The General Election

[norbie]

Everyone is predicting a win for labour.

I believe that the liberals only maintained their power by bribing the public with materialism each election.

As my brother said: He only voted for the liberals because of the baby bonus at the last election, which was conveniently announced around election time.

But now Howard has shot himself in the foot with workchoices.

But part of me feels that the seceret rulers behind the government decided to get workchoices in at any cost and probably thought Howard has done his run.

I think the public has finally become awake with Workchoices.

Little johny says to big Peter: ' come on now, you are a super treasurer with billions of money to spent, let's go and buy us some votes' People are silly enough again for a handful dollars they do everything, even selling their country out.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

Being a bit circumspect, to a lesser extent Labor does it also, but not in such an obvious way. Both the 2 main parties will put out appealing things in the last 2 weeks of the campaign to get people to vote. It surprises me Howard has released this so early in the campaign, and I don't understand why the campaign needs to run for 6 weeks, given it's strategy to put *key* (errr...Bribe) policies in the last 2 so people will remember them.

At uni we have union elections for the student union and it's utterly pathetic. Something about putting more money in so that the price of beer can be lowered at the pub...its pathetic. There's about 1 million other support services but we need alcohol prices lowered so that students can get more drunk that they already do. Mind you all these idiots are young labor and liberal wannabe's so I guess that's where all our pollies come from. *disclaimer, none of this may be true - well the bit about the young labor and liberals anyway.

It's also funny how many politic ans outside of the front bench have various criminal convictions against them, but because nobody cares, they keep getting voted in.

Yes I'm a cynic.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

The best argument for voluntary student unionism was the behaviour of the student unionists themselves. Probably one of the better Howard policies.

 

[lmnop9876]

The best argument for voluntary student unionism was the behaviour of the student unionists themselves. Probably one of the better Howard policies.

I agree. I am a student, and I am not a Liberal supporter, and I agree with Voluntary Student Unionism. I did not like paying my student union fees so that I could receive zero services (I get all the exact same services now as I did before VSU), while watching the student association spend all our fees on drinking nights and social events that encourage students' abuse of alcohol.

 

[DavinMochrie]

I think the problem is that, given the choice to vote or not, the votes would mainly consist of middle/upper class. Looking at sociological studies from uni, I think it was something like 80% of the working class wounldn't vote if they didn't have to, and that, instead, it is the wealthier middle & upper classes that are interested in official politics. If that happens, the government is more likely to appease their voters - namely the middle/upper classes - and widen the already-viewable gap of inequality between the classes. If the parties don't need the votes of the working class, or those who are disinterested, I'm not optimistic enough to believe that they would make decisions benefitting the non-voters.

Steffi I agree with you...but..

I'm not sure if there is a 'working class' in Australia??

Working class belongs to the broad category of the middle class. Where you set in the middle class depends on your wealth. Upper, middle, lower middle class.

But what is cruddy, is that people base you on your parents income.

I am one of the few people who basically got nothing from my parents but grief. They are middle class, but I'm completely and utterly independant. That will never change.

So people may be middle class, but the children go out and work at McDonalds say and get totally done in by Workchoices.

I've had many unskilled jobs when I left High School. Due to circumstances I couldn't go to university, despite being close to the top of my class and more than capable of doing it.

So I had to work.

I will tell you this from my experience......95% of bosses will exploit workchoices if they can get away with it. Notice I left 5% for the decent ones.

Anyone who has been working class (as you called it) can see Workchoices for what it is. Why? Because we have had experience out there. It happens.

This is why the Liberals will lose the election.

 

[DavinMochrie]

*Double Post*

 

[Neenie1]

What do you mean there's no "working class"


I am noticing that the divide between the rich and poor seems to be shrinking and now the middle class seems to be either getting ahead or sinking back down to working class.

Believe me working class is alive and well.

I also agree with what is said about Work choices, that most employers will abuse it, especially if it is in their favour to do so.



If Labour gets in can they get rid of work choices straight away or is it a bit trickier than that.

Yes I am a fence sitter with a bit more favour leaning towards Liberal, however I find this workchoices really frightening.

 

[DavinMochrie]

What do you mean there's no "working class"

Well I can't explain something i never said. What I said was:

I'm not sure if there is a 'working class' in Australia??

As in I'm not sure. Simply because there is not one middle class.

What was called the old working class has become 'lower middle class'.

Class implies things that are fixed, but with opportunities there are today, people are not stuck in a class necesarily.

There is however an Underclass, or rather folks living below the poverty line.

I know people who are in jobs that were traditionally 'working class' that I wouldn't classify them as that. I am talking about the trades.

When I was younger if was the guys who did trades who were almost like the upper middle class. They had the money for big cars and all sorts of toys. In fact even today people own electrical and plumbing businesses that turn over millions. Hardly working class. That's definately middle class.

Whereas myself working at Safeway earning X amount per hour - I would say I was in a lower class.

 

[Neenie1]

OK, yeah you are right. I think the middle class is disappearing though. People seem to get poorer, but the rich get richer. Now how to get to the rich part and then give some to the poor is what I want to do, but how I will do it I have no clue.

 

[norbie]

OK, yeah you are right. I think the middle class is disappearing though. People seem to get poorer, but the rich get richer. Now how to get to the rich part and then give some to the poor is what I want to do, but how I will do it I have no clue.

Oh you are a great Lady, but I can tell you it's not realy possible to be honest and give to the poor and get rich. But does it realy make someone happy to be very rich?

 

[TheDag]

Well Howard and costello have mentioned tax cuts. I wonder if anyone remembers a similar promise years ago? They promised tax cuts and then the day after the election they came out and said things aren't as good as we thought we may have to scrap the tax cuts. Of course people had mentioned that before the election and howard and costello dismised their comments. Makes me think I can't rely on them to deliver these tax cuts. Of course I don't vote for people because they offer tax cuts. I vote on who I think has the best policies and will actually implement them. I'm happy not to get a tax cut if they put the money into public transport or hospital or education. Last comment is that the tax cuts they promise generally (if you read the fine print) the tax cut only comes in well after the election if they win!

 

[norbie]

Agree with you! $ 15/week won't make us much reacher with the continuing price increase - BUT 34 Billions could make a lot of water for this dry country.

 

[KristyAnne]

Well Howard and costello have mentioned tax cuts. I wonder if anyone remembers a similar promise years ago? They promised tax cuts and then the day after the election they came out and said things aren't as good as we thought we may have to scrap the tax cuts. Of course people had mentioned that before the election and howard and costello dismised their comments. Makes me think I can't rely on them to deliver these tax cuts. Of course I don't vote for people because they offer tax cuts. I vote on who I think has the best policies and will actually implement them. I'm happy not to get a tax cut if they put the money into public transport or hospital or education. Last comment is that the tax cuts they promise generally (if you read the fine print) the tax cut only comes in well after the election if they win!

Agree with you! $ 15/week won't make us much reacher with the continuing price increase - BUT 34 Billions could make a lot of water for this dry country.

Great points, guys.

 

[DavinMochrie]

Well Howard and costello have mentioned tax cuts. I wonder if anyone remembers a similar promise years ago? They promised tax cuts and then the day after the election they came out and said things aren't as good as we thought we may have to scrap the tax cuts. Of course people had mentioned that before the election and howard and costello dismised their comments. Makes me think I can't rely on them to deliver these tax cuts. Of course I don't vote for people because they offer tax cuts. I vote on who I think has the best policies and will actually implement them. I'm happy not to get a tax cut if they put the money into public transport or hospital or education. Last comment is that the tax cuts they promise generally (if you read the fine print) the tax cut only comes in well after the election if they win!

Of Course!

Maybe not many people take notice of what they are doing, but they have been consistant liers everytime elections come around. Using fear and bribes to get what they want.

Make no mistake, the otherside is the same animal just with different stripes.

It amazes me when Americans idolise their politicans and blindly follow them. I'm glad that Aussies on the whole are more cynical.

Also

Thou shalt not bear false witness

How seriously as a Christian do you take the ten commandments?

Are they just guidelines? Are they a little fuzzy? Maybe God was just having a laugh??

How many of these pollies on either side are doing this everyday. Exagerating and deliberately taking things out of context from the other person?

 

[TheDag]

Of Course!

Maybe not many people take notice of what they are doing, but they have been consistant liers everytime elections come around. Using fear and bribes to get what they want.

Make no mistake, the otherside is the same animal just with different stripes.

Yes I agree both sides do this. My main point was if you say we might not be able to give the promised tax cuts after all on the morning after the election (on tv shows starting at 9am est) then you can say with confidence that they never had any intention of following that promise. It may have been from something like that that the famous It wasn't a core promise line came from.
I also acknowledge that even if a party wins an election they may not be able to follow through on promises if parliament does not approve. Currently with the govt. having control of both houses that should be no problem.


I will say one of the politicians I admire most was John Hewson. Ignore what you thought of his policies and realise that he told us up front what you would get if you voted for him. His oponent just focused on a scare campaign. he was also the first one to not object to a member of his party being banned from parliament for a day or two if they crossed the line. Previously they would jump up and down and rant and rave in those situations.