The great falling away, to apostasy sin, or into Messiah?

[GoldenKingGaze]

John Fenn taught on youtube that this scripture is mistranslated:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 KJV
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

He says from Greek, the word that gives us the English word "apostasy" refers to falling away, as a ship going over the horizon. Not sin. That it does not make sense that there are many who turn into sin from the true faith, before the Anti-Christ is revealed. But rather that we fall away, over into the Messiah. Then without the righteous, there is the revelation of the Anti-Christ.

Using also the Hebrew traditions of the coming Messiah, feast of trumpets, the last horn and the salvation of the fully righteous, also looking at the intermediates, and the fully wicked. With some changing in the last few years.

I checked non KJV translations to find they exemplify the interpretation that the falling away is considered to mean a great rebellion. And apostasy means fallen to a state of sin from true teaching, down.

Howard Storm believes the rapture only happens as Christ returns, I think he teaches there is no future Anti-Christ. No nuclear war...

So is the falling away, into Messiah or sin? Is there more than one rapture, with changing sides?

 

[Allen of the Cross]

There are other scriptures to keep in mind, to take into account to get the fuller picture:

2Ti 4:3 KJV For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 3:1 KJV This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 KJV For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 KJV Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 KJV Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 KJV Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 KJV For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

1Ti 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 KJV Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 KJV Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

So taking the full view of what Paul has written here into account, I think it is safe to say there is and will be a turning from true faith and doctrine into great error, regardless of whether that particular word in Greek is referring to the apostasy or not

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

There are other scriptures to keep in mind, to take into account to get the fuller picture:

2Ti 4:3 KJV For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 3:1 KJV This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 KJV For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 KJV Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 KJV Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 KJV Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 KJV For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

1Ti 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 KJV Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 KJV Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

So taking the full view of what Paul has written here into account, I think it is safe to say there is and will be a turning from true faith and doctrine into great error, regardless of whether that particular word in Greek is referring to the apostasy or not

Yes I have read all this. And there is scripture about the reaper overtaking the sower.

Some mission fields are greatly enlarging and commissioning evangelists and teachers... while Europe and the US... crumble, after the witch hunts and Thirty years war... rational thinking soured, makes for too much atheism.

I'd say having a form of Godliness but denying the power is Cessationism. And this falling away is centuries old and Christ second coming depends on everyone at least hearing the Gospel. Repentance and conversion are the key to His return in the years before He returns. And that could be twenty years or five hundred, depending on our evangelists diligence. And world wide coverage of God's word.

 

[Douggg]

John Fenn taught on youtube that this scripture is mistranslated:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 KJV
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

He says from Greek, the word that gives us the English word "apostasy" refers to falling away, as a ship going over the horizon. Not sin. That it does not make sense that there are many who turn into sin from the true faith, before the Anti-Christ is revealed. But rather that we fall away, over into the Messiah. Then without the righteous, there is the revelation of the Anti-Christ.

Using also the Hebrew traditions of the coming Messiah, feast of trumpets, the last horn and the salvation of the fully righteous, also looking at the intermediates, and the fully wicked. With some changing in the last few years.

I checked non KJV translations to find they exemplify the interpretation that the falling away is considered to mean a great rebellion. And apostasy means fallen to a state of sin from true teaching, down.

Howard Storm believes the rapture only happens as Christ returns, I think he teaches there is no future Anti-Christ. No nuclear war...

So is the falling away, into Messiah or sin? Is there more than one rapture, with changing sides?

I could not vote because none of your options fit.

The falling away is Christians departing from believing that Jesus is the messiah to believing that the Antichrist is the messiah. To take place during the first half of the coming 7 years of Daniel 9:27. Most of the first half to be a false messianic age.

Then after the falling away occurs, the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood - revealing himself as the man of sin and not the messiah after all.

_________________________________________________________________

Concerning the rapture timing window...

 

[Original Happy Camper]

That it does not make sense that there are many who turn into sin from the true faith, before the Anti-Christ is revealed.

the teaching above is universalism

Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

These are professed christians
Matthew 7:22-23 King James Version
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I could not vote because none of your options fit.

The falling away is Christians departing from believing that Jesus is the messiah to believing that the Antichrist is the messiah. To take place during the first half of the coming 7 years of Daniel 9:27. Most of the first half to be a false messianic age.

Then after the falling away occurs, the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood - revealing himself as the man of sin and not the messiah after all.

_________________________________________________________________

Concerning the rapture timing window...



View attachment 322042

What do you think of the idea that the righteous will be raptured and only then will the man of sin no longer be held from power? And, that before Christ returns, that to be fair, everyone on Earth will have a good chance to repent? Unlike those killed in the flood of Noah, and who Jesus preached to in gloomy dungeons. So they got their chance in the end.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

the teaching above is universalism

Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

These are professed christians
Matthew 7:22-23 King James Version
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

My quote you refer to is to say that the man of sin is not able to to be revealed until after the problem to him, the just, are removed.

But I do think that many people are saved by Christ not just a few, not taking Matthew 7:13-14 literally. Looking at 1 Timothy 4:10 and NDE accounts.

To receive true prophecy and reveal another one's secret thoughts, takes a seeking of God in true sincerity and a clean heart, at least to begin with. And this results in the hearer receiving Christ.

There must be a great evangelism before there is a fair chance for all to bring Christ's second coming.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

not taking Matthew 7:13-14 literally.

What do you take it as if not literally?

there is a qualifier in the 1 Tim veerse you quoted and that is "specially of them that believe." that is true believers, it qualifies "all men"

 

[Douggg]

What do you think of the idea that the righteous will be raptured and only then will the man of sin no longer be held from power?

The rapture could happen anytime between right now and to when the Antichrist commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act.

Please take a look at these nine steps to the person becoming known - to his end.

I think who the person is - will first be determined when the formation of the ten leader ruling body and the little horn over them takes place in the end times fourth kingdom, i.e. the EU. Based on Daniel 7:23-25.

first - the little horn person becomes known, then....

second - God/Magog takes place, then...

third - the little horn person, as the prince who shall come, enters the middle
east with his EU army on the premise of peace keepers, then...

fourth - the prince who shall come is perceived by the Jews, currently looking for their messiah, as being their messiah. He is anointed the King of Israel, by the false prophet, becoming the Antichrist, then...

five - the great falling away in Christianity begins, then...

six - the Antichrist commits the act of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood, revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah after all, then...

seven - God in angered about it, sends strangers against the revealed man of sin to assassinate him, then....

eight - finding himself in hell, he is mocked, and God in disdain for the person, doesn't let him rest there, and returns his soul to his lifeless body.....

nine - at that time of coming back to life, his mortal wound healed, he will be possessed by the spirit of the original garden of eden serpent beast now in the bottomless pit. The person then takes on that personality, as cunning and working for Satan - and thereafter himself is called the beast in Revelation 13 for the remaining 42 months of the seven years.

And, that before Christ returns, that to be fair, everyone on Earth will have a good chance to repent? Unlike those killed in the flood of Noah, and who Jesus preached to in gloomy dungeons. So they got their chance in the end.

Because it says of people not repenting during the judgments of the trumpets and vials - there appears to be the option that they can repent - but they don't choose to. Maybe some will repent, I don't know.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The rapture could happen anytime between right now and to when the Antichrist commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act.

Please take a look at these nine steps to the person becoming known - to his end.

I think who the person is - will first be determined when the formation of the ten leader ruling body and the little horn over them takes place in the end times fourth kingdom, i.e. the EU. Based on Daniel 7:23-25.

first - the little horn person becomes known, then....

second - God/Magog takes place, then...

third - the little horn person, as the prince who shall come, enters the middle
east with his EU army on the premise of peace keepers, then...

fourth - the prince who shall come is perceived by the Jews, currently looking for their messiah, as being their messiah. He is anointed the King of Israel, by the false prophet, becoming the Antichrist, then...

five - the great falling away in Christianity begins, then...

six - the Antichrist commits the act of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood, revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah after all, then...

seven - God in angered about it, sends strangers against the revealed man of sin to assassinate him, then....

eight - finding himself in hell, he is mocked, and God in disdain for the person, doesn't let him rest there, and returns his soul to his lifeless body.....

nine - at that time of coming back to life, his mortal wound healed, he will be possessed by the spirit of the original garden of eden serpent beast now in the bottomless pit. The person then takes on that personality, as cunning and working for Satan - and thereafter himself is called the beast in Revelation 13 for the remaining 42 months of the seven years.

Because it says of people not repenting during the judgments of the trumpets and vials - there appears to be the option that they can repent - but they don't choose to. Maybe some will repent, I don't know.

That sounds like a very developed plot. Who invented this one?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

What do you take it as if not literally?

there is a qualifier in the 1 Tim veerse you quoted and that is "specially of them that believe." that is true believers, it qualifies "all men"

Yes, all infants who die, most if not all children, many adults, Christians an non Christians, including those not baptized.

 

[Douggg]

That sounds like a very developed plot. Who invented this one?

GoldenKingGaze, from what God has taught me. No commentator, nor bible prophecy teacher, nor denominational presentation.

I am 73, and it has been a long personal story of over an amazing 50 years of study on the subject. God has determined it as the purpose of my life.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

GoldenKingGaze, from what God has taught me. No commentator, nor bible prophecy teacher, nor denominational presentation.

I am 73, and it has been a long personal story of over an amazing 50 years of study on the subject. God has determined it as the purpose of my life.

Thanks. As an aside from my OP, do you think the Anti-Christ will obtain an anointing?

 

[Douggg]

Thanks. As an aside from my OP, do you think the Anti-Christ will obtain an anointing?

Many Christians us the term "an" anointing to mean a special purpose of the Holy Spirit in some aspect of the their life. But I don't think that applies to the Antichrist person.

What I think about the Antichrist as being anointed the King of Israel, comes from....

I have had many, many discussions with Jews (Judaism) regarding their expectation of the messiah (over 10,000 exchanges at their sites). They pointed out to me that both the priests and the kings in Israel's history were considered "anointed".

The first three kings of Israel (before splitting into two nations) were anointed king by a known prophet. Saul and David by Samuel. And Solomon by Nathan the prophet. Anointed with some special blend of oil.

For that reason, the Jews believe that the messiah will be anointed King of Israel by a known prophet.

Thus, my reason for thinking the the prince who shall come will be anointed by the false prophet is that the false prophet in Revelation 13 does miracles mimicking what Elijah the prophet did in his battle with the priests of Baal, i.e. calling fire down from heaven.

And because the Jews also are looking for Elijah to be part of bringing in the messianic age, imo, it appears as they will think the false prophet is Elijah.

And catering to that perception, the false prophet will anoint the prince who shall come - the King of Israel, messiah.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

John Fenn taught on youtube that this scripture is mistranslated:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 KJV
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

He says from Greek, the word that gives us the English word "apostasy" refers to falling away, as a ship going over the horizon. Not sin. That it does not make sense that there are many who turn into sin from the true faith, before the Anti-Christ is revealed. But rather that we fall away, over into the Messiah. Then without the righteous, there is the revelation of the Anti-Christ.

Using also the Hebrew traditions of the coming Messiah, feast of trumpets, the last horn and the salvation of the fully righteous, also looking at the intermediates, and the fully wicked. With some changing in the last few years.

I checked non KJV translations to find they exemplify the interpretation that the falling away is considered to mean a great rebellion. And apostasy means fallen to a state of sin from true teaching, down.

Howard Storm believes the rapture only happens as Christ returns, I think he teaches there is no future Anti-Christ. No nuclear war...

So is the falling away, into Messiah or sin? Is there more than one rapture, with changing sides?

Curious why you did not include "apostasy" in your pole. That is what " falling away" means. Leaving the faith and choosing not to endure till the end. I dont think rebellion is the same thing , it's more like a defection.
Blessings.

Edit: I do see rebellion as one of the translation words for apostasy however, I still dont think it's quite accurate.

 

[DavidPT]

There are other scriptures to keep in mind, to take into account to get the fuller picture:

2Ti 4:3 KJV For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 3:1 KJV This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 KJV For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 KJV Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 KJV Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 KJV Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 KJV For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

1Ti 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 KJV Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 KJV Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

So taking the full view of what Paul has written here into account, I think it is safe to say there is and will be a turning from true faith and doctrine into great error, regardless of whether that particular word in Greek is referring to the apostasy or not

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

To maybe add to what you submitted, I tend to think the above is also describing the falling away recorded in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Verse 11 says---And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. That who should believe a lie? How about these doing the following, for one? except there come a falling away first

Verse 10 says---because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. While Matthew 24:13 records---But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Obviously then, if they fall away this clearly means they don't endure unto the end, which then means this for them---that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Where pleasure in unrighteousness apparently involves this---And because iniquity shall abound(Matthew 24:12).

In other words, all of the above is yet further proof that not once saved always saved, that this is Biblical since you have to be part of something to fall away from that same something. And what do they fall away from? Salvation, by not enduing unto the end.

 

[HTacianas]

John Fenn taught on youtube that this scripture is mistranslated:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 KJV
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

He says from Greek, the word that gives us the English word "apostasy" refers to falling away, as a ship going over the horizon. Not sin. That it does not make sense that there are many who turn into sin from the true faith, before the Anti-Christ is revealed. But rather that we fall away, over into the Messiah. Then without the righteous, there is the revelation of the Anti-Christ.

Using also the Hebrew traditions of the coming Messiah, feast of trumpets, the last horn and the salvation of the fully righteous, also looking at the intermediates, and the fully wicked. With some changing in the last few years.

I checked non KJV translations to find they exemplify the interpretation that the falling away is considered to mean a great rebellion. And apostasy means fallen to a state of sin from true teaching, down.

Howard Storm believes the rapture only happens as Christ returns, I think he teaches there is no future Anti-Christ. No nuclear war...

So is the falling away, into Messiah or sin? Is there more than one rapture, with changing sides?

The "falling away" is to fall from the teachings of the Church. It can come from an evil desire to do the same evil others are doing:

Mat 24:12 “And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

Note that lawlessness abounds and the love of many grows cold. It could be through falling into evil or simply giving up from despair. It doesn't necessarily mean that there any evil intentions at all.

And there is no "rapture" as most people who talk about the idea make it out to be. No one gets spirited away to avoid any sort of persecution. Else what would that say about the earliest Christians who were killed by the sword or the beasts of the earth, see Rev 6:8.

I personally do not believe in a future antichrist. Mostly because the bible clarifies the earliest teachings about antichrist in saying there are many antichrists, see 1 John 2:18. Anyone who denied that Jesus was the messiah is antichrist, 1 John 2:22, as well as the gnostics who taught that Jesus was only a spirit with no physical body, 1 John 4:3, 2 John 1:7. There is no one antichrist, there is only the spirit of antichrist. It began with the Jews of the first century and continues among the Jews of today, and Muslims throughout Islam's existence, among others.

Anything described in the Revelation happening in the future would have to happen again. That's because all those things it describes already happened, such as the sea turning to blood, a false prophet, a beast, five months of suffering, fire coming down from heaven in the sight of men, etc. People -both Christians and Jews- were put to death for refusing to worship the image of the beast. So if anyone ever tells you those things are going to happen, insist that they say they will happen again.

 

[BrotherJJ]

John Fenn taught on youtube that this scripture is mistranslated:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 KJV
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

He says from Greek, the word that gives us the English word "apostasy" refers to falling away, as a ship going over the horizon. Not sin. That it does not make sense that there are many who turn into sin from the true faith, before the Anti-Christ is revealed. But rather that we fall away, over into the Messiah. Then without the righteous, there is the revelation of the Anti-Christ.

Using also the Hebrew traditions of the coming Messiah, feast of trumpets, the last horn and the salvation of the fully righteous, also looking at the intermediates, and the fully wicked. With some changing in the last few years.

I checked non KJV translations to find they exemplify the interpretation that the falling away is considered to mean a great rebellion. And apostasy means fallen to a state of sin from true teaching, down.

Howard Storm believes the rapture only happens as Christ returns, I think he teaches there is no future Anti-Christ. No nuclear war...

So is the falling away, into Messiah or sin? Is there more than one rapture, with changing sides?

Another perspective

Find 5 pre 1611 KJV Bible translations stating before Christ come there will be a departure [not a falling away} then will the man of sin be revealed

1526 Tyndale Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (B) ""the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a departynge fyrst"" and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion

1537 Matthews Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (B) ""the Lord cometh not/except ther come a departure"" that the sinfull man opened/the son of perdition

1535 Miles Coverdale Bible (1535)
2 Thes 2:3 Let noman disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORD commeth not, ""except the departynge come 1st"" and that that Man of synne be opened, euen the sonne of perdicion,

1540 The Great Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (B) ""the lord comes not except a departure first"", and the sinfull man be showed, son of perdition,

1599 Geneva Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

(MY NOTE: Above find 5 pre 1611 KJV Bible translations stating before Christ come's there will be a departure [not falling away] then will the man of sin be revealed)

Find supporting scripture where believers escape the coming wrath of the great tribulation

We see here the church escaping the wrath of the great tribulation.

1 Thes 1:10, And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even ""Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come""

Rom 5:9 being now justified by his blood ""we shall be saved from wrath"" through him

1 Thes 5:9 ""God hath not appointed us to wrath"" but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

Additionally:
The angels couldn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were clear

Noah and his family were delivered from wrath before the flood came

The great tribulation to come is called the time of Jacobs/Israels trouble Jer 30:7. Not the NT church

KJ Bible Dictionary Definition: DEPARTURE, n.

1. The act of going away; a moving from or leaving a place; as a departure from London.
Source link:
DEPARTURE - Definition from the KJV Dictionary

(MY NOTE: act of going away, leaving a place, departing from a place. Nothing about apostasy mentioned in KJ Bible Dictionary Definition for departure.

Departure as in caught-up/rapture (1 Thes 4:17)

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Curious why you did not include "apostasy" in your pole. That is what " falling away" means. Leaving the faith and choosing not to endure till the end. I dont think rebellion is the same thing , it's more like a defection.
Blessings.

Edit: I do see rebellion as one of the translation words for apostasy however, I still dont think it's quite accurate.

John Fenn describes the original Greek translated to apostasy like gnosis becomes knowledge in English, as being like a ship falling away over the horizon. It doesn't mean rebellion originally.

He says they will fall away into Messiah then there will be no more people holding back an anti-christ, so he is revealed.

I am not sure of all this. I am not sure there will be a rapture until Christ is actually returning. I think we may all be killed not raptured. Martyrs.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

John Fenn describes the original Greek translated to apostasy like gnosis becomes knowledge in English, as being like a ship falling away over the horizon. It doesn't mean rebellion originally.

He says they will fall away into Messiah then there will be no more people holding back an anti-christ, so he is revealed.

I am not sure of all this. I am not sure there will be a rapture until Christ is actually returning. I think we may all be killed not raptured. Martyrs.

Fall away "into" Messiah? Not accurate one bit. Thanks for sharing!
Blessings