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Featured The Forefathers of the Salvation by Works Christians

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by bcbsr, May 11, 2019.

  1. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    The Forefathers of the Salvation by Works Christians

    The most serious deviation from a scriptural view of salvation is found in those who make salvation contingent upon one's performance. While today this soteriology can be found in various sects of Christianity, I believe it's origin to be from a deviant sect found in the church at Jerusalem spoken of in the New Testament where, Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." Acts 15:1 Turns out these men came from the church at Jerusalem, where resided the Eleven apostles and James who end up writing to the Gentiles concerning those men, "We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said." Acts 15:24

    This was in response to Paul going down to that church to make them aware of the situation whereby their people were preaching this to the Gentile Christians. There he met privately with those who seemed to be leaders to present his gospel to see if they were on board with him. "I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders" Gal 2:2b Acts records that some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses." Acts 15:5 Apparently these were the category of men that had taken upon themselves to preach such an idea to the Gentiles. They were not only members of that church but also on the leadership team. And while Luke, speaking in a generic sense, calls them "believers", Paul says what they really were. "This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves." Gal 2:4

    Half measures were then taken to appease them by tinkering with gospel resulting in Neo-Circumcision sects arising which continue the tradition of compromising the gospel to this day.
     
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  2. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    How does Matthew 25:41-46 fit into all that?
     
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  3. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    The Scriptural view is the Faith plus Works view- the Bible isn't opposed to this, only the interpretations of (16th century) men, and we shouldn't take their novel opinions over 1500 years of sound Christian doctrine.
     
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  4. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Man is saved apart from the merit of works, but not apart from the presence of works. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

    Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 4:5-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

    It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* :oldthumbsup:
     
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  5. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    Only by faith in Jesus Christ is a man made holy in God's sight: no observance of the Law can achieve this, and, You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

    Everyone is capable of visiting the imprisoned, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and healing the sick- but done apart from faith, it merits us nothing. If we accomplish this without the Lord in mind, not doing these deeds out of love for Him, then we are neither justified nor righteous.
     
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  6. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    In Mt 25 they were separated into two groups according to what they were. And sheep behave as sheep because that's their nature. Goats behave as goats because that's their nature. It is because of the regenerate nature that genuine believers in Christ, having been saved by trusting in Christ apart from works, behave as they do, in contrast to children of the devil.

    "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:9,10

    This as opposed to the various postulations of salvation by works sects in which, for example, there are not two categories of people, but rather a whole spectrum of people whom God weighs in the balance as to whether they will be saved based upon measuring up to some standard, such as the law of Moses, or the Catholic canon law.
     
  7. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    Issue is whether it "merits" salvation. If a person believes that his salvation is contingent upon doing "good" works, does such faith in his works "merit" salvation according to the gospel?
     
  8. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    So then what becomes of those people who do not do those things Jesus commands us to do?
     
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  9. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    You mean the Catholic view is that salvation is contingent upon putting your faith in your works to save you. This opposed to the scriptures which say, "It is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Those who have actually read the Bible can clearly see how many times faith alone is mentioned as the condition for salvation, such as in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." Or how about John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." Note how Jesus speaks of salvation from condemnation being finalized upon believing. And there's Paul explicit statement on the matter "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." Rom 4:4,5
     
  10. _Dave_

    _Dave_ Active Member

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    Matthew 25:31-46 is the Sheep and Goats judgment after Jesus returns at the end of the 7 years tribulation and is sitting on his earthly throne. Matthew 25:31

    The goats are the unrepentant sinners who survived all the cataclysmic events of the Great Tribulation, took the mark of the beast and worshiped the antichrist. They persecuted the believers. And are cast into the lake of fire.

    The sheep are the righteous who survived the persecutions by the goats. They inherit the Kingdom.

    While this is clearly an end times declaration, the lessons here can be applied to current life today as a way to live ... not to be confused with a works-based salvation, but to be applied as a growth in Christ and becoming more sanctified.
     
  11. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    So does that mean at some point in the future we have to start doing those things? When does it start?
     
  12. TheSeabass

    TheSeabass Well-Known Member

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    1) Matt 7:21 those who doeth the will of the Father enter the kingdom of heaven
    2) Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast
    3) Rom 4:5 worketh not

    Since the Bible does not contradict itself, neither do these 3 verses contradict each other. Obviously the Bible speaks of different kinds of works...all works are not the same.

    --Works of merit (Eph 2:9) cannot earn the free gift of salvation.

    --Works required by the old Testament law of Moses cannot justify/save Rom 4:5.

    --A faith obedience in doing the will of God does save Mt 7:21. God's free gift of salvation is conditional and meeting the condition (obedience to God's will) does not, cannot earn the free gift. John 6:27 Jesus said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting which the Son of man GIVES. Everlasting life is a free gift Christ GIVES yet Christ said one must WORK, that is, one must meet the condition God has placed upon this free gift. In the context believing is the conditional work one must do in order to receive the free of everlasting life.
     
  13. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    That belief was a carryover from Judaism, which was, essentially, a works-based religion, not having Christ for salvation. However, I'm not certain it was the origin of our current problem. The works-based beliefs do not have Jewish elements in their teachings.

    Frankly, I think it's in human nature to want to believe that we must strive and build our own salvation, as though we were our own saviors. It's ironic that at the root of our effort to be sinless is a gravely sinful motivation to be our own savior.
     
  14. _Dave_

    _Dave_ Active Member

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    Assuming you are a BAC, you'll be watching all of the end times events from the mezzanine of Heaven, so to speak.

    The sheep and goats are strictly those left behind who manage to survive the seven years and are facing judgment for the choices they made during that time.
     
  15. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    If all that hinges on the extra-biblical and unsupported idea of a pre-tribulation rapture I'm not following you.

    But then even humoring that idea leads to three different gospels. One, the original, has it that we are justified by faith and our works. The second, coming some 1500 years later, has it a person is justified by faith only (from there it splits into countless ideas of what that means). And now a third gospel that has it that people at some later time are to be saved solely by their works.
     
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  16. _Dave_

    _Dave_ Active Member

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    I know what you are saying, but these two verses clear up that misunderstanding:

    Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?​

    The sheep are those who have repented and accepted Christ during the tribulation. IOW, already saved the "Gospel" way, and are now receiving rewards ... just as all will who were saved throughout history.

    Only the saved can inherit the kingdom, wouldn't you agree?
     
  17. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    So all those people accept Christ during the tribulation and they have to do all of those things but people throughout history who have accepted Christ don't have to do those things?
     
  18. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Our Apostle Paul says we "first trusted in Christ", in Ephesians 1:12.

    So, in any case, we do not trust in works of the law or works of our own righteousness and ability.

    But there is "faith working through love" > in Galatians 5:6.

    And James says there are works which justify a person > James chapter two. The examples he uses are works of love.

    And there are things which God's word tells us to do. If He says to do these, I would say they are essential.

    Philippians 2:13-16 is one example.

    Also, Hebrews 12:4-14 says we need to seek God and submit to Him for how He alone is able to correct us. And if someone does not have this correction, that person is not legitimate > verse eight.
     
  19. _Dave_

    _Dave_ Active Member

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    No. The sheep are the ones who become saved during the tribulation. Period. Just like today.

    And, just like today, they are known by their works. Obviously, a sheep wouldn't be acting like a goat, or vice versa.

    When you say, "have to do those things," you're asking for a salvation by works debate, and that's not what the Matthew 25 event is about.

    The time of the great tribulation is going to be an extremely polarizing period ... either you are for Christ and willing to die for it, or you are one of the deceived worshiping the antichrist. I don't believe there will be anybody at that time being wishy-washy about their faith ... accepting Christ but living the carnal life of an unbeliever like we have today.

    IOW, Christ separates the sheep and welcomes them into the kingdom as a reward for their accepting Him, not because of their works, but their works are an outward sign of their righteousness. Just like today.

    Added in edit: It's the end times equivalent to the Bema Seat judgment for believers who are rewarded for their works. They are at the Bema Seat not because of their works, but because they are saved. But, their rewards are for their faithfulness to doing the work of Christ while on the earth.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  20. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    Well said. But those who insist that their works add or cooperate to the grounds for justification will never hear what you just posted. Ephesians 2:8-10. For by grace are ye saved through faith; AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS; lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS.
     
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