgatory, both extra-Biblical doctrines invented to address transgressions that theological errors have concluded are not redeemed as stated by Hebrews 9:15:
VictorC said:
In my book on Nehemiah, one of the chapters is devoted to this whole question of the origin of the Sabbath.

One has to look at when the Sabbath was sanctified (Gen. 2:2-3) and when the weekly cycle began.
When we look at Genesis 2:2-3, we find the origin of God's "My rest" that Hebrews 4 speaks of so eloquently. As Hebrews reminds us, this rest was a promise yet to be attained by the people who were already observing the sabbath.

1 ¶ Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, `They shall not enter My rest,'" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";
5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.


"That" rest speaks of an eternal rest the sabbath never provided, and it is that rest "we who have believed do enter", which is delineated from the sabbath that Jesus clearly stated was "made for man" in Mark 2:27.

Hebrews 4:4 is a direct quote from Genesis 2:2.
The seventh day was God's rest, and not man's rest. The sabbath didn't exist until it was ordained thousands of years later. Moreover, the rest documented on the seventh day never repeated nor ended. The sabbath repeated every week, and was a mere shadow of God's rest that was not attained by the sabbath: "a promise remains of entering His rest", a comment directed to those who already had the sabbath.
2. yes, the levitical type foreshadowed this defilement, when either the blood was transferred to the sanctuary or the flesh eaten by the priest Lev. 10:18. The cleansing is based on the blood of the Lord's goat which represents Christ's blood. The cleansing is happening now, and when it is complete, Christ will return.
The blood of the offering did not defile the sanctuary, and Hebrews 9:22 specifies that the blood was the agent of cleansing: "according to the law almost all things are purified with blood".

Moreover, the entire narrative of Hebrews 9-10 presents the rites in the heavenly sanctuary in the past tense, including the entrance into the Holiest of Holies (or MHP, "most holy place"), showing that the sanctuary rites were completed before this epistle was written. This is plainly evident in Hebrews 9:

24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another----
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.


BTW, I already know that Hebrews 9:25 refers to the plural ta hagia that renders "Holy Places" as the "Most Holy Place" in this translation (NKJV). It was the annual rite of atonement provided by the earthly high priest that Jesus followed, which was the only time the high priest entered into the Holy Places in the plural - both the HP and MHP. This entrance is documented as a completed act.

Christ was offered once, and atonement is not a continued rite. It exists only as a component of the law ordained under the first covenant, and does not exist in the new covenant at all. As Hebrews 9:15 states concerning this: And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. In order to assert that atonement is a process continuing process ("the cleansing is happening now", quoting Marc Rasell), one needs also reject the new covenant in order to claim a rite authorized only under the first covenant is continuing, as the two covenants are not compatible and cannot coexist: "He takes away the first that He may establish the second" (Hebrews 10:9).

SDA Fundamental Belief #9 refers to Christ's "perfect atonement", and then SDA Fundamental Belief #24 contradicts it when it asserts that 1844 introduced a "second and final phase of atonement". Adventism doesn't accept a completed and sufficient "perfect atonement", and that is the fundamental heresy surrounding 1844. It is a theological error of epic proportions, and yet 1844 remains the crux of Adventism, as Ellen White described it as the "foundation and central pillar of the Advent faith":

The scripture which above all others had been both the foundation and central pillar of the Advent faith was the declaration, "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." [DAN. 8:14.] These had been familiar words to all believers in the Lord's soon coming. By the lips of thousands was this prophecy joyfully repeated as the watchword of their faith. All felt that upon the events therein brought to view depended their brightest expectations and most cherished hopes. These prophetic days had been shown to terminate in the autumn of 1844. In common with the rest of the Christian world, Adventists then held that the earth, or some portion of it, was the sanctuary, and that the cleansing of the sanctuary was the purification of the earth by the fires of the last great day. This they understood would take place at the second coming of Christ. Hence the conclusion that Christ would return to the earth in 1844. {4SP 258.1}

Contrary to Ellen's claim, this isn't a belief that Adventism shares "In common with the rest of the Christian world". The rest of the Christian world accepts the narrative presented in the Bible describing a completed atonement that will never be repeated; the heavenly sanctuary has already been cleansed according to a rite never to be repeated.

This is the Adventist rendition of purgatory: their eschatology and soteriology does not accept a completed atonement that has reconciled us to God once and for all. Atonement isn't perfect in their theological outlook.
 
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tall73

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Hebrews 6:19-20 portrays the high priest entering the presence of God, this is just used as a symbol of Christ entering the presence of God at His ascension. This does not tell us where exactly Christ is inside the heavenly temple, unless you assume the heavenly is a carbon copy of the earthly. Clearly there are some differences which Paul speaks about.

Marc

Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


The symbol of the earthly sanctuary indicates the reality extending to the equivalent. Jesus is the forerunner and did go into the presence of God as the high priest went in once per year.

Here are other texts that speak of this entrance. And they describe also the cleansing that Jesus did of sin, which was the fulfillment of the day of atonement type.


Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high


Jesus made purification for sins, the same root word as cleansing in chapter 9, speaking of the cleansing of the heavenly things.

It was completed by the time Jesus sat down.
Heb 4:14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.


From the time of Jesus' ascension people could come boldly to the throne of grace, just as the high priest came to the mercy seat. The mercy seat is where God would meet with the high priest, and where the priest would approach when seeking mercy for the people. All of the sanctuary is considered in God's presence, but He specifically tells them where He will meet with them and where His manifest presence would be, and it was in the second compartment, above the mercy seat.

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Ex 25:21 And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the testimony that I shall give you.
22 There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are on the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you about all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.


Ex 30:6 And you shall put it in front of the veil that is above the ark of the testimony, in front of the mercy seat that is above the testimony, where I will meet with you.

Lev 16:2 And the LORD said to Moses, "Tell Aaron your brother not to come at any time into the Holy Place inside the veil, before the mercy seat that is on the ark, so that he may not die. For I will appear in the cloud over the mercy seat.

Num 7:89 And when Moses went into the tent of meeting to speak with the LORD, he heard the voice speaking to him from above the mercy seat that was on the ark of the testimony, from between the two cherubim; and it spoke to him.

Jdg 20:27 And the people of Israel inquired of the LORD (for the ark of the covenant of God was there in those days.

1Sa 4:4 So the people sent to Shiloh and brought from there the ark of the covenant of the LORD of hosts, who is enthroned on the cherubim. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, were there with the ark of the covenant of God.

2Sa 6:2 And David arose and went with all the people who were with him from Baale-judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the name of the LORD of hosts who sits enthroned on the cherubim.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

More texts that speak about sitting at the right hand of God, who as we just saw, manifested His presence in the second compartment in the earthly.


Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens

Heb 10:11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
Heb 10:12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
Heb 10:13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.
Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.



Heb 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.



Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)
Heb 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Jesus entered once for all into the holy places, the whole sanctuary. Just as the sacrifice was "once for all" so the entry into God's presence through the sanctuary was "once for all" and he is now seen as being in God's presence.

You can't have a dual fulfillment of "once for all."

Heb 9:23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.
Heb 9:25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,

In this text we have the entry described in fulfillment of the cleansing of the heavenly things, and it is directly compared to the entry of the earthly high priest with blood on the yearly day of atonement entry.

Jesus entered now into God's presence in behalf of us, and NOT REPEATEDLY, as the earthly did (every year). His entry was once for all.

So there can be no dual fulfillment of "once for all."

Now there are elements of the Day of Atonement service that are not yet fulfilled, the portion where the high priest would leave the temple for judgment. But the cleansing is already done. Jesus already made purification for sins. He already entered once for all.


Now more important than where He went, though it does not seem unclear, is what He did. If He fulfilled the cleansing portion of the day of atonement, the part that happened in the sanctuary, then there is no dual fulfillment of that.

There remains a judgment. There is no dual fulfillment of the making purification of sins or the cleansing of the heavenly things because they are clearly stated as in the past in the book.



 
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Joe67

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Tall 73,

There is a dual aspect to Leviticus 16.

This same duality is witnessed in the new testament by the apostles that Jesus sent forth in his name.

I do not remember the father's teaching the duality as I went through academy, PUC and the short time spent at the seminary. I am not aware that they are teaching the duality with certainty at this time of development.

Joe
 
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tall73

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Tall 73,

There is a dual aspect to Leviticus 16.

This same duality is witnessed in the new testament by the apostles that Jesus sent forth in his name.

I do not remember the father's teaching the duality as I went through academy, PUC and the short time spent at the seminary. I am not aware that they are teaching the duality with certainty at this time of development.

Joe

Please discuss what you see this duality to be.
 
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mrasell

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So we agree that Jesus fulfilled the symbol of the Day of Atonement entrance into the MHP at His ascension. Do you think that He made another entrance in 1844?

There was a christological fulfillment at his ascension. He did not need to make another entrance in 1844, only move from the holy to most holy place in the heavenly temple.

However, that refers to the second coming and to the final judgment, which is executive, not investigative.

The investigative side is found in Daniel, Hebrews does not elaborate on this aspect although it hints at it in Hebrews 10:28 when he refers to the final judgement:
"28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses."
 
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mrasell

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Victor

There simply is no verse in Hebrews which states that Jesus entered the "hagia hagion" in the heavenly temple. It is based on a false assumption that the heavenly temple is a carbon copy of the earthly one, which contradicts the picture given in Rev. 4-5 of Jesus in the holy place.

Even in the Levitical model, daily atonement took place in the holy place, and only the final cleansing in the most holy place. Forgiveness was granted by the daily rites.

The fact that there is a Christological fulfillment of the Day of Atonement which Hebrews speaks of, does not exhaust the future judgement and eschatalogical fulfillment.
 
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tall73

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I do accept there is a christological fulfillment when Christ entered the holy places of the heavenly temple to inaugurate it.


a. the imagery is not just of inauguration as you already admitted.

b. The inauguration would include entry into the equivalent of both apartments. And it was a once for all entry.
 
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tall73

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There was a christological fulfillment at his ascension. He did not need to make another entrance in 1844, only move from the holy to most holy place in the heavenly temple.

This quote says something different:


Sabbath, March 24th, 1849, we had a sweet, and very interesting meeting with the Brethren at Topsham, Me. The Holy Ghost was poured out upon us, and I was taken off in the Spirit to the City of the living God. There I was shown that the commandments of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, relating to the shut door, could not be separated, and that the time for the commandments of God to shine out, with all their importance, and for God's people to be tried on the Sabbath truth, was when the door was opened in the Most Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary, where the Ark is, containing the ten commandments. This door was not opened, until the mediation of Jesus was finished in the Holy Place of the Sanctuary in 1844. Then, Jesus rose up, and shut the door in the Holy Place, and opened the door in the Most Holy, and passed within the second vail, where he now stands by the Ark; and where the faith of Israel now reaches. {RH, August 1, 1849 par. 2}

This suggests a very specific entrance, opening and shutting of the "door" and a transition of ministry, beginning the day of atonement in 1844.

But that is not what we see in Hebrews. We see the cleansing of the heavenly things already in the first century. We see the entrance into the whole sanctuary from the beginning, compared to the yearly entry of the high priest.
 
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tall73

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There was a christological fulfillment at his ascension. He did not need to make another entrance in 1844, only move from the holy to most holy place in the heavenly temple.

This also shows an entry:

The enemies of the present truth have been trying to open the door of the holy place, that Jesus has shut, and to close the door of the most holy place, which He opened in 1844, where the ark is, containing the two tables of stone on which are written the ten commandments by the finger of Jehovah. {EW 43.1}
 
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tall73

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Evidence that the purification was in the first century:


A. Hebrews 1:3

Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

Jesus sat down after making purification for sins.

Notice in the type the priest in the sanctuary made atonement for the sins of the people:

Lev 16:16 Thus he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleannesses of the people of Israel and because of their transgressions, all their sins. And so he shall do for the tent of meeting, which dwells with them in the midst of their uncleannesses.
Lev 16:17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.

Jesus made purification for sins in the first century before sitting.




B. Now we shall look at the grammar and the arguments made by the author to see if in fact v. 23 refers only to the inauguration.

vs. 23 does not refer just to the inauguration. The verses leading up to verse 23 are doubtless connected to is as we know from the word translated "thus".

Heb 9:23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Heb 9:23 ᾿Ανάγκη οὖν τὰ μὲν ὑποδείγματα τῶν ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς τούτοις καθαρίζεσθαι, αὐτὰ δὲ τὰ ἐπουράνια κρείττοσι θυσίαις παρὰ ταύτας.

The term rendered "thus" here is οὖν. It shows that the statement of the necessity of the cleansing of the heavenly things in verse 23 flows from the preceding argument.

However it is not just the rites of the inauguration in view in the preceding verses, but also mentioned are the red heifer, the ratification of the covenant, and in verse 22, which is the immediate context, we have the "blood rule" stating that almost everything was cleansed with blood in the old covenant.

Heb 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

The "thus" of verse 23 then is summing up the argument for the need for blood cleansing present throughout the various ceremonies in the law.

And just as verse 23 is connected to all the arguments preceding it regarding cleansing it is just as connected to the argument after it as we see another important connecting word showing that the fulfillment of the cleansing is now being spoken of:

Heb 9:23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.
Heb 9:25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,


The word rendered "for" here in verse 24 is γαρ and connects verse 23 to the argument of 24-25 which deals with Christ's entry into God's presence. Therefore the necessity of the cleansing of the heavenly things is directly tied to the appearance of Jesus in God's presence in our behalf.

Verse 24 spells out a couple of things about Jesus' entry:

- Christ has entered NOT into the holy placed made with hands. This negative statement becomes important shortly as it connects verse 24 to 25.

- Christ has entered into the true, heaven itself, to appear in God's presence in our behalf.

Verse 25 continues speaking about this entry, which is part of the argument for the cleansing of the heavenly things.

Again we see an important connecting word.

Here the word is ουδε. Nor yet....

Verse 24 started with a negative statement...Christ entered NOT....

Verse 25 continues with another negative statement regarding Christ's entry:

Nor yet.....

Not only do we have the connecting word ουδε in verse 25 but we have a ινα clause, "in order that."

Nor yet was it in order that.....

Was what in order that?

Nor yet was the entry into God's presence in order that ...He might offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own

The words "nor yet" and "in order that" which begin the verse can only refer back to the event of entry and presentation in God's presence of verse 24. They are connected.

The following Bible versions recognize this connection to the entry in verse v. 24 and add the word "enter" to vs. 25 to clarify that it has reference to the entry of Christ in verse 24:

Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. New International Version

Nor did He [enter into the heavenly sanctuary to] offer Himself regularly again and again, as the high priest enters the [Holy of] Holies every year with blood not his own. Amplified Bible

And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. New Living Translation



Notice the following commentaries which look particularly at the Greek text and which recognize the significance of this combination of ουδε and ινα


The New International Greek Testament Commentary recognizes that the author's "nor yet in order that" is tied to the main clause in verse 24 "for He has not entered..."

The author writes ουδ ινα rather than ουχ ινα because the main clause (ου γαρ...εισηλθεν) is expressed negatively.



"The Interpretation" commentary also notes this:

ου and now ουδε: Christ did "not...nor," etc. Christ did not enter into a mere earthly sanctuary; nor (did he enter heaven) in order to be offering himself often like as the high priest enters into the sanctuary year by year


Commentary on the Epistle to the Hebrews by Franz Delitsch also recognizes the reference to the entry:


V. 25 Nor yet (is he entered in) that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy of holies year by year with alien blood.



Expositor’s Bible Commentary also notes the significance:

“Nor” carries on the negative at the beginning of v.24: Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary…nor did he…offer himself again and again.” Where there is nothing in the Greek corresponding to NIV’s “did he enter heaven,” the words seem required.

The Expositor’s Greek Testament agrees:


“Nor yet [did he enter in] in order to offer Himself repeatedly,” that is, He did not enter in for a brief stay from which He was to return to renew His sacrifice.


Vincet's Word Studies notes this as well stating:

Nor yet that (οὐ δ' ἵνα)
Supply did he enter. “Nor yet did he enter that he might offer,” etc.

The entry then of verse 24 is still being spoken of in verse 25, and the argument, in regard to the necessity of the cleansing of the heavenly things, is still being explained.
 
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tall73

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This phrase, ουδ ινα is key in two respects.

First of all it shows the connection to verse 24, and the entry, and therefore continues the argument about the cleansing of the heavenly things.

And second it points to the correct interpretation of the word "offer" in verse 25.

The "offering" of Himself in verse 25 happens as part of His entrance into God's presence. The offering then is not speaking of the death but of the presentation before the Father.

And the "offer" here is the fulfillment of the sprinkling on the day of atonement.

Here is the evidence:


a. The term that is used for offer here means to bring/offer/present. It is also the term that is used in 9:7 when describing the sprinkling of blood in the earthly day of atonement:

Heb 9:7 but into the second only the high priest goes, and he but once a year, and not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the unintentional sins of the people.

The author in 9:7 uses an unusual term to describe the day of atonement ministration of blood in the earthly sanctuary. The blood in the day of atonement type was sprinkled. But instead of sprinkling the author describes it as presentation of blood. This anticipates the fulfillment where Christ presents Himself in God's presence. Jesus in the fulfillment enters God's presence (9:24) and offers/presents Himself, just as the earthly high priest offered the blood on the day of atonement in God's presence, according to the author in vs. 7.

Heb 9:24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.
Heb 9:25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own


Jesus did not sprinkle Himself in heaven, but He presented Himself. His shed blood was long since dried after the cross. But He lives again and presents blood in the form of a living, completed sacrifice. He presents Himself in God's presence.


b. Jesus' offering of Himself is compared to the ENTRY of the earthly high priest, not the killing of the animal by the high priest.

Heb 9:25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,

The presentation of Christ is directly analogous to the entry with blood of animals by the high priest yearly (yearly is here meant rather than throughout the year as the term with κατα is the distributive usage). The yearly entry with blood by the high priest into God's presence is the day of atonement, as even many Adventist scholars have recognized:

Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary on Hebrews 10:1

Compare ch. 9:25, 26, where the work of Christ is again contrasted with that of the earthly high priest on the Day of Atonement.

M.L. Andreasen in The Book of Hebrews:

Verses 25, 26. The priests entered the first apartment daily, the high priest once every year when
he went into the most holy with the blood of the bullock and the goat.



William Johnsson in his essay Day of Atonement Allusions, which can be found in the DARCOM volume on Hebrews, lists 9:25 as clearly alluding to the day of atonement.

The context clearly points to a Day of Atonement allusion (high priest...yearly...blood [cf. 9:7])


Alwyn Salom in his appendix article in the Daniel and Revelation committee series, speaking of verse 24, 25:

The reference in the context of the day of atonement service of the earthly high priest is not to the outer compartment of the sanctuary.



Richard Davidson, notes that vs. 25 is an unmistakable reference to the day of atonement:

I agree with Young that Hebrews 9:7 and 9:25 refer to Day of Atonement, because of the clear references to “once a year” and “every year” respectively. Inauguration or Day of Atonement? Andrews University Seminary Studies, Spring 2002, pg. 79



Felix Cortez states in his article From the Holy to the Most Holy Place: The Period of Hebrews 9:6-10 and the Day of Atonement as a Metaphor of Transition:

Unchallenged references to the Day of Atonement in the central section include 9:7, 25
c. It makes no sense to say "Nor yet did He enter in order that He might offer Himself in death repeatedly." The death did not happen at the entry but on earth. But the offer here is the offering of Himself in God's presence. And that did happen at the entry.

d. If we take Jesus' offering of Himself to be death then it does not make sense of the whole argument in verse 25 and 26.

Heb 9:25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,
Heb 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.


The argument the author is making is that if Jesus were to offer Himself in heaven before God often He would also have to suffer (death) often.

But this argument, that for Jesus to present Himself often in heaven would require Him to suffer often, is lost if both "offer" and "suffer" mean death.

If both "offer and "suffer" referred to death then the argument of the two verses would be:

Nor yet was it to die often ....for then he would have had to die often....

The statement would be redundant.


Instead what we see in vs. 24 and 25, in direct answer to the necessity of the cleansing of the heavenly things, is an entrance into God's presence, fulfilling the offering of the blood by Jesus presenting Himself once for all. Jesus is living. He does not present His blood in a bowl but in His person.

Here are a number of commentaries which note this:

Jamieson Faussett Brown|:

Construe, "Nor yet did He enter for this purpose that He may offer Himself often," that is, "present Himself in the presence of God, as the high priest does (Paul uses the present tense, as the legal service was then existing), year by year, on the day of atonement, entering the Holy of Holies.


Commentary on the New Testament by D. D. Whedon

This offer is parallel to the entereth of the high priest; it, therefore does not here mean to sacrifice himself, but to present himself in heaven, as the high prest presented himself in the holy place. Yet in both cases a previous sacrifice takes place.

Beacon Bible Commentary

Extends the thought of the previous verse by affirming that this crucial self-presentation before the Father does not need to be repeated, as the high priest entereth into the [earthly] holy place every year with blood of others. If our Lord's mediatorial deed were not more conclusive than the Levitical copy, then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world.




Vincet's Word Studies notes this as well stating:

Offer himself refers rather to Christ's entrance into the heavenly sanctuary and presentation of himself before God, than to his offering on the cross...The sacrifice on the cross is described by παθειν suffer, Heb 9:26, and is introduced as a distinct thought. The point is that, being once in the heavenly sanctuary, Christ was not compelled to renew often his presentation of himself there, since, in that case, it would be necessary for him to suffer often. Each separate offering would necessitate a corresponding suffering.


New International Commentary on the New Testament (F.F. Bruce)

Moreover, when Christ entered into the heavenly sanctuary, he entered once for all. His entrance into the presence of God on his people's behalf, by virtue of his own blood, is set in sharp contrast to the entrance of Israel's high priest into the material holy of holies on the Day of Atonement.





Layman's Bible Commentary

Again, our Lord's entrance as High Priest into the heavenly sanctuary need not be performed "repeatedly" (vs.25). Repetitions of this type, as the author has already indicated, serve to show the nonvalidity (sic) of the sacrifices thus presented (vss. 8-10).


Commentary on the Epistle to the Hebrews by Franz Delitsch

V. 25 Nor yet (is he entered in) that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy of holies year by year with alien blood.

The comparison is between the offering of the Jewish high priest within the veil, and that of Christ in the eternal sanctuary: the προσφερειν εαυτον here spoken of cannot therefore be ...the self-sacrifice of Christ upon earth, but a self-presentation subsequent to that. The Jewish high priest goes year by year into the typical sanctuary, εν...αιματι αλλοτριω, i.e. to offer there the blood of a sacrifice which is not himself. Not so with Christ. He is gone into the heavenly sanctuary once for all, not to offer Himself first now, and then again some time hence, and again afterwards, and so on in perpetual succession.


On verse 26:



An of-repeated self-oblation (πολλακις προσφερειν εαυτον) would have been impossible without an oft-repeated suffering of death (πολλακισ παθειν).

The Epistle to the Hebrews: The First Apology for Christianity, An Exegetical Study, by Alexander Balmain Bruce

These verses (25-28) may be paraphrased thus: Christ has entered into the heavenly sanctuary to appear in the presence of God for us, and to abide there, herein differing from the Levitical high priest, who went into the most holy place and came out and went in again, repeating the process year by year, and making many appearances before God, with the blood of fresh sacrifices. Christ presents Himself before God once for all, remaining in the celestial sanctuary, and not going out and coming in again and again. It must be so; any other state of things would involve an absurdity. If Christ were to go in and come out, go in and come out, again and again, that would imply His dying over and over again; for the object of the repeated self-presentations in the presence of God on the part of the Jewish high priest was to offer the blood of new victims; but as Christ’s sacrifice was Himself, each new self-presentation would in His case imply a previous repetition of His passion. He must often on that supposition have suffered death since the foundation of the world.


The Expositor’s Greek Testament

“Nor yet [did he enter in] in order to offer Himself repeatedly,” that is, He did not enter in for a brief stay from which He was to return to renew His sacrifice. Westcott holds that the “offering” corresponds with the offering of the victim upon the altar, not with the bringing of the blood into the Holy of Holies. He refers to v. 14, εαυτον προσηνεγκεν, to ver. 28, and also to x. 10. Similarly Weiss and others. But in ix. 7 προσφερει distinctly refers to the bringing in and application of the blood in the Holy of Holies, and the context of the present passage seems decidedly to make for the same interpretation. The sequence of the ινα clause after εισηλθεν; the analogy presented in the clause under ωσπερ; and the consequences stated under επει (ver. 26) all combine in favouring this meaning. The high priest enters the Holiest annually, but Christ’s entering in was of another kind, not requiring repetition.

The Greek Testament

On vs. 26, in reference to 25 and 26 and the argument therein:


This παθειν is here not equivalent to that προσφερειν, but is emphatically placed as a new necessity, involved in that; the πολλακις being common to both: the πολλακιςπροσφερειν necessitated the πολλακιςπαθειν. If Christ’s view in entering heaven was to offer, present, himself often to God, then, as a condition of that frequent presentation, there would be an antecedent necessity for Him to suffer often: because that self-presentation is in fact the bringing in before God of the Blood of that his suffering: and if the one was to be renewed, so must the other be likewise.


 
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tall73

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Victor

There simply is no verse in Hebrews which states that Jesus entered the "hagia hagion" in the heavenly temple.


Then your statements before about the DOA imagery having an "Christological fulfillment" make no sense.

And you already admitted that Jesus inaugurated, which required entry into the whole sanctuary.

The more you post the less clear you become.

Is it your position that Jesus did not enter into the whole sanctuary at His ascension to inaugurate?
 
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VictorC

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Victor

There simply is no verse in Hebrews which states that Jesus entered the "hagia hagion" in the heavenly temple.
The location of the Mercyseat was defined in the MHP, and twice Hebrews presents Jesus as having attained access to that Mercyseat. The prejudice you impose onto the narratives contained in Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 9 affirms my conclusion stated before: I would submit that your intention is to toe the Adventist party line, and to do so you chose to write a couple of books on these subjects without taking the time to learn the subject material.
It is based on a false assumption that the heavenly temple is a carbon copy of the earthly one, which contradicts the picture given in Rev. 4-5 of Jesus in the holy place.
No, it isn't. This is a fabrication you appealed to before, without ever providing an alternative location for the Mercyseat.
Even in the Levitical model, daily atonement took place in the holy place, and only the final cleansing in the most holy place. Forgiveness was granted by the daily rites.
No, it isn't, and as was pointed out before you contradict Hebrews 9:28: "Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many". The daily rites are not described in Hebrews 9, and the daily rites of Leviticus 4 were not periodic at all: they were performed on-demand for the individual, and that individual had to provide his own sacrifice. The only rite that atoned for the sins of the many was the annual rite, as stated in Leviticus 16:33.
The fact that there is a Christological fulfillment of the Day of Atonement which Hebrews speaks of, does not exhaust the future judgement and eschatalogical fulfillment.
You inane appeal to fancy words does not take into account that the narrative presented in Hebrews doesn't address the eschatological fulfillment of judgment except in one verse, Hebrews 10:13: "from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool". That is the judgment of the second advent, and the sequence of events presented in Hebrews 10 does not allow the insertion of an event in 1844, which passed by 165 years ago. Your admission of a Christological fulfillment is a concession that atonement is complete, and SDA Fundamental Belief #24's "second and final phase of atonement" is fiction at its worst.
 
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VictorC

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I do accept there is a christological fulfillment when Christ entered the holy places of the heavenly temple to inaugurate it.
You forgot that Hebrews doesn't describe inauguration, but a completed atonement. Hebrews 10:14 states "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified". Nothing is left for a future fulfillment when atonement is described as perfect.
 
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Sophia7

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There was a christological fulfillment at his ascension. He did not need to make another entrance in 1844, only move from the holy to most holy place in the heavenly temple.



The investigative side is found in Daniel, Hebrews does not elaborate on this aspect although it hints at it in Hebrews 10:28 when he refers to the final judgement:
"28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Daniel doesn't use Day of Atonement imagery, and it doesn't describe a judgment of professed believers.

Hebrews does use Day of Atonement imagery, and you say you agree that Jesus fulfilled the type of the high priest's entrance into the MHP on the DoA, yet you deny that it means what it says, that the atonement was completed in the first century, long before 1844. Your "Christological fulfillment" isn't really a fulfillment at all.
 
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mrasell

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a. the imagery is not just of inauguration as you already admitted.

b. The inauguration would include entry into the equivalent of both apartments. And it was a once for all entry.

a. what did I admit? can you remind me.

b. your making an assumption, saying someone enters a three bedroom house, does not prove he enters all three bedrooms at that time. It does suggest though that as Jesus entered the ta hagia (holy places) he has a ministry in both apartments at some point in time.
 
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mrasell

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Hello Victor

These discussion seem to go round in circles with each side having their own interpretation of the verses.

It seems to me that we have to consider the main function of the daily and yearly rites. If forgiveness of sins were provided by the yearly service then the daily would have no function, and a shadow cannot point to a shadow. The fact that there are Christological lessons in the Day of Atonement does not change its fundamental purpose.

Hebrews cannot be taken in isolation from Leviticus, Daniel and Revelation; it is only one piece of the jigsaw. Hebrews does not go into all aspects of the Day of Atonement because they were irrelevant to the context of showing the superiority of the new system over the old, which even at its peak was inadequate.

Regarding the origin of the weekly Sabbath, where Scripture is not explicit we have to go by the weight of evidence.
 
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mrasell

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Daniel doesn't use Day of Atonement imagery, and it doesn't describe a judgment of professed believers.

Hebrews does use Day of Atonement imagery, and you say you agree that Jesus fulfilled the type of the high priest's entrance into the MHP on the DoA, yet you deny that it means what it says, that the atonement was completed in the first century, long before 1844. Your "Christological fulfillment" isn't really a fulfillment at all.

Daniel 8 does use Day of Atonement imagery with the ram, goat, and temple which is cleansed. And this cleansing parallels the judgement scene in chapter 7.

I have not denied that Christ made atonement for us before 1844. It all depends on what you mean by atonement. Clearly atonement means more than making the provision for salvation, it includes mediating the benefits and then cleansing the universe from sin.
 
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mrasell

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No, it isn't, and as was pointed out before you contradict Hebrews 9:28: "Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many". The daily rites are not described in Hebrews 9, and the daily rites of Leviticus 4 were not periodic at all: they were performed on-demand for the individual, and that individual had to provide his own sacrifice. The only rite that atoned for the sins of the many was the annual rite, as stated in Leviticus 16:33.

Your taking Hebrews out of context, it is not saying Christ's sacrifice is like the DOA, it is showing how it is not like it because the DOA rituals had to be repeated each year, but Christ's sacrifice did not.

You are also then denying the meaning of the daily rites by making them redundant.

The emphasis on many is to show that although not repeated, Christ sacrifice avails for many.

You inane appeal to fancy words does not take into account that the narrative presented in Hebrews doesn't address the eschatological fulfillment of judgment except in one verse, Hebrews 10:13: "from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool". That is the judgment of the second advent, and the sequence of events presented in Hebrews 10 does not allow the insertion of an event in 1844, which passed by 165 years ago. Your admission of a Christological fulfillment is a concession that atonement is complete, and SDA Fundamental Belief #24's "second and final phase of atonement" is fiction at its worst.

The fact that Hebrews does not address what happens between is not denying that anything happens, it was simply not relevant to the context of showing that Jesus was superior to the old rites which all pointed to Him.

Leviticus established the different functions of the daily and yearly services, but you deny the daily rites, and try to place them into the yearly system, thus making a nonsense of the whole system.
 
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