The Gap Theory...

[GenemZ]

I was thinking about the words create and make/made. I checked through Genesis 1 again, and in the beginning Elohim created the heaven and earth. But later, it says - let the waters bring forth (whales, birds and living creatures) and let the earth bring forth: the living creature - cattle and creeping thing, according to their kind, and beast of the earth; according to his kind. I double checked again, and beast of the earth (KJV) is
another separate kind to the living creature, but it is also brought forth from the earth.

You can get worn out trying to think with English translations at times. Wouldn't it be a relief if someone could teach without an agenda the original intent of the Hebrew? Timelines and sense of sequence can be lost otherwise. God created the souls first... and then God "saw" in his omniscience how it was to turn out.

Note: In Genesis 1:27 God created (bara) - 'out from nothing' - man in His image.

That speaks of the invisible immaterial soul being created. Then in Genesis 2, the Lord aone (not Elohim) does not create (bara) the body to have the soul live in... But, the Lord takes elements from the earth and mold and forms (jatsar) those elements into a non-living human body, making ready for it to receive the human soul and human spirit breathed into the nostrils.

And? In Genesis One when God created the animals? That speaks of their soul life. Bodies for those animal souls were not given until Genesis 2:19.

"Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals
and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what
he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature,
that was its name."

Adam was not the only one who had his body molded and formed from the elements of the earth..

The souls were created first (Gen 1). Out from nothing! (bara)

Then bodies for those souls were later (Gen 2) 'molded and formed' (jatsar) from the elements from the earth.

 

[GenemZ]

There is a mystery that I cannot solve. The letters of Paul mention principalities of darkness and archons (demons). Where did they originate?

Here is the problem. Satan wants to find a way out of his sentence. He has several ways in his attempting to do so.

One way is to establish a perfect millennial reign of his own first as a preemptive move, so Jesus Christ can not return a world as described in the Bible.

To do so... Satan has been granted permission by the Lord to try to prove himself worthy. The means by which Satan is trying to work this through is with help from his highly organized hierarchy of genius demons, who's goal is the thought control of men on earth by opinion dominance. Its one of the reasons we see the insane politically-correct concepts materialize which are manipulative and peer pressuring to force people to conform to what God's Word tells us is dead wrong.

We wrestle not against flesh and blood for that reason. Men who refuse God's grace often times end up as mere puppets of this highly organized demon echelon (principalities and powers). These demons have great power to influence thinking. They have been with Satan from the beginning of his quest to find a way out of his sentence to the Lake of Fire.

Now... that was very "nutshell" in my presentation. Ask questions please if you wish for me to elaborate.

 

[Halbhh]

Hi Brother, the NASB is my favorite, so this passage is from that translation.

Genesis 1
16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.
17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.
19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.​

The Hebrew word translated as "made" in the NASB is עָשָׂה [ʿasah], for which the principle meaning is: 1 to do, fashion, accomplish, make

It seems like more than just "set" in place (but perhaps I am wrong?).

--David

It helps us to remember from other parts of the Bible, such as the Gospel of John, that God made all things, not just some things! We may not have realized how profound that is -- how far that extends.

That it's not merely all things we know of, all that we can see or observe, but even more. Even all that is of any kind -- such as the design of nature, the laws of nature: chemistry, physics, and even physics we haven't discovered yet.

So, we can consider that if anything exists anywhere, God made it. This is our starting fact, as it were.

So it's not that God only made just the things listed in Genesis chapter 1 and 2. Moses might sense that as he saw creatures existing, that even ones he did not see in the vision would also be made by God. But that requires Moses realizes this is a vision from God, and not merely a random dream.

Now we are in a better place to think about why God says words to Moses about the Sun and moon and stars in the vision for day 4.

Why does God speak to Moses in verse 14....? He could have just shown the vision without words.

But He didn't. He spoke words to Moses, and that's verses 14-15.

What did He say there in the sense of broad meaning? What's being conveyed? That these lights in the heavens are good for us, help us, in certain ways being highlighted.

God is helping Moses understand something about what is being shown, so that Moses won't be entirely bewildered altogether or just think it a random dream.

What if Peter's vision of the unclean animals had lacked any words?....

The vision Peter saw in Acts 10, without words, would have meant nothing clear to him at all.

The same for other receivers of visions in scripture -- people aren't able to understand if there is no explanation. Words to explain or help make it have meaning.

So, an explanation is given to Moses.

In Genesis 1, you see God's words, spoken, within quotation marks.

Here's a link to my earlier post about the Sun, Moon and Stars. We know from God's words that the Sun and Moon have a use (even more than one, but one very notable one is given) for us. The whole of all that is has been designed by Him is good here on Earth. Our home the Earth is especially for us, made just-so.
The Gap Theory...post #6

 

[Calminian]

Hi Brother, the NASB is my favorite, so this passage is from that translation.

Genesis 1
16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.
17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.
19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.​

The Hebrew word translated as "made" in the NASB is עָשָׂה [ʿasah], for which the principle meaning is: 1 to do, fashion, accomplish, make

It seems like more than just "set" in place (but perhaps I am wrong?).

--David

Yes, definitely more. 'asah and bara' are used interchangeably in Gen. 1.

The best example of the interchangeability of ‘asah and bara’ might be the creation of man, described in Gen. 1:26-27.

Gen. 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
​

In this passage, both ‘asah (make) and bara’ (created) are used. Notice God first says let us “make” man. Then God “created” man. They clearly have the same meaning.

On the seventh day, we see it again. Referring back to God’s entire creation, both terms are used.

Gen. 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
​

Sarfati sums up the overreach.

Gap theorists overdraw the distinction between these words, because while they are hardly exact synonyms, they have a considerable overlap in semantic range, just as they do in English…… Certainly, bara’ is only ever used of God, but is not restricted to creatio ex hihilo. And ‘asah is sometimes used to mean ‘create ex nihilo’….. If they meant exactly the same thing there would be no reason to have multiple terms. Even synonyms, such as ‘break’ and ‘fracture’ in English, are not identical—every English speaker knows that hearts break, they don’t fracture.​

source

 

[Halbhh]

Yes, definitely more. 'asah and bara' are used interchangeably in Gen. 1.

The best example of the interchangeability of ‘asah and bara’ might be the creation of man, described in Gen. 1:26-27.

Gen. 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
​

In this passage, both ‘asah (make) and bara’ (created) are used. Notice God first says let us “make” man. Then God “created” man. They clearly have the same meaning.

On the seventh day, we see it again. Referring back to God’s entire creation, both terms are used.

Gen. 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
​

Sarfati sums up the overreach.

Gap theorists overdraw the distinction between these words, because while they are hardly exact synonyms, they have a considerable overlap in semantic range, just as they do in English…… Certainly, bara’ is only ever used of God, but is not restricted to creatio ex hihilo. And ‘asah is sometimes used to mean ‘create ex nihilo’….. If they meant exactly the same thing there would be no reason to have multiple terms. Even synonyms, such as ‘break’ and ‘fracture’ in English, are not identical—every English speaker knows that hearts break, they don’t fracture.​

source

Please consider the post just above, #123, about why words are spoken to Moses (instead of a vision without words), and some things we can conclude from that, and also then if you like the link to post#6 for more.

--------
(Long run: While we love to analyze, and understand more about various aspects of creation connected to Genesis chapter 1, the ultimate purpose of the scripture is to change us, and that requires a whole different reading than we are doing at the moment here. That requires us to lay aside all ideas, doctrines, previous thoughts, and truly listen, as if we just woke up in the first dawn of the world, and heard the words for the first time ever. These words can bring us out of a worldly state of mind (calculating, etc.), and transport us into a higher state of mind, ready to hear more from God.

So, even though we love to analyze, we ought to read this chapter once in a while with a true listening instead. God bless. Like in a month or two, just read it.)

 

[Calminian]

Please consider the post just above, #123, about why words are spoken to Moses (instead of a vision without words), and some things we can conclude from that, and also then if you like the link to post#6 for more.

But even if we figure out various issues well about Genesis chapter 1, the ultimate purpose of the scripture is to change us, and that requires a whole different reading than we are doing at the moment here. That requires us to lay aside all ideas, doctrines, previous thoughts, and truly listen, as if we just woke up in the first dawn of the world, and heard the words for the first time ever. These words can bring us out of a worldly state of mind (calculating, etc.), and transport us into a higher state of mind, ready to hear more from God.

So, even though we love to analyze, we ought to read this chapter once in a while with a true listening instead. God bless.

I read, but I don't think I got your point. Moses compiled Genesis from historical sources. You can read about that here. The Origins of Genesis: Solving the Toledoth Mystery. Moses was not contemporary to any of the events in Genesis. They all occurred before he was born. His purpose was to compile an accurate historical account the same way most historical accounts in the Bible were compiled, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It is the Bible writers that were inspired.

Per your point in this post, you're using reason to say we should abandon reason and just sort of try to achieve a higher state of mind so we can understand the text. Sounds a lot like gnosticism. I think God wants us to use the minds he gave us, and trust the men He inspired.

 

[Halbhh]

I read, but I don't think I got your point. Moses compiled Genesis from historical sources. You can read about that here. The Origins of Genesis: Solving the Toledoth Mystery. Moses was not contemporary to any of the events in Genesis. They all occurred before he was born. His purpose was to compile an accurate historical account the same way most historical accounts in the Bible were compiled, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It is the Bible writers that were inspired.

Per your point in this post, you're using reason to say we should abandon reason and just sort of try to achieve a higher state of mind so we can understand the text. Sounds a lot like gnosticism. I think God wants us to use the minds he gave us, and trust the men He inspired.

Much simpler goal on that last part than trying to achieve a higher state of mind. To listen well, so that we hear and are changed. As Christ said, His words cleanse us. If we listen. No matter how much fun it is to try to understand other things, the real purpose of the passages is paramount. I know from experience that Genesis 1 can lift you, if you let it, by truly reading, listening.