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That would be quite a trick, but I don't see it in the passage.
2 Kings 6:5-6 (KJV)
5 But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water: and he cried, and said, Alas, master! for it was borrowed. 6 And the man of God said, Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick, and cast it in thither; and the iron did swim.
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How do you folks get evolution out of this?
Exodus 20:11 (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exodus 20:11 (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
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Marshall Janzen
Formerly known as Mercury
Hi Preecher,
I think God created me too, but I don't think it was during one of the six days, some thousands of years ago. God is still creating, and the natural processes we uncover are our partial understanding of some of what God is doing.
Psalm 104 is a great psalm for showing God's continued creative activity. It retells the story of creation similar to Genesis 1, but in this psalm, the activity is ongoing and not confined to a week. Hebrews 3-4 is also interesting, since it shows how the day of God's rest is also more than a literal day: it's ongoing to this very day, and we're called to enter into it!
I think God created me too, but I don't think it was during one of the six days, some thousands of years ago. God is still creating, and the natural processes we uncover are our partial understanding of some of what God is doing.
Psalm 104 is a great psalm for showing God's continued creative activity. It retells the story of creation similar to Genesis 1, but in this psalm, the activity is ongoing and not confined to a week. Hebrews 3-4 is also interesting, since it shows how the day of God's rest is also more than a literal day: it's ongoing to this very day, and we're called to enter into it!
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Marshall Janzen
Formerly known as Mercury
Preecher, I believe God creates every creature, not just the first of their kind.
O LORD, how manifold are your works!
In wisdom have you made them all;
the earth is full of your creatures.
Here is the sea, great and wide,
which teems with creatures innumerable,
living things both small and great.
There go the ships,
and Leviathan, which you formed to play in it.
These all look to you,
to give them their food in due season.
When you give it to them, they gather it up;
when you open your hand, they are filled with good things.
When you hide your face, they are dismayed;
when you take away their breath, they die
and return to their dust.
When you send forth your Spirit, they are created,
and you renew the face of the ground. (Psalm 104:24-30, ESV)
O LORD, how manifold are your works!
In wisdom have you made them all;
the earth is full of your creatures.
Here is the sea, great and wide,
which teems with creatures innumerable,
living things both small and great.
There go the ships,
and Leviathan, which you formed to play in it.
These all look to you,
to give them their food in due season.
When you give it to them, they gather it up;
when you open your hand, they are filled with good things.
When you hide your face, they are dismayed;
when you take away their breath, they die
and return to their dust.
When you send forth your Spirit, they are created,
and you renew the face of the ground. (Psalm 104:24-30, ESV)
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Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
I'd say it was a miracle
It is more a question: does the passage exclude it? This seem to be how the passage was understood very early on. Here is a translation of the Aramaic Peshitta. 2 Kings 6:6 (Lamsa) And the prophet of God said to him, Where did it fall? And he showed him the place. And he cut off a stick and thrust it in there; and it stuck in the hole of the axehead.
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Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
It is not a case of getting evolution out of it, but not seeing it as a literal interpretation of the Genesis account. Moses isn't teaching creationism here or the history of the cosmos, instead he is using Genesis as an illustration to teach Sabbath observance, which in turn we find was a metaphorical picture, a shadow, of our redemption in Christ Col 2:17.
It can't be literal, because if it is Moses is saying God was exhausted after six days creation and was refreshed after a day's rest. Exodus 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed. That is an anthropomorphism, a metaphor describing God in human terms. It's not literal. If you look at the other use of the word refreshed in Exodus (it is only used three times in the whole bible) we find God is identifying with the migrant workers and child labourers toiling out in the fields all week. Exodus 23:12 Six days you shall do your work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; that your ox and your donkey may have rest, and the son of your servant woman, and the alien, may be refreshed.
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I just checked 9 English translations and none say that.I'd say it was a miracle
It is more a question: does the passage exclude it? This seem to be how the passage was understood very early on. Here is a translation of the Aramaic Peshitta. 2 Kings 6:6 (Lamsa) And the prophet of God said to him, Where did it fall? And he showed him the place. And he cut off a stick and thrust it in there; and it stuck in the hole of the axehead.
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Sure he is.
Exodus 20:11 (KJV)
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them ...
It doesn't mean God was exhausted. Nice try though.
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Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
That is because I gave you the one translation that does
You missed out the bits before it.
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
He is quoting Genesis to teach Sabbath observance, not six day creationism.
The thing is, illustrations don't even have to be literal, Jesus taught using parables as illustrations and they are not literal. If we look at the same commandment in Deuteronomy it says,
Deut 5:12 "'Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
Here the illustration to teach Sabbath observance is the Exodus, but it isn't a literal description of the Exodus, God's ' mighty hand and an outstretched arm' is a metaphor. Even in the ten commandments metaphors can be used to illustrate the teaching. Here is another: Deut 5:6 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. They weren't all imprisoned in one literal giant house.
The thing is, we need to look at what the message being taught is, not mistake the illustration for the real meaning. Moses was no more teaching literal six day creationism, than he was divine anatomy, or Egyptian architecture.
He was refreshed after a days rest.
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The same way we get heliocentrism out of this:
1 Chron 16:30 -- 'The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.'
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juvenissun
... and God saw that it was good.
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I wonder how do you read the Bible. Hebrews 4 clearly says that God's creation has been completed.
God creates you all right. But how do you know you did not already exist long before you were born? In fact, you may have existed way back to the time of the Six-Day creation?
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Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
Psalm 102:18 Let this be recorded for a generation to come, so that a people yet to be created may praise the LORD:
Isaiah 48:7 They are created now, not long ago; before today you have never heard of them, lest you should say, 'Behold, I knew them.'
Ezek 21:30 Return it to its sheath. In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you.
Isaiah 48:7 They are created now, not long ago; before today you have never heard of them, lest you should say, 'Behold, I knew them.'
Ezek 21:30 Return it to its sheath. In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you.
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Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
The writer is showing the contrast between verses like "they will never enter my rest" and God resting on the seventh day when he finished his work. What he is doing is laying the groundwork to explain the contradiction with a non literal interpretation of God's day of rest, a rest that wasn't over thousands of year ago but is still there for us to enter if we rest from our works, because the promise is by faith Heb 4:2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
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Yes he was.
Exodus 31:17 (KJV)
17 for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
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juvenissun
... and God saw that it was good.
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These verses do not address my question: how do you know that you were not created long time before you were born? The spirit of a person could have already existed during the Six-Day creation, while the very person is born in A.D. 2005
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Actually, Assyrians verses directly contradict this idea. Try reading them again. Especially the psalm.
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I think maybe you missed the point being made by Moses, here. Try reading Exodus 31:12-17 in its entirety. He's not teaching YECism; he's talking about honouring the Sabbath.
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