The Four Aspects of Salvation.

Dave L · Nov 20, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
That is was a threat that was not true? Judgment was not really going to come upon them within days if they did not repent?

But God worked repentance in them through this.

Dave L · Nov 20, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Jesus said we can judge righteous judgment. It doesn't make sense to read the Bible by some code key. No Bible verse tells us to use some code key or to look to the original meaning of the languages written by scholars.

But you are judging me based on yourself as a standard of comparison.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2019

Also, why would God bother to reason with Cain in doing good in Genesis 4 if God can simply zap Cain into being a mindless puppet for good?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2019

Dave L said:
But you are judging me based on yourself as a standard of comparison.

I am judging your wrong interpretation and not you personally as an individual. I don't know you personally so as to judge you personally. I do not agree with this kind of interpretative method overall.

Dave L · Nov 20, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
I am judging your wrong interpretation and not you personally as an individual. I don't know you personally so as to judge you personally. I do not agree with this kind of interpretative method overall.

You are the standard when you judge others.

Dave L · Nov 20, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Also, why would God bother to reason with Cain in doing good in Genesis 4 if God can simply zap Cain into being a mindless puppet for good?

Cain would get further being good than by being bad?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2019

Dave L said:
But God worked repentance in them through this.

Your not getting it. Let me quote Jonah 3 for you in what it says because your not understanding what it says.

"Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey. And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." (Jonah 3:2-4).

Okay. God tells Jonah to preach what he bids to him. So Jonah preached that the city was going to be overthrown in 40 days. Did this happen according to the word of the Lord given to Jonah?

No. It did not happen. Why did it not happen? Because of the Ninevites turned from their evil way (which is what verse 10 says here)....

"And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." (Jonah 3:10).

Oh, but wait. It says something different in the Hebrew, right?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2019

Dave L said:
You are the standard when you judge others.

Nope. The Bible is the standard. I did not write Habakkuk.

Dave L · Nov 20, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Your not getting it. Let me quote Jonah 3 for you in what it says because your not understanding what it says.

"Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey. And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." (Jonah 3:2-4).

Okay. God tells Jonah to preach what he bids to him. So Jonah preached that the city was going to be overthrown in 40 days. Did this happen according to the word of the Lord given to Jonah?

No. It did not happen. Why did it not happen? Because of the Ninevites turned from their way (which is what verse 10 says here)....

"And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." (Jonah 3:10).

Oh, but wait. It says something different in the Hebrew, right?

This is how God wrought repentance in them.

Dave L · Nov 20, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Nope. The Bible is the standard. I did not write Habakkuk.

Are you abusing scripture using it to judge me using yourself as a standard?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2019

Dave L said:
Cain would get further being good than by being bad?

Did you ever read Genesis 4 before?
God says to Cain in Genesis 4:7 this...

"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." (Genesis 4:7).

Now, why would God try to convince Cain in doing good if God simply zaps people to be good?
Why would God even bother to reason with Cain in doing good if God simply elects some to be good, and He elects others to be bad? Again, it makes no sense; Or this is yet another case where the English is faulty and it says something else in the Hebrew?

Dave L · Nov 20, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Did you ever read Genesis 4 before?
God says to Cain in Genesis 4:7 this...

"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him." (Genesis 4:7).

Now, why would God try to convince Cain in doing good if God simply zaps people to be good?
Why would God even bother to reason with Cain in doing good if God simply elects some to be good, and He elects others to be bad? Again, it makes no sense; Or this is yet another case where the English is faulty and it says something else in the Hebrew?

Laws of sowing and reaping.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2019

Dave L said:
This is how God wrought repentance in them.

Again, your not getting it. If things are as you say and GOD simply elects some to be good and He elects some to be bad, then the scenario in Jonah 3 would not exist because Jonah said that judgment was coming for the Ninevites in 40 days (Which did NOT happen)! Judgment was not averted by GOD changing His mind, but it was averted by what the Ninevites did that then led to God changing His mind. Just read the chapter.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2019

Dave L said:
Laws of sowing and reaping.

What?! Okay. Just believe you want, friend.

Dave L · Nov 20, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Again, your not getting it. If things are as you say and GOD simply elects some to be good and He elects some to be bad, then the scenario in Jonah 3 would not exist because Jonah said that judgment was coming for the Ninevites in 40 days (Which did NOT happen)! Judgment was not averted by GOD changing His mind, but it was averted by what the Ninevites did that then led to God changing His mind. Just read the chapter.

Perhaps you are not grasping how God changes our wills through threats. The OT is full of it.

JLB777 · Nov 21, 2019

Dave L said:
Does it say whoever "chooses" to believe = free will = law = no grace.

No scripture, just your opinion.

JLB777 · Nov 21, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Note: When I say "grievous sin," I am referring to the kind of sins that cause spiritual death. For there is a sin that does not lead unto death (1 John 5:17).

All sin leads to spiritual death if not confessed and forgiven by the Lord.

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 1 John 5:16-17

There is only one sin that we are not to pray about, that leads to eternal death, and can not be forgiven.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

JLB

Dave L · Nov 21, 2019

JLB777 said:
No scripture, just your opinion.

There is no scripture saying "choose to believe". People read it into scripture.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 21, 2019

JLB777 said:
All sin leads to spiritual death if not confessed and forgiven by the Lord.

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 1 John 5:16-17

There is only one sin that we are not to pray about, that leads to eternal death, and can not be forgiven.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

JLB

Well, that is technically not true that there is only one sin that leads to eternal death, my friend. We were just talking about the sin of apostasy (Which is not forgivable), too. Also, the sin of suicide or self murder with the person remaining dead is also another unforgivable sin. For there is no forgiveness after the grave to repent of suicide. A person has to seek forgiveness with the Lord while they are still alive. For it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this: the Judgment (Hebrews 9:27). There is also the sin of worshiping the beast. This is the kind of sin that is so bad that a person's name would not be written in the book of life since the foundation of the world (if they were to commit this kind of sin) (See: Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8).

What is the "sin unto death"? Well, in order to discover the "sin unto death," we should identify what the "sin NOT unto death" is (So as to make a contrast with the "sin unto death"). In order to help determine what the "sin not unto death" is in 1 John 5, I believe it is helpful to look into the motivations behind why the faithful believers are praying for the other believer who is committing a "sin not unto death." 1 John 5 says that they are praying for this believer to have "life" (i.e. victory). But what if this believer (who is committing this sin) is prodigal and they currently do not want victory (or life) over sin in their lives? In other words, the text makes the most sense that the "sin not unto death" is referring to 1 John 1:9 in that the believer (who is committing the "sin not unto death") is struggling with some kind of sin and they are confessing this sin so as to be cleansed of it. They are confessing this sin with the intention of "sinning not" (1 John 2:1) and with the intention of "walking in the light" (1 John 1:7) (Note: Walking in the light = loving your brother - See: 1 John 2:9-11). Note: A part of loving your neighbor is keeping the Moral Law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc.), see: Romans 13:8-10. Anyways, the faithful brethren are praying for this believer who is committing this “sin not unto death” in the fact that they know that he/she is confessing and seeking to overcome this sin (i.e. Their prayers is so that they may gain victory or life over this sin).

Also, the apostle John does not mention anything about the blasphemy of the Spirit in his epistle beforehand. Going by the context of the epistle of John itself, the "sin unto death" is any grievous sin (or mortal sin) that is not confessed to the Lord.

As for not praying for for those who commit a "sin unto death:" John is correcting a misunderstanding. He saying to the brethren that "the sin unto death" is not what he was referring before in a previous conversation with them in regards to praying for the brethren in regards to sin. I don't believe John is advising the brethren to not pray for another believer who is committing the "sin unto death." John is merely correcting the brethren on a misunderstanding on what he was talking about before.

"...I am talking about people whose sin does not lead to eternal death. There is sin that leads to death. I do not mean that a person should pray about that sin." (1 John 5:16) (ICB).

In other words, John was saying, "I do not mean that my previous talk to you on this beforehand that you should pray about that kind of sin; That is not what I was referring to before."

The "sin unto death" is any grievous sin (or mortal sin) that is not confessed or forsaken. It sounds like John had a previous talk or written communication with them on this topic, and the brethren needed clarification on what he meant by praying for another brother who struggled with sin.

Anyways, in context of John's 1st epistle, we learn that the whole contrast is between those believers who say they know the Lord, and do not keep His commandments (1 John 2:4), vs. the righteous who do know the Lord because they keep His commandments (1 John 2:3). For he that commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8), and he that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7). For there are those who say that they don't sin even when they do sin (1 John 1:8), vs. those who stumble on occasion and confess their sins so as to be forgiven of sin (1 John 1:9). This is the context or view of what John was talking about in 1 John 5 and it was not the blasphemy of (speaking bad words against) the Holy Spirit.

JLB777 · Nov 22, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Well, that is technically not true that there is only one sin that leads to eternal death, my friend.

I didn’t say there was only one sin that leads to eternal death.

Every sin leads to eternal death, that is not forgiven.

There is only one sin, that we are not to pray about, because God will not forgive it, that leads to eternal death; Blasphemy of the Spirit.

JLB

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

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