The Great Palestinian lie

[NaughtyNinja]

Yeah, I don't know/care about your video. Doesn't change the fact that Israeli's collaborated with Allied powers to steal land from the Palestinians, moved them onto reservations, take all of the natural resources for themselves, deny them freedom of movement, unlawfully detain and check their papers, disarm them, allow them a limited form of government, and otherwise generally dehumanize Palestinians.

So, yeah, don't really care what the video shows. Maybe it's fake news, maybe not - but it doesn't change the facts.

Considering how Palestinians treated Jews before they took power is quite an understatement. Being an ex Muslim I have just about heard every lie from both sides of the table. Palestinians essentially want apiece of land they inhabited years ago regardless of the fact their ancestry originates from Jordan. Palestinians have occupied the land called Israel for centuries, the issue is that nobody knows its exact ethnic inhabitants but Jews have existed far longer then the Jordanian presence in it. This is no different than the Kurds arguing over their land. Yet nobody complains about hoe Turkey and Iran bombs them with mortars and slaughters their children.

 

[ebia]

I'm not complaining that they did. I'm just saying that humans have a tendency of helping those who are most like them.

Ya but you really think that younger generations care about that Biblical stuff? They're seeing it as "I'm Muslim, you're Jewish", not "We are both sons of Abraham". If they did, this mess wouldn't be going on, from both sides of the isle.

So it's not about being Arabic at all, it's about being Muslim?

 

[SolomonVII]

Genocide is your word, not mine. Though the Christians have been heavily squeezed out, and the whole and declared point of the settlements is to achieve the rest.

https://www.google.ca/#output=searc...38,d.cGE&fp=c75ea38d1859b04d&biw=1024&bih=653

Could you please direct me to where Israel has declared the goal of the settlements is to achieve genocide, or the rest, or whatever it is you mean?

 

[ebia]

https://www.google.ca/#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=israel+declares+goal+of+settlements+is+to+drive+out+palestinians&oq=israel+declares+goal+of+settlements+is+to+drive+out+palestinians&gs_l=hp.3...381162.400082.1.400289.80.73.7.0.0.0.176.4303.71j2.73.0...0.0...1c.1.9.hp.pi6bU433l-I&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45175338,d.cGE&fp=c75ea38d1859b04d&biw=1024&bih=653

Could you please direct me to where Israel has declared the goal of the settlements is to achieve genocide, or the rest, or whatever it is you mean?

I'm thinking of statements by the settlers themselves; no I don't have a link

 

[SolomonVII]

I'm thinking of statements by the settlers themselves; no I don't have a link

That's fine. I believe you without a link.

It does nto surprise me at all that the most militant of the Israeli settlers are every bit as militant in their goals as the elected governments of Hamas et al. are in theirs.

The Israeli government itself has demonstrated a willingness to ethnically cleanse their own militants out of lands, once some kind of peace settlement has been negotiated.
Of course this is getting to be less and less poltically viable as the memory of Intifadas and rockets as the response to such negotiated settlements remain strong in Israelis minds. Even the leftist Israeli peaceniks have become cynical.

 

[Gath]

Unifying them under the swastika and the economy of making tanks and jets for war.

But I never said that I supported unification under Nazism, I just said I supported unification. It would be possible for me to say that I support German unification without supporting the Nazi party-I can support one action of the Nazis without supporting them all. I could also be a Republican who is Pro-Choice, or a Democrat who wants less government intervention in the economy.

As for the economy, I can support the use of government spending to help the economy out of a recession without supporting the specific things the government spends money on.

 

[Loudmouth]

One side targets military posts, another targets civilians and uses their own civilians as shields. Who really is inhumane here?

The inhumanity is kicking people off of their land and forcing them onto reservations surrounded with barbed wire and checkpoints.

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

I'm thinking of statements by the settlers themselves; no I don't have a link

Oh, hey, btw, just so you guys know: ET just landed in my garden, and he's pretty cool. No, I'm not going to post pictures or links or anything, but it's totally true anyway!

Oh, and I just heard Obama say that he's totally going to lock up all republicans and brand them with the number of the beast. It's totally true, and no, I don't have a link...

The point: If you're going to make an insane statement, you'd better be able to back it up with evidence.

 

[ebia]

Oh, hey, btw, just so you guys know: ET just landed in my garden, and he's pretty cool. No, I'm not going to post pictures or links or anything, but it's totally true anyway!

Oh, and I just heard Obama say that he's totally going to lock up all republicans and brand them with the number of the beast. It's totally true, and no, I don't have a link...

The point: If you're going to make an insane statement, you'd better be able to back it up with evidence.

Are you trying to claim that the settlements are not trying to squeeze Palestinians out? What do you think their objective is?

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

Are you trying to claim that the settlements are not trying to squeeze Palestinians out? What do you think their objective is?

To live in the land they believe is theirs.
Hey, btw, when are you packing all your stuff and moving back to England where your ancestors came from? You've stolen the Aborigines' land! You shouldn't live there!

And when you take a break from packing, could you please show us some evidence that the settlers' aim is genocide?

Thanks

 

[ebia]

Wikipedia:


In 1983 an Israeli government plan entitled "Master Plan and Development Plan for Settlement in Samaria and Judea" envisaged placing a "maximally large Jewish population" in priority areas to accomplish incorporation of the West Bank in the Israeli "national system".[61] According to Ariel Sharon, strategic settlement locations would work to preclude the formation of a Palestinian state.[62]

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

Wikipedia:


In 1983 an Israeli government plan entitled "Master Plan and Development Plan for Settlement in Samaria and Judea" envisaged placing a "maximally large Jewish population" in priority areas to accomplish incorporation of the West Bank in the Israeli "national system".[61] According to Ariel Sharon, strategic settlement locations would work to preclude the formation of a Palestinian state.[62]

Uhm....well, now that we're just posting random stuff: I'd really prefer the weather was better!
I say "random stuff" because your quote (which isn't linked, so anyone who wants to check that you didn't just make something up is going to have to trawl through the entirety of Wikipedia to find it) doesn't show anything about wiping out the Arabs, which is what "genocide" refers to: The extermination of an entire people. You know: Like the Arabs would do to the Jews in a heartbeat, if they had the capability.

So: Please provide proof that the settlers as a whole are set on exterminating the "Palestinians", or retract your statement.

How does the packing go, btw? And have you found a place to stay in England?

 

[ebia]

Uhm....well, now that we're just posting random stuff: I'd really prefer the weather was better!
I say "random stuff" because your quote (which isn't linked, so anyone who wants to check that you didn't just make something up is going to have to trawl through the entirety of Wikipedia to find it) doesn't show anything about wiping out the Arabs, which is what "genocide" refers to: The extermination of an entire people. You know: Like the Arabs would do to the Jews in a heartbeat, if they had the capability.

So: Please provide proof that the settlers as a whole are set on exterminating the "Palestinians", or retract your statement.

I haven't used the word genocide, nor "wiping out", nor exterminating. You are constructing a strawman.

This sub forum is not restricted to people resident in England, so I have no idea what you are referring to.

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

I haven't used the word genocide, nor "wiping out", nor exterminating. You are constructing a strawman.

This sub forum is not restricted to people resident in England, so I have no idea what you are referring to.

You're Australian, so unless you're Aboriginal, you're living on stolen land by your own definition, and need to give the land back to the Aboriginals.
Or is that someohow different, all of a sudden?

 

[ebia]

You're Australian, so unless you're Aboriginal, you're living on stolen land by your own definition, and need to give the land back to the Aboriginals.
Or is that someohow different, all of a sudden?

Thankfully Australia is no longer deliberately oppressing indigenous Australians and trying to breed them out of existence, and therefore the current situation is not analogous to the situation in the occupied territories.

Does Australia need to make a lot greater restorative action to repair what can be repaired from our history - most definitely. I commend the lecture "Whose Land?" by Peter Adam, then Principle of Ridley Bible College.

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

Thankfully Australia is no longer deliberately oppressing indigenous Australians and trying to breed them out of existence, and therefore the current situation is not analogous to the situation in the occupied territories.

Does Australia need to make a lot greater restorative action to repair what can be repaired from our history - most definitely. I commend the lecture "Whose Land?" by Peter Adam, then Principle of Ridley Bible College.

Bovine manure! You're moving the goalposts because it's suddenly about YOU, and not about "Those darned Jews!!!"
If you want to remain consistent with your own viewpoint, you'd sign away all of your property to an Aboriginal, track down your English heritage, and go move there. That you aren't prepared to do this, speaks volumes about your so-called "morality".

Personally, I don't buy into the "white guilt"-scheme, so your efforts to infect me with it is futile.

 

[ebia]

Bovine manure! You're moving the goalposts because it's suddenly about YOU, and not about "Those darned Jews!!!"
If you want to remain consistent with your own viewpoint, you'd sign away all of your property to an Aboriginal, track down your English heritage, and go move there. That you aren't prepared to do this, speaks volumes about your so-called "morality".

Personally, I don't buy into the "white guilt"-scheme, so your efforts to infect me with it is futile.

You didn't read the lecture, did you? And I haven't demanded what you think I've demanded - that the Jews leave the Middle East.

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

And I haven't demanded what you think I've demanded - that the Jews leave the Middle East.

So, you don't think that the settlers should be deported?

 

[ebia]

So, you don't think that the settlers should be deported?

The settlers are not in a position equivalent. They are currently illegally occupying territory that is not part of Israel. Saying they are entitled to stay is saying anyone can build a house anywhere they like on anybody's land in a foreign country and are immediately entitled to live there. If a group of Mexicans cross the border and build a township in Texas are they entitled to stay and have the Mexican army come in to protect them?

The territory assigned to Israel itself is somewhat analogous to the Australian situation, but the settlements are not.

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

The settlers are not in a position equivalent. They are currently illegally occupying territory that is not part of Israel. Saying they are entitled to stay is saying anyone can build a house anywhere they like on anybody's land in a foreign country and are immediately entitled to live there.

You're occupying territory that isn't part of England. Saying you are entitled to stay, is saying anyone can build a house anywhere they like on anybody's land in a foreign country and are immediately entitled to live there.
So you should be deported, by force if necessary, to England where you belong, and hand over your property to Aboriginals.
Or just admit that you're a hypocrite, who hold others to vastly different standards than yourself.

Secondly: I'd like to see the Mexican army try to do....basically anything They wouldn't stand 5 minutes in a fight with the US Army. This isn't the mid-19th century anymore. Mexico's golden age is long gone.