The God of the Bible

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
It is written that those who seek the living God WILL find Him.

Nevertheless those who don't are guilty.

What has what you posted got to do with my post (most of what you omitted) that you quoted from (post #132)?

i will not be responding further to any of your posts. Please do likewise and do not respond further to any of my posts.

Thank you kindly.

 

[All4Christ]

Um, no. Just spoke to other women and went to classes. Make no mistake here, the biggest sadness I have about all this is the willingness to speak bad things about others, to what outcome?

That post was intended to go to Deus Vault regarding the discussion about Al

 

[All4Christ]

I am amazed that you cared enough to look it up to see if my claim was true or not... I am so amazed, just to be sure then, you are agreeing with my former statements then?

...no, I don’t agree with them. I did do some additional reading on the subject, as I like to be able to provides sources to my own statements (to understand more about where you are coming from). My reading came supported my original thoughts - that the Allah is the OP is Al + Illiah (the + God).

Al is a definitive article in Arabic. The “Al” of the pre-Islamic deities (Al-Uzzá, etc) is still the definitive article; it does not mean God. See my links above.

Can you provide a source about Al in Arabic meaning god? That’s my main point in the previous posts. Al does not mean god. It is a definitive article.

Honestly, we don’t have to continue this discussion as I don’t believe either of us will change our thoughts. However, I do suggest that you research the points I mentioned above, and also consider what @JosephZ just said below this post.

 

[JosephZ]

What willingness do we have to speak bad things about others? To educate the ignorant, to out of love preach the true God of Israel: Jesus Christ. That all who would believe on His name would be saved. Because it is to this Name that all will bow. Those in Heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth. Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is LORD to the Glory of God the Father. Philippians( 2:5-11). This is why Gwen. Because we are following the Great Commision of our Lord who told his disciples to preach the Gospel: the good news of life eternal that awaits all who have remained steadfast in faith and commanment to Him. If it was unnecessary to believe in Jesus for salvation then he would not have commanded us to preach His Name, His Gospel, and His salvation. Jesus said: "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE, THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER IS THROUGH ME".

If you ever plan to witness to a Muslim and you start out by trying to convince them that they are not worshiping the same God, you will push them even further away from Christ than they already are. They will also think that you are not only ignorant of their religion, but also of the other two Abrahamic faiths, including your own.

Reaching out to Muslims with the gospel doesn't require insulting their intelligence, their God, or their prophet.

"Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and respect;" (1 peter 3:15)

 

[Andrewn]

In the case of Al-Lah (the pre-Islamic deity), Al is the definitive article for the deity Lah.

There is no pre-Islamic deity called Lah.

Category:Arabian gods - Wikipedia

 

[All4Christ]

There is no pre-Islamic deity called Lah.

Category:Arabian gods - Wikipedia

Correct. My point was to show that Al meaning God is wrong. I wrote that when I was tired and made a mistake on the deity’s name.

Their theory was first proposed in the early 1900s and was pushed by the Jack Chick pamphlets. It is wrong on many levels,and I wanted people to consider the linguistic definition of Al, as that will prove the theory is wrong. Al-Uzzah would be a better example. Uzzah is the name of the deity and Al is the definitive word. Others have claimed that Al means God, which is false. If anyone looks up Al in the dictionary, they will see that it is not the word for God in Arabic - the only definition is the definitive indicator. Allah is a contraction of Al and Illiah.

 

[Charlie24]

Correct. My point was to show that Al meaning God is wrong. I wrote that when I was tired and made a mistake on the deity’s name.

Their theory was first proposed in the early 1900s and was pushed by the Jack Chick pamphlets. It is wrong on many levels,and I’d like them to look up the linguistic definition of Al, as that will prove the theory is wrong. Al-Uzzah would be a better example. Uzzah is the name of the deity and Al is the definitive word. Others have claimed that Al means God, which is false. If anyone looks up Al in the dictionary, they will see that it is not the word for God in Arabic. Allah is a contraction of Al and Illiah.

I can understand why the name Allah entered into this discussion, but the name of Islams god is beside the point.

Islam departed from the God of the Bible when they claimed it wasn't Isaac that was offered on the alter by Abraham but that it was Ishmael.

After this, it is all about Ishmael and his seed that would receive the promise of God.

The God of the Bible plainly told Abraham that Ishmael has been rejected, and your seed shall be in Isaac.

As I said, this where Islam departed from the God of the bible. They are serving another God, one who does not exist.

Yes, there are many good people in Islam, peace loving people. But they are not serving the One and Only God of the Bible.

 

[All4Christ]

I can understand why the name Allah entered into this discussion, but the name of Islams god is beside the point.

Islam departed from the God of the Bible when they claimed it wasn't Isaac that was offered on the alter by Abraham but that it was Ishmael.

After this, it is all about Ishmael and his seed that would receive the promise of God.

The God of the Bible plainly told Abraham that Ishmael has been rejected, and your seed shall be in Isaac.

As I said, this where Islam departed from the God of the bible. They are serving another God, one who does not exist.

Yes, there are many good people in Islam, peace loving people. But they are not serving the One and Only God of the Bible.

Understood. Apologies for the deviation in the discussion. I just prefer people to use accurate facts when making an argument, no matter the end result.

 

[Gwendolynz]

There is no pre-Islamic deity called Lah.

Category:Arabian gods - Wikipedia

There is some thought that Zoroastrianism predates Judaism, Christianity, and certainly Islam. Ahura Mazda is their Deity. It seems likely to me that the first Homo Sapiens emerged around 200,000 years ago, and present day humans around 70,000 years ago. This is not intended to be an indictment of the Era beginning with Adam and Eve at all. My own premise is that there were those before the Sumerians (3000 BC). We'd like to say that we know the time of Adam and Eve for sure... For now, the Lutherans are good enough I suppose.

 

[Deus Vult!]

...no, I don’t agree with them. I did do some additional reading on the subject, as I like to be able to provides sources to my own statements (to understand more about where you are coming from). My reading came supported my original thoughts - that the Allah is the OP is Al + Illiah (the + God).

Al is a definitive article in Arabic. The “Al” of the pre-Islamic deities (Al-Uzzá, etc) is still the definitive article; it does not mean God. See my links above.

Can you provide a source about Al in Arabic meaning god? That’s my main point in the previous posts. Al does not mean god. It is a definitive article.

Honestly, we don’t have to continue this discussion as I don’t believe either of us will change our thoughts. However, I do suggest that you research the points I mentioned above, and also consider what @JosephZ just said below this post.

Yes, I went through your link and read that the oldest archeological finding that referenced the word "Al" was from that tomb epithet in reference to a goddess. This was in your definitive article link on the word "Al". Yes I included the video of a scholar who reads, writes, and speaks quranic Arabic, and holds a bachelor's degree in Islamic law who in his video explains that the "Al" of "Allah" does not mean "the" but denotes the diety of whichever name comes after of before it. I just think that if you have an arab that is completely fluent with quranic arabic the religion of muhammad then I should listen to him rather than you. I will put youtube video below.

 

[All4Christ]

Yes, I went through your link and read that the oldest archeological finding that referenced the word "Al" was from that tomb epithet in reference to a goddess. This was in your definitive article link on the word "Al". Yes I included the video of a scholar who reads, writes, and speaks quranic Arabic, and holds a bachelor's degree in Islamic law who in his video explains that the "Al" of "Allah" does not mean "the" but denotes the diety of whichever name comes after of before it. I just think that if you have an arab that is completely fluent with quranic arabic the religion of muhammad then I should listen to him rather than you. I will put youtube video below.

I won’t spend time watching entire YouTube videos. I honestly don’t have time to do that and don’t watch them in general. If you give me a time number of the specific part you want me to listen to, I will do that - or better yet, I will read scholarly articles if you send links. The reference Al in the link I sent was a definitive article with the goddess, not “deity”. The whole article was about the definitive article.

That said, in respect to the OP, I will refrain from continuing as it wasn’t his intent in starting the thread.

 

[Deus Vult!]

If you ever plan to witness to a Muslim and you start out by trying to convince them that they are not worshiping the same God, you will push them even further away from Christ than they already are. They will also think that you are not only ignorant of their religion, but also of the other two Abrahamic faiths, including your own.

Reaching out to Muslims with the gospel doesn't require insulting their intelligence, their God, or their prophet.

"Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and respect;" (1 peter 3:15)

Christ Himself would not affirm a false prophet to accommodate the sensibilities of those who follow that false prophet.

 

[Deus Vult!]

I won’t spend time watching entire YouTube videos. I honestly don’t have time to do that and don’t watch them in general. If you give me a time number of the specific part you want me to listen to, I will do that - or better yet, I will read scholarly articles if you send links. The reference Al in the link I sent was a definitive article with the goddess, not “deity”. The whole article was about the definitive article.

That said, in respect to the OP, I will refrain from continuing as it wasn’t his intent in starting the thread.

A "god" or "goddess" would be a "deity". Again I will just point to the obvious. If following your logic then the name Ishmaal in the quran would be transliterated as "the Ishma". Its nonsense. If you dont do youtube that's fine, j wish I could stay away from it at times myself. If I have more time I will try and find a link to a document saying as much as the youtube did. Making sure it is authored by an Arabic scholar.

 

[JosephZ]

Islam departed from the God of the Bible when they claimed it wasn't Isaac that was offered on the alter by Abraham but that it was Ishmael. After this, it is all about Ishmael and his seed that would receive the promise of God.
The God of the Bible plainly told Abraham that Ishmael has been rejected, and your seed shall be in Isaac. As I said, this where Islam departed from the God of the bible. They are serving another God, one who does not exist.

How does this misunderstanding by most, but not all, Muslims change who their God is? Earlier in this thread I posted several verses from the Qur'an that show that Muslims are worshiping the God of the Bible. Below are two of them:

"We will worship thy God, the God of our forefathers Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac, the One God; and unto Him will we surrender ourselves." (Qur'an 2:133)

“God has spoken the truth, so follow the religion of Abraham... (Qur'an 3:95)

As we know Abraham put his faith into the one true God: "I have sworn to the LORD God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth..." (Genesis 14:22)

What other God could the Qur'an be describing in the above verses?

 

[Charlie24]

How does this misunderstanding by most, but not all, Muslims change who their God is? Earlier in this thread I posted several verses from the Qur'an that show that Muslims are worshiping the God of the Bible. Below are two of them:

"We will worship thy God, the God of our forefathers Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac, the One God; and unto Him will we surrender ourselves." (Qur'an 2:133)

“God has spoken the truth, so follow the religion of Abraham... (Qur'an 3:95)

As we know Abraham put his faith into the one true God: "I have sworn to the LORD God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth..." (Genesis 14:22)

What other God could the Qur'an be describing in the above verses?

How can Islam be worshiping the God of Abraham, the God of the Bible, when they deny the promise God made to Abraham that Isaac is the chosen seed.

They are lying and saying Ismael is the chosen seed. By denying Isaac they have denied his genealogy is traced to the promised Messiah, Christ.

They have departed from the God of the Bible and serving another god.

If you deny Christ God will deny you.

 

[JosephZ]

Christ Himself would not affirm a false prophet to accommodate the sensibilities of those who follow that false prophet.

How exactly does this grant us as followers of Christ the will to speak bad things about others? Where does speaking bad things about others fit in with the fruit of the Spirit or loving our Muslim neighbors as we love ourselves?

 

[JosephZ]

How can Islam be worshiping the God of Abraham, the God of the Bible, when they deny the promise God made to Abraham that Isaac is the chosen seed.
They are lying and saying Ismael is the chosen seed. By denying Isaac they have denied his genealogy is traced to the promised Messiah, Christ.
They have departed from the God of the Bible and serving another god.
If you deny Christ God will deny you.

It was neither Isaac or Ishmael that was the chosen seed, it is Jesus:

"Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ." (Galatians 3:16)

Islam teaches the same genealogy as what is found in the Bible and Jesus' lineage can be traced back to Isaac.

In Islam, Jesus is the promised Messiah sent to Israel confirming the validity of the Torah, and the nation of Israel and the family of Jesus is put above all others.

"O Children of Israel! Remember My favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I favored you over all nations" (Qur'an 2:47)

"God chose Adam, and Noah, and the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran, over all mankind." (Quran 3:33)

Using your analogy, wouldn't Jews also be worshiping a god other than the God of the Bible since they deny Christ?

 

[Charlie24]

It was neither Isaac or Ishmael that was the chosen seed, it is Jesus:

"Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ." (Galatians 3:16)

Islam teaches the same genealogy as what is found in the Bible and Jesus' lineage can be traced back to Isaac.

View attachment 269269
In Islam, Jesus is the promised Messiah sent to Israel confirming the validity of the Torah and the nation of Israel and the family of Jesus is put above all others.

"O Children of Israel! Remember My favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I favored you over all nations" (Qur'an 2:47)

"God chose Adam, and Noah, and the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran, over all mankind." (Quran 3:33)

Using your analogy, wouldn't Jews would also be worshiping a god other than the God of the Bible since they deny Christ?

Rom. 9:7
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

When you study to understand what this means we can continue the conversation.

 

[JosephZ]

Rom. 9:7
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

When you study to understand what this means we can continue the conversation.

You said that Isaac was the chosen seed.

...they deny the promise God made to Abraham that Isaac is the chosen seed.
They are lying and saying Ismael is the chosen seed. By denying Isaac they have denied his genealogy is traced to the promised Messiah, Christ.

That is not correct. Jesus is the chosen seed.

Once again, Islam teaches that Jesus is the Messiah who was sent to the nation of Israel and is a descendant of Isaac. Islam doesn't teach that Jesus is a descendant of Ishmael.

Since Muslims deny Christ as their Lord and Savior, they are not considered children of the promise and will not inherit eternal life. Since this is also true of Jews, according to the analogy you gave earlier, wouldn't they also be worshiping a god other than the God of the Bible?

 

[Deus Vult!]

Because the God

How does this misunderstanding by most, but not all, Muslims change who their God is? Earlier in this thread I posted several verses from the Qur'an that show that Muslims are worshiping the God of the Bible. Below are two of them:

"We will worship thy God, the God of our forefathers Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac, the One God; and unto Him will we surrender ourselves." (Qur'an 2:133)

“God has spoken the truth, so follow the religion of Abraham... (Qur'an 3:95)

As we know Abraham put his faith into the one true God: "I have sworn to the LORD God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth..." (Genesis 14:22)

What other God could the Qur'an be describing in the above verses?

Because the God that Abraham worshipped appeared to him as Three persons and yet Abraham knew it was his One Lord. Genesis (18:1-3). Abraham knew that God is a unity of three, a Trinity. This passage proves Abraham's recognition of a trinity in the unity of the Godhead, thus Abraham calls him "Lord" right after the chapter states that the Lord appeared to him there in Mamre.
Muhammad stated explicitly that God is not three. Muhammad claimed that the quran was delivered directly to him from the angel Gabriel by the command of "Allah". Therefore, according to this claim, the logical conclusion is that their god "Allah" told Muhammad to teach his followers that God is not three. Anyone can say to follow the God of Abraham, but if right after that they tell them that God is not three this directly contradicts who the God of Abraham is... dont be surprised by contradictions in the quran, the book is an in depth encyclopedia of contradictions. One only needs to flip through a couple of pages of the quran to see them.