The Friend Zone

[CCHIPSS]

I honestly don't think I've ever been in a friendzone.

So you never secretly liked a boy and he never knew?

And no boy secretly liked you but befriended you instead?

Not that I doubt you. But I just find that hard to believe.

 

[r035198x]

... It definitely requires you being friendly to a girl with the ulterior motive of dating them. That shows a lack of confidence. Basically a guy becomes a girl's best friend because he thinks he's in love with her. This is a pretty classic sign of immaturity in my opinion. Then when said girl doesn't notice how "great" he is, he gets upset with her as she goes out on date after date with a string of guys that don't treat her well, while all the time he's waiting as the "perfect" guy.
...

I don't know, some people prefer to be friends first. I think most people on the forum indicated that as well.

 

[OGM]

I don't know, some people prefer to be friends first. I think most people on the forum indicated that as well.

I would never ask a female friend out. I keep a boundary and thus don't come on to friends.

 

[Lord Of The Forest]

The good thing about the friend zone is that it gave us a beautiful song.

Down by the salley gardens my love and I did meet;
She passed the salley gardens with little snow-white feet.
She bid me take love easy, as the leaves grow on the tree;
But I, being young and foolish, with her would not agree.

In a field by the river my love and I did stand,
And on my leaning shoulder she laid her snow-white hand.
She bid me take life easy, as the grass grows on the weirs;
But I was young and foolish, and now am full of tears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAW2gX7Vv_U

 

[leothelioness]

So you never secretly liked a boy and he never knew?

I have done this, but I didn't think that's what friendzone meant.

And no boy secretly liked you but befriended you instead?

If he secretly liked me, how would I know? I think it's pretty safe to say no one has "secretly" liked me.

 

[CCHIPSS]

I have done this, but I didn't think that's what friendzone meant.


If he secretly liked me, how would I know? I think it's pretty safe to say no one has "secretly" liked me.

Well in the first case, you got friend-zoned.

In the second case, you probably friend-zoned some people.

 

[Gadarene]

If you're in the friend zone, chances are you're lusting or obsessing over the object of your affection (and at that point, you're treating them like an object; a trophy to be won, rather than a person to be invested in).

Wrong.

You're hanging on to a false hope, a comfortably painful fantasy. In my experience--including looking back at my own attitude--such men will display a certain attitude:

"I'm a nice guy, but I'm also pathetic. I haven't been on many dates (if any). I have no confidence, and I can't 'fake it 'til I make it.' She's an angel, and women are just so far above men, they should be treated like princesses. Every other guy is just a jerk who doesn't deserve her, but I do because (reasons)."

There's a sense of "ownership" from such boys, often from insecurity that also develops jealousy.

How in the world does someone with such low self-esteem feel "entitled" to anything?

I don't have this mindset anymore, but it does really get my goat what utter unsympathetic bollocks is claimed about it by people. And it's usually men who are given crap for this and not women - I don't see "Nice Girl (tm) Syndrome" existing as a meme, even though it certainly does exist as behaviour.

Such men are usually shy, lacking the confidence to talk to women as friends, because all they see is relationship potential (or a lack of it).

Or maybe because they lack confidence due to lacking self-esteem.

They make these broad assumptions within seconds of meeting a woman, leading to superficial fantasies based on appearance and a highly idealized fiction regarding the person of their "affection."

Yes, of course women never do this, but no-one is giving them a hard time for being immature

It may or may not be factual, but it seems such men also have very intense addictions to pornography that have more to do with power than actual sexual attraction. These fantasies may include forced sex or domination of some kind, leading to some very, very dark taboos.

"It may or may not be factual, but I'm going to claim it anyway!"

All in all, anyone who complains about the "friend zone" raises many red flags. I don't necessarily think less of them, but it makes me wonder about their perspectives. In my experience with "digging into" such folks, I usually find at least a few of the same attitudes and actions I had.

Maybe you shouldn't project then

All of this can be solved by seeing women as human beings, not trophies or pieces of meat. While claiming that women should be treated like princesses, many of these boys have actually arrived at the conclusion women are lower than them, a gender to serve them and meet their needs. Sort of like a mother, but one they can dominate and control in some twisted ways.

*nods respectfully towards you*

Anyway, my experience of this was partly due to low self-esteem on my part, but also due to some really crappy communication on the part of the girls I was involved with. I've had the "why can't I meet a nice guy like you" line on more than one occasion, sometimes from girls who knew I liked them. I've also had the "but girls do like nice guys" without any further detail or explanation about what exactly they find attractive in a guy.

I put it down to crappy communication and youthful frustration on the part of both the guys and gals, but why do that when you can push the usual ooga-booga men are crap narrative.....

 

[leothelioness]

Well in the first case, you got friend-zoned.

In the second case, you probably friend-zoned some people.

Or maybe it's the other way round?

 

[CCHIPSS]

Wrong.



How in the world does someone with such low self-esteem feel "entitled" to anything?

I don't have this mindset anymore, but it does really get my goat what utter unsympathetic bollocks is claimed about it by people. And it's usually men who are given crap for this and not women - I don't see "Nice Girl (tm) Syndrome" existing as a meme, even though it certainly does exist as behaviour.



Or maybe because they lack confidence due to lacking self-esteem.



Yes, of course women never do this, but no-one is giving them a hard time for being immature



"It may or may not be factual, but I'm going to claim it anyway!"





Maybe you shouldn't project then



*nods respectfully towards you*

Anyway, my experience of this was partly due to low self-esteem on my part, but also due to some really crappy communication on the part of the girls I was involved with. I've had the "why can't I meet a nice guy like you" line on more than one occasion, sometimes from girls who knew I liked them. I've also had the "but girls do like nice guys" without any further detail or explanation about what exactly they find attractive in a guy.

I put it down to crappy communication and youthful frustration on the part of both the guys and gals, but why do that when you can push the usual ooga-booga men are crap narrative.....

The problem with nice guys is that the "wrong kind of girls" naturally assume that nice guys will wait around forever. The nice guys are foolish enough to actually wait for a girl. Anyone else would have moved on. The girls also know that the nice guys are not hot items, so the nice guys can wait.

But one day, some day, it would end. Like I said most girls don't know what they are missing until its too late. One day a nice guy told them "Hi Sandy! I got a GF. " That's when the girl realise it was too late. They said "Oh, congrats!". But inside they feel jealous and envy.

But of course I am talking about the wrong kind of girls. These girls should be off the radar of a Christian man anyways. All they have is their outer beauty. They are very shallow and superficial on the inside. They would make decent friends. But tbh I don't think they would make good wife material for a Christian man.

 

[SarahsKnight]

But of course I am talking about the wrong kind of girls. These girls should be off the radar of a Christian man anyways. All they have is their outer beauty. They are very shallow and superficial on the inside. They would make decent friends. But tbh I don't think they would make good wife material for a Christian man.

I think you are quite right on this, CCHIPS. Although, in my own sight, oftentimes a girl I eventually find to be needlessly shallow and superficial degrades in outer beauty as well. Outward beauty too is in the eye of the beholder, after all.

 

[Cearbhall]

Great post, Walker. I think your analysis is right on.

The friend zone has received a tremendous bad rap from people (almost all of them female) who believe the friend zone is a very anti-woman mentality. Their explanation of the FZ is as follows: Guys think women are obligated to love them if they have been a gentlemen to them; when she doesn't reciprocate, he runs off with his tail between his legs.

I don't see how the friend zone says this at all. From the posts I observed in Stephanie's thread, most people think rejection hurts! It's ridiculous to expect that someone who has invested a great deal of time and emotion into another will just walk away with an everything's cool attitude if they've been rejected. A sense of ownership or obligation were nonexistent when I was friend zoned.

I guess I don't really get why it's a concept. So you know someone who isn't interested in you romantically. Don't we all? Not that I see anything wrong with having a term for this if that's all that you're implying, but I have to wonder why it's used almost exclusively by men.

And it has a bad rep because many guys use the term just because they got rejected (without the grievances about a significant other part) and/or say that the female is in the wrong for friendzoning them. It's good that you aren't one of these guys, but it does often become a sexist concept.

 

[Gadarene]

I guess I don't really get why it's a concept. So you know someone who isn't interested in you romantically. Don't we all? Not that I see anything wrong with having a term for this if that's all that you're implying, but I have to wonder why it's used almost exclusively by men.

The same complaints are made by women, they are just not dogpiled on for it the way men are.

 

[Gadarene]

Probably one of the best pieces I've read on nice guys / friend zoning and similar mindsets - not least because it's sympathetic rather than judgemental.

Radicalizing the Romanceless | Slate Star Codex

 

[Cearbhall]

The same complaints are made by women, they are just not dogpiled on for it the way men are.

Not in my experience, and not with the term "friendzone," but of course you may have had different experiences.

 

[MehGuy]

Maybe these guys need to find better girls. If they want to hang out with rougher men that's their choice.

 

[SnowyMacie]

And it has a bad rep because many guys use the term just because they got rejected (without the grievances about a significant other part) and/or say that the female is in the wrong for friendzoning them. It's good that you aren't one of these guys, but it does often become a sexist concept.

I've seen this a lot. Whenever someone gets friendzone, even if the guy has never even asked out the girl or told them how they feel, it's the girl's fault for friendzoning them.

 

[Barzel]

It has been my experience that anyone who is "friendzoned" zones themselves; they choose to stick around and torture themselves with an non-reciprocated affection. I'm sure others' experiences have been different, but I can only share from my own experience, both firsthand and after talking it over with boys I've known.

I used to cling to the hope she'd "see the light," whoever she was at that time. It never happened, but I was the idiot who stuck around.

 

[William67]

This is the exact reason why I gave up on women in general. Its just too much of a hassle. Why beat your head against a brick wall? In both cases, you just end up with a headache.

 

[CCHIPSS]

I think you are quite right on this, CCHIPS. Although, in my own sight, oftentimes a girl I eventually find to be needlessly shallow and superficial degrades in outer beauty as well. Outward beauty too is in the eye of the beholder, after all.

By the time the girl is 16, she already know what she wants. So it is pointless to get them to change their mind.

Put it this way: The only way to get one such a girl to change her mind is for her to endure massive pain.

Like that example from William67, she then comes back ask us "I am divorced now. I understand now. Why didn't we ever end up dating?"

But why would we, any of us, want to wait for that to happen. Why would any of us want to be someone's backup plan? And did I mention these kind of superficial girls are the wrong kind of girl, that they should have no place on the radar of a Christian man? God calls us Christian men to be so much more than this.

Let us ignore and forgot those girls who rejects us, for whatever reasons. Let us continue to improve ourselves for our future wife, who will love us for who we are. And when we do find her, let us love her just exactly as Christ loved the church.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Why would any of us want to be someone's backup plan?

(raises hand)
I think it comes from the idea of "The One". If you are so convinced that this person is your soulmate, and there the one you want to be with than you would do anything to get that chance, even if that means being their backup plan.