It seems that cut and paste is your friend.In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.
James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
Are you one of these Christians who thinks that a person can get saved, and then go out and rape, steal, kill, etc. with no impact on his salvation whatsoever?So regarding salvation are you saying, as the Catholics seems to imply, that faith in Christ means trust in Christ to help you do good works which will qualify you to be saved?
If salvation is contingent upon works - yes even works of faith - then one's faith is in those works to save them. Such a soteriology is faith in works. In fact if such were the case one couldn't actually obey many of the commands. For most of the commands in the New Testament have to do with attitude. For example if you take something like "love you neighbor as yourself", if a person does so in order to be saved, as with the faith in works soteriology, one does not do so in love seeing as love is not love if self-interest is involved. Such Christians will try to appear to love, but in fact they're just acting in their own self-interest.
" I will show you my faith by my works."..JamesThe Forefathers of the Salvation by Works Christians
The most serious deviation from a scriptural view of salvation is found in those who make salvation contingent upon one's performance. While today this soteriology can be found in various sects of Christianity, I believe it's origin to be from a deviant sect found in the church at Jerusalem spoken of in the New Testament where, Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." Acts 15:1 Turns out these men came from the church at Jerusalem, where resided the Eleven apostles and James who end up writing to the Gentiles concerning those men, "We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said." Acts 15:24
This was in response to Paul going down to that church to make them aware of the situation whereby their people were preaching this to the Gentile Christians. There he met privately with those who seemed to be leaders to present his gospel to see if they were on board with him. "I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders" Gal 2:2b Acts records that some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses." Acts 15:5 Apparently these were the category of men that had taken upon themselves to preach such an idea to the Gentiles. They were not only members of that church but also on the leadership team. And while Luke, speaking in a generic sense, calls them "believers", Paul says what they really were. "This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves." Gal 2:4
Half measures were then taken to appease them by tinkering with gospel resulting in Neo-Circumcision sects arising which continue the tradition of compromising the gospel to this day.
In any event, this argument fails right off the bat because James 2:14 does not state "that faith" or "such faith". It simply states "faith" as in the KJV version. Explained here, for example:In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.
James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
Plenty of atheists do good works. Do their good works show that they have faith?" I will show you my faith by my works."..James
I believe it got lost in translation. James very words were twisted. It is clear that by one's work shows faith and not the act of gaining faith. One is a saving truth the other is not.
Blessings
The Forefathers of the Salvation by Works Christians
Plenty of atheists do good works. Do their good works show that they have faith?
Your missing faith first. Atheist have no faith just works. It is Faith shown by your works. Here is an example of a congregation that fell from their first works:Plenty of atheists do good works. Do their good works show that they have faith?
For by grace are ye saved through faith; AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God:
A more extreme example:Plenty of atheists do good works. Do their good works show that they have faith?
So if you do those very same good works that the Atheists do, how do those good works show your faith in God?
What about an atheist who pretends to be a Christian and does good works. Do those good works demonstrate his faith?A more extreme example:
Jim Jones. He preached faith to his congregation but in the end his works were evil. So he had a twisted form of faith and his works proved it.
The atheist who fakes being Christian is a very sad soul. God will judge that person harshly.What about an atheist who pretends to be a Christian and does good works. Do those good works demonstrate his faith?
How would anyone know that he does not have true faith, if he says that he has faith in our Lord, and does good works to demonstrate them?
That is not merely an abstract hypothetical. My younger brother is one such atheist, and most people believe that he is a Christian because he has never told them and lives a relatively good life.
The point I am attempting to illustrate here is that it is impossible to know if a person has a true faith merely by hearing his professions of faith and viewing the good works that he does.
Good, then you agree that good works do not demonstrate faith.
Christ guarantees salvation for those who are resting in Him apart from “men’s” works. My works have nothing to do with God saving me. The repentant flee to Christ for mercy and forgiveness with nothing to offer. You refuse to believe scripture to uphold and boast in your works as the grounds for justification before God. It is why you fail to believe this passage. Faith alone = Christ alone saves. You and the Catholics cannot submit to this truth simply because you see your works as the grounds for being savedSo, are you saying we need not do good in order to be saved and that our faith alone takes care of that?
Christ guarantees salvation for those who are resting in Him apart from “men’s” works. My works have nothing to do with God saving me. The repentant flee to Christ for mercy and forgiveness with nothing to offer. You refuse to believe scripture to uphold and boast in your works as the grounds for justification before God. It is why you fail to believe this passage. Faith alone = Christ alone saves. You and the Catholics cannot submit to this truth simply because you see your works as the grounds for being saved
No, I think it is my turn for questioning. You chose to initiate an interaction with me, from what I recall. And I also do not recall stating any conclusions concerning your opinion on the matter. As we agree on the point above, I do not think there is anything left for us to discuss.Of course not.
My turn for questioning...why would you think I agree? And how did you conclude that from my last post?
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