The GOALS of the SEVENTIETH WEEK are KEY TOPICS of the NEW TESTAMENT.

[Spiritual Jew]

So, his anointing occurred at his baptism and he continued in the power of the Holy Ghost for the next 3 1/2 years.

Yes, I find that to be a very reasonable way of looking at it. I have no problem with that view at all.

Actually, I see the ‘most holy’ as Christ plus his Church. Thanks for your post and the good scriptures.

That's reasonable. Thanks for your posts as well. Very good information that people should think carefully about.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

What needs to be kept in mind, some of are not arguing that nothing in Daniel 9:24 has been fulfilled. Some of us are arguing that not all 7 things have been fulfilled, which logically means the 70 weeks can't be finished yet.

It's 6 things, not 7. So, which of the 6 things listed in Daniel 9:24 do you think are not yet fulfilled? And can you share how you think those will be fulfilled in the future? Or at least share how you think one of them will be fulfilled.

IMO, unless one can convincingly prove otherwise, the transgression upon the holy city is not finished if 70 AD happened after it was allegedly finished. And that's not even taking into account that this same holy city is back on the map again, and that it doesn't remotely resemble a city that the transgression involving it is finished. That won't be true until there is the new Jerusalem first. Meaning the one Revelation 21-22 records.

Where does it say that finishing the transgression has something to do with "the transgression upon the holy city"?

As I shared earlier, I believe these scriptures relate to finishing the transgression:

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Hebrews 9:15 "That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant."

John 4:34 "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work."

Romans 4:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace".

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

 

[grafted branch]

IMO, unless one can convincingly prove otherwise, the transgression upon the holy city is not finished if 70 AD happened after it was allegedly finished. And that's not even taking into account that this same holy city is back on the map again, and that it doesn't remotely resemble a city that the transgression involving it is finished. That won't be true until there is the new Jerusalem first. Meaning the one Revelation 21-22 records.

I can see what you’re saying but if we go down the path that you’re proposing it has to lead to a conclusion that makes sense.

Unless there is another view we can examine, one of the views already discussed is true.

Personally I have found when studying the scriptures it rarely give me what I want it to say and I have to adjust my thinking.

Do you currently have a view that can pin point when the 70th week will be finished?

 

[DavidPT]

Where does it say that finishing the transgression has something to do with "the transgression upon the holy city"?

This is what the text says, at least in the KJV.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

First it says this---Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city. It is then followed by this---to finish the transgression. Why would one not apply the latter to all of the former? This alone is saying, in order to finish the trangression, an entire 70 weeks are required. That means once the 70 weeks have been fulfilled, the trangression is entirely finished. Why then did 70 AD happen to the holy city after the transgression upon it was allegedly finished? That might be like someone going to prison for 10 years to pay for a crime they committed, then after they finish this 10 year prison sentence, they are later punished for this same crime yet again. That 10 years settled their debt they owed for their crime. The same is true when the transgression upon the holy city is finished. One doesn't then punish the holy city afterwards by destroying it after the transgression upon it is finished.

 

[Timtofly]

What about Satans little season? Are you saying no transgression takes place during this time? Or are you saying a new type of sin happens(not Adams flesh and sin)?

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

According to this there is no old transgression nor a new transgression. No one even breaks a law. Was there an intent for battle? Yes, but nothing happened, because God stopped any action and fire consumed all those humans. Is intent actually breaking a law in this scenario? Or would they have actually had to do something beside "arrive at their destination"?

When Satan was bound it was pronounced he would have a little season after the 1,000 years. Unless one actually acknowledges this 1,000 years, they cannot claim a "little season" as being literal either.

 

[grafted branch]

According to this there is no old transgression nor a new transgression. No one even breaks a law. Was there an intent for battle? Yes, but nothing happened, because God stopped any action and fire consumed all those humans. Is intent actually breaking a law in this scenario? Or would they have actually had to do something beside "arrive at their destination"?

When Satan was bound it was pronounced he would have a little season after the 1,000 years. Unless one actually acknowledges this 1,000 years, they cannot claim a "little season" as being literal either.

Let me get this straight;

1 Satan deceives the nations which includes his original deception in the garden of Eden resulting in the first transgression.

2 Satan is bound for 1,000 years in which there is no deception or transgression taking place.

3 Satan is loosed and deceives once again but no transgressions will result this time.


Why would fire from God come down and devour them? Is going up on the breadth of the earth the reason they get devoured?

 

[Timtofly]

Let me get this straight;

1 Satan deceives the nations which includes his original deception in the garden of Eden resulting in the first transgression.

2 Satan is bound for 1,000 years in which there is no deception or transgression taking place.

3 Satan is loosed and deceives once again but no transgressions will result this time.


Why would fire from God come down and devour them? Is going up on the breadth of the earth the reason they get devoured?

Choosing to follow Satan is the only reason necessary. One does not actually have to act on that choice, other than they did travel across the earth. One third of the angels followed Satan and were held in chains for thousands of years. Humans on the other hand are physically destroyed, yet live on, eternal, in the LOF.

 

[grafted branch]

Choosing to follow Satan is the only reason necessary. One does not actually have to act on that choice, other than they did travel across the earth. One third of the angels followed Satan and were held in chains for thousands of years. Humans on the other hand are physically destroyed, yet live on, eternal, in the LOF.

Ok, assuming you’re correct, people can follow Satan and be devoured by fire all while transgression is finished, sin has ended, reconciliation for iniquity has happened, and everlasting righteousness has been brought in (not just spiritually but physically).

I just don’t know what to say here, I personally can’t accept this idea as it has no other scriptural support.

I probably shouldn’t even ask this but what happens when these sinless, righteous folks stand at the Great White Throne? Are they guilty or innocent?

 

[Timtofly]

Ok, assuming you’re correct, people can follow Satan and be devoured by fire all while transgression is finished, sin has ended, reconciliation for iniquity has happened, and everlasting righteousness has been brought in (not just spiritually but physically).

I just don’t know what to say here, I personally can’t accept this idea as it has no other scriptural support.

I probably shouldn’t even ask this but what happens when these sinless, righteous folks stand at the Great White Throne? Are they guilty or innocent?

Consumed by fire ends in the LOF.

Why would you question all this righteousness? Most posters here declare that righteousness already completed in the first century. What difference do those self righteous people who follow Satan now, have from those righteous who follow Satan in 1,000 years?

 

[grafted branch]

Why would you question all this righteousness? Most posters here declare that righteousness already completed in the first century. What difference do those self righteous people who follow Satan now, have from those righteous who follow Satan in 1,000 years?

That’s is a great point!

There would be no difference. That’s why the Daniel 9:24 list can’t be understood as physically fulfilled for at least some, if not all, the items on the list.

 

[Timtofly]

That’s is a great point!

There would be no difference. That’s why the Daniel 9:24 list can’t be understood as physically fulfilled for at least some, if not all, the items on the list.

No difference spiritually. However the 1,000 year reign will be the physical difference. Jesus will be on earth as ruler, to get to know humans on their own terms for 1,000 years. Humans will understand God directly on God's terms. That is the difference.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Most posters here declare that righteousness already completed in the first century. What difference do those self righteous people who follow Satan now, have from those righteous who follow Satan in 1,000 years?

Thanks for bringing up the fourth goal of the seventieth week. Here is how it was understood by New Testament writers to have been fulfilled.

• Fourth, they enabled the righteousness of Christ to be credited to those that believe on him irrespective of the wrongs we may have done.

The final three clauses of Daniel’s prophecy have been subject to confusion because commentators have focused on second coming theories, failing to recognise the centrality of the Cross in Bible prophecy. What could ‘everlasting righteousness’ possibly mean, they ask, except the millennial reign of Christ? They miss the point.

Everlasting righteousness! Speaking of it, Isaiah said, “The righteous one, my servant, shall make many to be accounted righteous.” (Isaiah 53:11) Paul put it this way, “By the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous ... (Romans 5:18-19) For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:21) It is wonder enough that God does not impute sin to the believer’s account, but what is even more astonishing is that He actually credits to our account the righteousness of Christ instead. And the promise is now! It is not a dream for some future age to come.

 

[Timtofly]

Thanks for bringing up the fourth goal of the seventieth week. Here is how it was understood by New Testament writers to have been fulfilled.

• Fourth, they enabled the righteousness of Christ to be credited to those that believe on him irrespective of the wrongs we may have done.

The final three clauses of Daniel’s prophecy have been subject to confusion because commentators have focused on second coming theories, failing to recognise the centrality of the Cross in Bible prophecy. What could ‘everlasting righteousness’ possibly mean, they ask, except the millennial reign of Christ? They miss the point.

Everlasting righteousness! Speaking of it, Isaiah said, “The righteous one, my servant, shall make many to be accounted righteous.” (Isaiah 53:11) Paul put it this way, “By the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous ... (Romans 5:18-19) For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:21) It is wonder enough that God does not impute sin to the believer’s account, but what is even more astonishing is that He actually credits to our account the righteousness of Christ instead. And the promise is now! It is not a dream for some future age to come.

Living it out in the physical is not a dream.

Believe it or not. The Millennium does not negate any point you made about imputing righteousness in the here and now.

No one, up until now has taught the correct Millennium. It is no surprise that such erroneous teachings even by those accepting the Millennium has had skepticism. That is how Satan wins the argument is by casting doubt on what humans know and have been taught. Satan did that in the Garden with Eve, and he has never changed how he deceives people.

Why has no one taught that all of Adam's flesh will be removed prior to the start of the Millennium? It would seem because the church itself rejects the written truth for man's theology. Any opposition is just called heresy and physical death in some instances.

Many will teach half truths and believe lies for this very point covers all the bases. Sin is not imputed. I am not saying people on this forum willfully think they are wrong, and deliberately mislead people. Do you think Eve really thought Adam would be hurt from disobeying God? God's Word does not claim Eve deliberately deceived Adam, nor am I implying that Satan is the cause of all theology that is deceptive, even if it seems to be true to God's Word. The majority of theology is just human understanding because it makes sense to fallen humans with a sin nature.

The issue is that in the Millennium there will be no more sin nor a sin nature. And that is pure righteousness that comes naturally and is not imputed. Since the Cross, righteousness has been imputed, because without it we all would be lost and dead in that place made for Satan and his angels that rebelled along with him.

And it was because of Adam's disobedience, that we are in Adam's fallen image and not sons of God. I am still looking for a satisfactory answer why God cannot have a Millennium Sabbath where righteousness dwells and not just imputed.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This is what the text says, at least in the KJV.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

First it says this---Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city. It is then followed by this---to finish the transgression. Why would one not apply the latter to all of the former?

I don't understand your question. Can you try to clarify what you're asking?

This alone is saying, in order to finish the trangression, an entire 70 weeks are required. That means once the 70 weeks have been fulfilled, the trangression is entirely finished.

Right.

Why then did 70 AD happen to the holy city after the transgression upon it was allegedly finished?

Did you read the verses I quoted that I believe relate to finishing the transgression? If so, what are your thoughts on that?

You're asking me a question that you shouldn't be asking me because it's not according to my understanding of what finishing the transgression means. I see finishing the transgression as being very similar to making an end of sins. It's not the literal finishing of transgressions or the literal end of sins, it's talking about what Jesus did to take away the transgressions and sins of the Jewish people (what He did to provide for the opportunity for their sins to be forgiven).

That might be like someone going to prison for 10 years to pay for a crime they committed, then after they finish this 10 year prison sentence, they are later punished for this same crime yet again. That 10 years settled their debt they owed for their crime. The same is true when the transgression upon the holy city is finished. One doesn't then punish the holy city afterwards by destroying it after the transgression upon it is finished.

You are not interpreting what finishing the transgression means correctly, so as long as that is the case you're not going to understanding the fulfillment of that particular prophecy.

By the way, what is your understanding of the fulfillment of finishing the transgression? I don't see where you've explained that. You seem to think it relates to finishing the transgression upon the holy city. How will that be accomplished in your view?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Thanks for bringing up the fourth goal of the seventieth week. Here is how it was understood by New Testament writers to have been fulfilled.

• Fourth, they enabled the righteousness of Christ to be credited to those that believe on him irrespective of the wrongs we may have done.

The final three clauses of Daniel’s prophecy have been subject to confusion because commentators have focused on second coming theories, failing to recognise the centrality of the Cross in Bible prophecy. What could ‘everlasting righteousness’ possibly mean, they ask, except the millennial reign of Christ? They miss the point.

They also seem to forget about Satan's little season. How can the thousand years represent everlasting righteousness in light of the fact that Satan's little season of wickedness follows that?

Everlasting righteousness! Speaking of it, Isaiah said, “The righteous one, my servant, shall make many to be accounted righteous.” (Isaiah 53:11) Paul put it this way, “By the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous ... (Romans 5:18-19) For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:21) It is wonder enough that God does not impute sin to the believer’s account, but what is even more astonishing is that He actually credits to our account the righteousness of Christ instead. And the promise is now! It is not a dream for some future age to come.

Exactly.

 

[Timtofly]

They also seem to forget about Satan's little season. How can the thousand years represent everlasting righteousness in light of the fact that Satan's little season of wickedness follows that?

So any travel done by humans across the earth is considered wickedness? Eve was a wicked person because she listened to Satan? Should Eve even be allowed in Paradise ever again, or was she too wicked? There is no verse that claims there is wickedness on earth at any point after the 1,000 years starts nor at the end of the 1,000 years.

 

[jeffweedaman]

Thanks for bringing up the fourth goal of the seventieth week. Here is how it was understood by New Testament writers to have been fulfilled.

• Fourth, they enabled the righteousness of Christ to be credited to those that believe on him irrespective of the wrongs we may have done.

The final three clauses of Daniel’s prophecy have been subject to confusion because commentators have focused on second coming theories, failing to recognise the centrality of the Cross in Bible prophecy. What could ‘everlasting righteousness’ possibly mean, they ask, except the millennial reign of Christ? They miss the point.

Everlasting righteousness! Speaking of it, Isaiah said, “The righteous one, my servant, shall make many to be accounted righteous.” (Isaiah 53:11) Paul put it this way, “By the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous ... (Romans 5:18-19) For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)

It is wonder enough that God does not impute sin to the believer’s account, but what is even more astonishing is that He actually credits to our account the righteousness of Christ instead. And the promise is now! It is not a dream for some future age to come.

Absolutely. Love the underlined in your Quote.


Heb 9
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption


He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

It's not a leap at all. Daniel 9:24-27 is all about Jesus, so that should be the first thing that enters someone's mind when thinking of making an end of sins in relation to Jesus.

The holy city is no longer earthly Jerusalem but now is the new heavenly Jerusalem. So, if you are thinking that modern day earthly Jerusalem is the holy city then you are sadly mistaken.

Honestly, I find you to be hard to follow. Can you plainly tell me how exactly you think the making an end of sins will be fulfilled according to the prophecy in Daniel 9:24?

Hi the end of sins brings reconciliation for Daniels people and the Holy city Jerusalem. This is a the end of the 70th week which is the 2nd coming portrayed clearly in Zech 14. This is the end of sins as far as Israel goes this is when Hosea says not my people shall become sons of the living God. Jer 3 talks about this change too for Jerusalem.

14 “Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. 15 And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.
16 “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.
17 “At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.
18 “In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers.

Now in Zech 14 it is the day the LORD is king over all the earth and that is when the throne of the LORD is in Jerusalem because they recognize Jesus is both Christ and LORD this is what makes an end of sins for Daniels people as in that day just like Dan 2 shows the kingdom coming leaves no trace of mans rule and all authority is taken not just some spiritual authority from afar but total dominion from the river to the seas to the ends of the earth. God has not cast off Israel and will perform His word exactly as it is written. In that day in Zech 14 they will say the LORD is one it is the day the Mt of Olives will split in two and the new river flows. You have taken the allegorical path even thought the literal path makes sense and lines up with all the other prophecies to tell the same story. Your allegories contradict the literal and in that way we are at odds.

Do you see out side in real time Israel is a nation and there is a movement to build the 3rd temple at the same time a movement for a NWO is open and every other literal theme in the book is on the table and you can't see how people can take a futuristic view? I can't see how you can hold your position either so it is always going to be a stalemate.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Hi the end of sins brings reconciliation for Daniels people and the Holy city Jerusalem. This is a the end of the 70th week which is the 2nd coming portrayed clearly in Zech 14. This is the end of sins as far as Israel goes this is when Hosea says not my people shall become sons of the living God.

Are you suggesting that no one in Israel will sin ever again at that point? I was hoping you would be more straightforward with your answer this time, but it doesn't look like it.

Jer 3 talks about this change too for Jerusalem.

14 “Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. 15 And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.
16 “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.
17 “At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.
18 “In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers.

Now in Zech 14 it is the day the LORD is king over all the earth and that is when the throne of the LORD is in Jerusalem because they recognize Jesus is both Christ and LORD this is what makes an end of sins for Daniels people as in that day just like Dan 2 shows the kingdom coming leaves no trace of mans rule and all authority is taken not just some spiritual authority from afar but total dominion from the river to the seas to the ends of the earth. God has not cast off Israel and will perform His word exactly as it is written. In that day in Zech 14 they will say the LORD is one it is the day the Mt of Olives will split in two and the new river flows. You have taken the allegorical path even thought the literal path makes sense and lines up with all the other prophecies to tell the same story. Your allegories contradict the literal and in that way we are at odds.

Do you see out side in real time Israel is a nation and there is a movement to build the 3rd temple at the same time a movement for a NWO is open and every other literal theme in the book is on the table and you can't see how people can take a futuristic view? I can't see how you can hold your position either so it is always going to be a stalemate.

Have you somehow forgotten about Satan's little season that occurs after the thousand years? How does your view that the end of sins comes at the return of Christ fit with your belief that Satan's little season occurs after the return of Christ (a literal thousand years later)?

 

[Christian Gedge]

Sorry, I’ve been out of town for a few days. Let’s now look at how the fifth goal of the seventieth week was understood by New Testament writers to have been fulfilled.

• Fifth, they (the weeks) sealed the vision, authenticating Jesus as the One from God and his ministry as the fulfilment of the promise.

The final two objectives were achieved following the Cross and by the conclusion of the 70th week. To ‘seal up vision and prophecy’ is speaking of the authentication and completion of Messiah’s ministry.

@Spiritual Jew provides three verses in his post #10 and I re-quote one of them here.

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished." (Luke 18:31)​

This is not meant to infer that prophecy (per se) has ended, or that nothing of future events can be anticipated in the sense that a Preterist might understand it. But ‘vision and prophecy’, in the context given, relates to the messianic purpose which was fulfilled in Jesus Christ and sealed when the times in question were completed. As for last-day events predicted in the book of Revelation, these are independent of the atonement and correspond to Daniel chapter seven, not to Daniel chapter nine. Bible students, therefore, need to discern which area of prophecy has been sealed up and which has not.