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The Fossil Record Proves Speciation, Not Evolution of Lifeforms Observed

Shemjaza

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Not after they just got down from the tree.

Whose looking after the women and children that can't run anywhere. In African villages they have fences so they are protected, and can sleep in peace. A monkey that just climbed down from the tree must return to the tree. Monkeys are not designed to run on the open plain, never seen one yet!
Check out the hips and posture of Australopithecus afarensis, that's an upright walker with only a slightly more human-like brain then a chimp.

The plains striding pursuit hunter comes before the tool user. Tools are just more efficient if you are smart enough. A kind-of smart ape can develop some crumby tools and thus has slightly less need of the muscle power of a basil ape. This works in very small steps... and lines up with the fossil evidence. Slightly bigger brains, slightly smaller muscles, slightly better tools.
 
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Larniavc

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NOT good criteria. As I said, by those conditions, a rock is alive.
The idea (not you mind) that rocks are alive is so stupid.

That idea is really stupid.

Stupid stupid stupid stupidity squared (are squares alive?).
 
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Larniavc

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Because you do not lose a genetic trait!
Yes you do. Why do you think we need to ingest ascorbic acid but other mammals don’t?

Because we lost that trait.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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This dolphin is "discovered", but is not artificially created. Right?
If so, its "hybridization" would only be an interpretation. It should not be used to illustrate the lab result of hybridization.
I'm having trouble keeping track of exactly what information you're after - hybridization is hybridization, whether done in the lab, in the farmer's field, or in the wild. Two species crossbreed to produce viable offspring reproductively isolated from the parent species. It's not the same as lab genetic modification, as already explained. Genetic evidence shows it to be a hybrid of the two parent species.

You can't expect evidence that lab GMOs or hybrids thrive for hundreds or thousands of years when we haven't been doing that for hundreds or thousands of years - unless you count domesticated hybrids. The lifetime of a species is unpredictable.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Rock cell definition: the smallest structural and functional unit of a rock, typically microscopic and has special chemical composition and internal structure.
Equivocation fallacy - using that false logic, prisons are alive because they have cells. In case you didn't realise it, teacher (!), words have different meanings in different contexts.
 
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Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
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Humans evolved as long distance runners . It’s why we have long legs and no fur. We’ve retained our treeswinging shoulders which came in handy for throwing and hitting things. Don’t forget that humans also evolved to cooperate. And there’s that overly large brain.

(As an aside as a teenager, I had a jack Russell dog who was able to tell my family to shut up when we got on his nerves about him barking. So I’ve haven’t underestimated the intelligence of the other animals since. And of course most dogs understand the language of their owners . So the capacity for using language is already in their brains )
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Man is a useless animal, slow, weak, can't jump, swim, nor defend himself. Man lacks that natural strength that all animals have. A chimp is three to five times stronger than us. A chimp can live and sleep in a tree, we can't do that. We lack everything that is required to survive in the wild. Our young take a decade before they can even look after themselves. Tell me of another animal that takes so long to develop self sufficiency. Antelope take a day or two, most other animals are up and hunting within a few months.

Man was never a wild creature.
You got most of that wrong - man compares well to the average of land animals - over long distances we can outrun pretty much all bar the camel, we can jump over 2 metres, we can swim better than most land mammals (we even have a diving reflex). Chimps are not 3-5 times stronger, thats a myth.

“There’s this idea out there that chimpanzees are superhuman strong,” says Matthew O’Neill at the University of Arizona in Phoenix. Yet his team’s experiments and computer models show that a chimpanzee muscle is only about a third stronger than a human one of the same size.

This result matches well with the few tests that have been done, which suggest that when it comes to pulling and jumping, chimps are about 1.5 times as strong as humans relative to their body mass. But because they are lighter than the average person, humans can actually outperform them in absolute terms, say O’Neill.

We generally don't live or sleep in trees because we don't need to sleep in trees, but where it's an advantage, we can - e.g. the Korowai, or Koroway of Indonesia. We can climb with the best of them.
We have survived in the wild for hundreds of thousands of years - there are still tribes that survive entirely with natural materials and food.

We take a long time to develop self-sufficiency because that enables us to maximise our cognitive capabilities and socialization - our major assets. Antelope are prey animals, we are the hunters, and we're the most adaptable mammalian hunter.

As for man never being a wild creature - tell that to the uncontacted peoples (many of whom are resisting the incursion of 'civilisation' onto their territories).

We have all those capabilities, but generally don't need to use them because we've developed more efficient, or simpler, or easier, or safer, alternatives.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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No sir, you don't lose what you never had in the first place. Strength is an essential trait in the wild, add to that speed and agility.
False. Not only are humans fast enough and agile enough to survive by hunting in almost all terrains (the widest range of any vertebrate), but there are plenty of slower, less agile creatures that survive well enough (e.g. sloth).
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Not after they just got down from the tree.

Whose looking after the women and children that can't run anywhere. In African villages they have fences so they are protected, and can sleep in peace. A monkey that just climbed down from the tree must return to the tree. Monkeys are not designed to run on the open plain, never seen one yet!
You should get out more: Savannah monkeys.

Really, how hard is it to check your facts before posting on topics you clearly know next to nothing about?
 
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USincognito

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I'm not wishing as much as admitting to human frailty, humans do not have the credentials to survive on the African landscape.

That's very strange because humans, and pre-humans members of genus Homo have been thriving on the African landscape for 3+ million years.

A pride of lions would decimate any primates, learning to walk on the ground.

While lions are called the "king of the jungle" they operate in the savanna. And there are numerous primates that walk on the ground including gorillas, mandrills and baboons.

There has to be a transition in physiology, from tree dweller to plain walker. I cannot see how that transition can take place. Descending from the trees is sheer suicide for any monkey.

Your personal incredulity does not make the evidence we have that it happened go away.

Also our transition from arboreal to bipedal would have happened long after we evolved into apes and as I pointed out, two species of monkeys (mandrills and baboons) do just fine in a terrestrial lifestyle.
 
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USincognito

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That's your definition.

No, that's THE definition.

Apes are collectively defined as any gill-less, organic RNA/DNA protein-based, metabolic, metazoic, nucleic, diploid, bilaterally-symmetrical, endothermic, digestive, tryploblast, opisthokont, deuterostome coelemate with a spinal chord and 12 cranial nerves connecting to a limbic system in an enlarged cerebral cortex with a reduced olfactory region inside a jawed-skull with specialized teeth including canines and premolars, forward-oriented fully-enclosed optical orbits, and a single temporal fenestra, -attached to a vertebrate hind-leg dominant tetrapoidal skeleton with a sacral pelvis, clavical, and wrist & ankle bones; and having lungs, tear ducts, body-wide hair follicles, lactal mammaries, opposable thumbs, and keratinized dermis with chitinous nails on all five digits on all four extremities, in addition to an embryonic development in amniotic fluid, leading to a placental birth and highly social lifestyle.​
 
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Brightmoon

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(giggle) though I disagree slightly about being totally gill less. We still have them as our parathyroids. We don’t have gill slits after fetal development
 
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PsychoSarah

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Rock cell definition: the smallest structural and functional unit of a rock, typically microscopic and has special chemical composition and internal structure.
Problem: rocks have no functional units. They are crystals, made of allignments of molecules/atoms. You would have to be crazy to think that a stack of 5 molecules is equivalent to a cell.

furthermore: how the heck can you persist in trying to defend the idea that rocks are alive and yet think plants aren't? This just baffles me.
 
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PsychoSarah

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This dolphin is "discovered", but is not artificially created. Right?
If so, its "hybridization" would only be an interpretation. It should not be used to illustrate the lab result of hybridization.
-_- that's like saying that I couldn't tell who your parents are through a genetic comparison.

Hybrids genetically will have sequences associated with two or more different species that arose after those species split. If the parent species didn't have the same number of chromosomes as each other, genetic abnormality is also present, such as the lizards I mentioned being triploid (the parent species are diploid).
 
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klutedavid

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Check out the hips and posture of Australopithecus afarensis, that's an upright walker with only a slightly more human-like brain then a chimp.

The plains striding pursuit hunter comes before the tool user. Tools are just more efficient if you are smart enough. A kind-of smart ape can develop some crumby tools and thus has slightly less need of the muscle power of a basil ape. This works in very small steps... and lines up with the fossil evidence. Slightly bigger brains, slightly smaller muscles, slightly better tools.

Australopithecus afarensis

Skeletal morphology and locomotion

Considerable debate surrounds the locomotor behaviour of A. afarensis. Some studies suggest that A. afarensis was almost exclusively bipedal, while others propose that the creatures were partly arboreal. (wikipedia)

It appears that no one really knows much about the locomotion of Australopithecus.

Why make a claim that cannot be supported?

You believe that man strode the plains of Africa thousands of years ago?

Lion numbers two thousand years ago were considerably higher, than what they are today. Five thousand years ago, lions numbers in Africa were immense, you would need an army of armed men. To even attempt to cross the open plains back then.

You may have seen some footage of Kalahari bushmen outrunning a gazelle. Not so thousands of years ago, these bushmen would have been lunch for any one of hundreds of prides of lions. The Kalahari hunting phenomenon is a recent practice that developed, because of the sharp decline in lions.
 
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klutedavid

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Yes you do. Why do you think we need to ingest ascorbic acid but other mammals don’t?

Because we lost that trait.
You don't lose traits like being able to instinctively navigate, it is essential for survival.

All animals navigate and accurately, we don't so we get lost.
 
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klutedavid

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Humans evolved as long distance runners . It’s why we have long legs and no fur. We’ve retained our treeswinging shoulders which came in handy for throwing and hitting things. Don’t forget that humans also evolved to cooperate. And there’s that overly large brain.

(As an aside as a teenager, I had a jack Russell dog who was able to tell my family to shut up when we got on his nerves about him barking. So I’ve haven’t underestimated the intelligence of the other animals since. And of course most dogs understand the language of their owners . So the capacity for using language is already in their brains )
Some athletes can run a marathon, most men cannot run a marathon.

No one is running around the plains of Africa five thousand years ago.
 
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klutedavid

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You got most of that wrong - man compares well to the average of land animals - over long distances we can outrun pretty much all bar the camel, we can jump over 2 metres, we can swim better than most land mammals (we even have a diving reflex). Chimps are not 3-5 times stronger, thats a myth.

“There’s this idea out there that chimpanzees are superhuman strong,” says Matthew O’Neill at the University of Arizona in Phoenix. Yet his team’s experiments and computer models show that a chimpanzee muscle is only about a third stronger than a human one of the same size.

This result matches well with the few tests that have been done, which suggest that when it comes to pulling and jumping, chimps are about 1.5 times as strong as humans relative to their body mass. But because they are lighter than the average person, humans can actually outperform them in absolute terms, say O’Neill.

We generally don't live or sleep in trees because we don't need to sleep in trees, but where it's an advantage, we can - e.g. the Korowai, or Koroway of Indonesia. We can climb with the best of them.
We have survived in the wild for hundreds of thousands of years - there are still tribes that survive entirely with natural materials and food.

We take a long time to develop self-sufficiency because that enables us to maximise our cognitive capabilities and socialization - our major assets. Antelope are prey animals, we are the hunters, and we're the most adaptable mammalian hunter.

As for man never being a wild creature - tell that to the uncontacted peoples (many of whom are resisting the incursion of 'civilisation' onto their territories).

We have all those capabilities, but generally don't need to use them because we've developed more efficient, or simpler, or easier, or safer, alternatives.
How about citing your erroneous information.

Humans jumping over two metres?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vertical Jumping Ability Of A Human.

Average
male 41-50 cm 16-19 in
female 31-40 cm 12-15 in

(wikipedia)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mankind rarely ever swam and especially not in Africa. I find it odd that you would mention swimming, given that in Africa is the most dangerous place to even go near the water.

The only people I have ever seen living in trees, are sleeping in tree houses. No human can sleep in a tree and especially not toddlers. Think about what your writing in your posts.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Some athletes can run a marathon, most men cannot run a marathon.

No one is running around the plains of Africa five thousand years ago.

How do you know? Do you have a time machine?
The only thing I'm getting from these posts of yours is a serious case of personal incredulity.
 
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