Anti-Christ European The final BEAST power is nearly HERE!

Douggg said:

Sounds like you should have issues with those commentaries and their opinions.

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Why would I have issues with mainstream accepted Bible Commentary ??? I don't ascribe to fringe eschatological beliefs.

TomorrowsWorld said:

The beast power is the final resurrection of the Roman Empire! Daniel 2 describes it had "10 toes" or Iron and clay, some strong, some weaker. Revelation also describes it having "10 kings" who "give their authority" to the Beast.

We know from Bible prophecy which nation is the Beast already! They just go by a different name in the scripture!

What we can know WITH CERTAINTY! Is that the BEAST POWER WILL RISE IN EUROPE! Remember Daniel describes them at "The KING OF THE NORTH (of Jerusalem, that is).

We also know the "King of the South" has JUST EMERGED! With the ALLIANCE FORMED IN THE ARAB NATIONS SOUTH OF JERUSALEM!

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/telecasts/will-the-beast-rise-in-europe

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Nah.

Armoured said:

Nah.

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I couldn't help but notice the amount of time and effort you put into constantly changing your signature. Surely you could apply the same effort and bring to the table a bit more than "Nah" no?

JaeMelo said:

I couldn't help but notice the amount of time and effort you put into constantly changing your signature. Surely you could apply the same effort and bring to the table a bit more than "Nah" at this stage in your life.

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Well sure, I could, but why bother? Have you ever tried to tell a really fervent eschatologist that they're wrong? IMPE there is absolutely nothing you can say to make them reconsider. Never mind the fact that hundreds of thousands of equally sincere and learned people have been predicting an imminent apocalypse throughout literally all of recorded history. Never mind that, without exception, every single one of these "prophets" has been wrong. No, a genuinely sincere eschatologist is utterly convinced that they KNOW the end is nigh, this time for sure! ...until the predicted date comes and goes with nothing noteworthy happening, at which point they rejigger the prophecy and pick new "signs" of apocalyptic imminence, and start over again.

I mean, I've played this game before. When I say "nah", that is meant to convey all previous arguments.

Armoured said:

Never mind the fact that hundreds of thousands of equally sincere and learned people have been predicting an imminent apocalypse throughout literally all of recorded history. Never mind that, without exception, every single one of these "prophets" has been wrong. No, a genuinely sincere eschatologist is utterly convinced that they KNOW the end is nigh, this time for sure! ...until the predicted date comes and goes with nothing noteworthy happening, at which point they rejigger the prophecy and pick new "signs" of apocalyptic imminence, and start over again.

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Actually, there's nothing date specific about the word "Apocalypse". Apocalypse is defined as a "Time of Revelation". The Apocalypse has been going on ever since Christ was resurrected from the dead and ascended into heaven. The Apostle Peter said, "Do not let this one thing escape your notice, that a thousand years are as one day with the Lord". So from God's perspective, Jesus has only been raised from the dead a little over two days ago.

What was your wise and insightful observation about how many statements have been made down through history about the Apocalypse being a current event again ??? From God's perspective, are you talking about yesterday, or today ? Or are you only capable of reckoning time the way man does ??? From God's perspective, the Apocalypse always has been imminent.

stephen583 said:

Why would I have issues with mainstream accepted Bible Commentary ??? I don't ascribe to fringe eschatological beliefs.

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What I am saying to you ,stephen, is right.

Which of the commentators that you follow disagrees wth....

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

So what is that telling you right there? The king claiming to be God and speaking against God in Daniel 11:36, he is about to meet his end...... which is? When Jesus returns, Revelation 19:20.

...?

What do they say ends the king of Daniel 11:36 ?

Douggg said:

Which of the commentators that you follow disagrees wth....

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

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Earth to Douggg ?!.. We weren't talking about Daniel 11:45 or Daniel 11:36. We were talking about Revelation 17:12 and what it really relates to, as opposed to what you're posting here about the European Union. REMEMBER ???

Armoured said:

Well sure, I could, but why bother? Have you ever tried to tell a really fervent eschatologist that they're wrong? IMPE there is absolutely nothing you can say to make them reconsider. Never mind the fact that hundreds of thousands of equally sincere and learned people have been predicting an imminent apocalypse throughout literally all of recorded history. Never mind that, without exception, every single one of these "prophets" has been wrong. No, a genuinely sincere eschatologist is utterly convinced that they KNOW the end is nigh, this time for sure! ...until the predicted date comes and goes with nothing noteworthy happening, at which point they rejigger the prophecy and pick new "signs" of apocalyptic imminence, and start over again.

I mean, I've played this game before. When I say "nah", that is meant to convey all previous arguments.

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Armoured - the good news is that you are in the bible ! .... the bad news is it is 2Peter3:3

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

This forum is not about the validity of eschatology, just as it is not about the validity of Christianity. Eschatology in this forum is considered a valid part of Christianity. If you wish to critique eschatology, the validity of it, and them who subscribe to it - don't do it here. Find another venue.

Can anyone please tell how ISIL will be involved in ushering in of the antichrist

stephen583 said:

Earth to Douggg ?!.. We weren't talking about Daniel 11:45 or Daniel 11:36. We were talking about Revelation 17:12 and what it really relates to, as opposed to what you're posting here about the European Union. REMEMBER ???

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All of the end times events will take place on a timeline, which the events and persons fit together.

You had brought up Revelation 17:12. Revelation 17:12 involves the ten kings, who eventually give their kingdom (the power of it) to the beast to carry out his agenda.

What I am trying to show you is the beast in Revelation is initially the person called the little horn in Daniel 7 and 8.... on the end times timeline.

The little horn comes up in a kingdom lead by ten kings, the fourth empire - which is the EU (end times Roman Empire). That takes place before Gog/Magog. Gog/Magog takes place and the little horn and his EU army end up in the middle east. And the little horn is perceived/embraced by the Jews as their messiah, and anointed the King of Israel. Making the little horn the Antichrist

Then the 7 years begin.

3 years 4 months go by and totally unexpected by the Jews, their messiah (the Antichrist) believes he has achieved God-hood and transgresses the Mt. Sinai covenant by stopping the daily sacrifice and claiming to be God, revealing himself as the man of sin. It ends his time as the Antichrist, the king of Israel (illegitimate).

God has the man of sin killed, and then in Isaiah 14 brings him back to life - at which time he becomes the beast. The same beast as the one in Revelation 13 and everyone in the world wonders over his recovery in Revelation 17:8b.

The Jews, having rejected him and his claim to God-hood, are persecuted, as well as anyone else who refuse to worship him. The original ten kings of the EU buy into his claim and pledge their EU kingdom to him.

Toward the end of his 42 months as the beast - that's when Daniel 11:40-45 takes place. And I have shown you that the person is in the beast stage of his career by what it says in Daniel 11:36.

What you are trying to do, stephen, (mistakenly) is hook together the events of Gog/Magog in with the events of Daniel 11:40-45. The mistake(s) you are making is that Gog/Magog is a separate event than the events of Daniel 11:40-45 - they are separated by a 7 years spacing, stephen.

Gog/Magog > then 7 years > then Daniel 11:40-45, which sets up the nations to try and battle against Jesus, to keep him from returning and judging them.

kingdomwitness said:

Can anyone please tell how ISIL will be involved in ushering in of the antichrist

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ISIL is an indirect road, that could not have been forseen because the bible doesn't go into that level of detail.

But from what we can see in the news, ISIL has drawn Russia into the middle east. Russia is battling muslim forces of ISIL, while at the same time allying with other muslim forces. Russia is supporting the president of Syria. And Syria has a pact with Iran, that if either is attacked, they ban together. So Russia could in end up becoming drawn into a muslim Gog/Magog attack as an ally to Syria/Iran against Israel somewhere in the near future. Throw in the other countries listed in Ezekiel 38 as well.

Following that event of Gog/Magog, the little horn person who becomes leader of the EU, (not in place yet), ends up in the Middle east, with his EU army, on the pretense of peace. The EU leadership will really be motivated to get control of the oil.

To the Jews, the little horn's actions will be seen by them as coming to defend them against Gog/Magog. Albeit, it is unlikely that there wiil be military engagement because God supernaturally destroys Gog's army. Which will lead the Jews to think they are on the threshold of the messianic age.

There are beliefs among the Jews that the messiah will fight the battles of God in defending Israel. So they will perceive the little horn's action (staging his EU army in Greece, Daniel 8:9) as a deterrent to stave off the Gog/Magog attack as fulfilling those expectations.

So the Jews (Israel) end up embracing the little horn as their messiah, and he is anointed the King of Israel - illegitimate of course in place of the rightful King Jesus. That's when the person, the little horn, actually becomes the Antichrist. And the 7 years begin, the last week of Daniel 9:27.

kingdomwitness said:

Can anyone please tell how ISIL will be involved in ushering in of the antichrist

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Vladimir Putin and Russia are not our ally in the War on Terror. In October 2015 Washington and NATO accused Russia of concentrating on attacking anti-Assad forces and leaving ISIS alone. On October 12, Washington accused Russia of deliberately targeting U.S. advisers on the ground in Syria working with anti-Assad forces. It's now clear Putin's real plan is to drive ISIS and the Kurds into Turkey and flood Europe and Turkey with Syrian and Iraqi refugees.

Last week, the Belgium foreign minister announced NATO will not come to the aide of Turkey in the event of war with Russia. Europe is becoming politically unraveled by events in Syria and the refugee crisis. In the meantime, Putin is strengthening ties with former Arab satellite states and reasserting Russia as a Middle East power broker, while vowing to restore Russia to its' former glory under the Soviet Union.

ISIS is also growing in power in Libya (Tunisia) where rival government forces are engaged in a civil war to control the country. Libya could soon become a "failed state" like Iraq, ripe for takeover. Both the countries of Turkey and Libya are identified in End Time Bible prophecy as coming under the control of Russia.

Russia is also allowing Hezbollah to stage tens of thousands of advanced Russian missiles in Syria, which include super sonic cruise missiles capable of accurately targeting individual ships in the Israeli port of Haifa. These newer missiles are not the "katusha" WWII rockets previously used by Hezbollah. Hezbollah can now accurately target five Israeli cities.

These missiles are also protected by Russian ECM (Electronic Counter Measure), installations which block NATO and Israeli drone and satellite surveillance in Syria. Hezbollah in Syria, is protected by Russian anti-aircraft surface to air missiles and of course the Russian air force itself.

Inevitably, Hezbollah will once again begin raining thousands of missiles into Israel. When Israel responds, the Israelis will be going head to head with Russia. And here comes Putin and Russia to invade the West Bank (Judea) as foretold in Matthew 24:15.

The Bible also says the moon will be turned to blood before the Great and Terrible day of the Lord. In Bible symbolism the "moon" is used figuratively to represent lesser spiritual beliefs, such as Islam. The Crescent Moon is displayed on Islamic flags and atop the minarets of Muslim temples. It is also prominently featured on the flag of ISIS.

Blood is sometimes a symbol of violence and extreme passion in the Bible. Arab Christians are currently being beheaded, crucified and imprisoned by ISIS forces in Syria and Iraq. It could be argued the ISIS movement in the Middle East is figuratively fulfilling the prophecy where the "Moon will be turned to blood".

Understand I'm not saying there will not also be an actual lunar event that will also fulfill this prophecy. The Bible states explicitly, there will be signs in both the heavens and in the earth. Bible prophecy is also often fulfilled in a preparatory (warning) stage and consummate (final fulfillment) stage. There's no saying, the manner of the revelation need be the same in both stages of fulfillment.


Hope this was helpful and answered some of your questions

stephen583 said:

And here comes Putin and Russia to invade the West Bank (Judea) as foretold in Matthew 24:15.

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stephen, you were doing pretty good up to the above statement.

Matthew 24:15 is about the abomination of desolation. The abomination of desolation has nothing to do with Russia nor the Muslims.

Antiochus IV committed the act of what will be the abomination of desolation coming in the future, by what he did in the past - which was to set up an idol in the temple, which in Antiochus's case was a image of Zeus.

The abomination of desolation of the end times will be the image made of the mortally wounded and come back to life person, called the beast, in Revelation 13. It has nothing to do with Russia, Putin, nor the muslims.
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And which of those bible commentators you are following say that Russia has anything to do with the abomination of desolation? I would like to know.

stephen583 said:

The Bible also says the moon will be turned to blood before the Great and Terrible day of the Lord. In Bible symbolism the "moon" is used figuratively to represent lesser spiritual beliefs, such as Islam. The Crescent Moon is displayed on Islamic flags and atop the minarets of Muslim temples. It is also prominently featured on the flag of ISIS.

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stephen, there is no connection between the moon becoming as blood and the muslims' cresent moon. The moon turning as blood is not until the end of the 7 years. The 7 years have not begun, yet. And will not begin until right after Gog/Magog takes place. The moon becoming as blood has no connection to Islam or the muslims.


12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Armoured said:

Well sure, I could, but why bother? Have you ever tried to tell a really fervent eschatologist that they're wrong? IMPE there is absolutely nothing you can say to make them reconsider. Never mind the fact that hundreds of thousands of equally sincere and learned people have been predicting an imminent apocalypse throughout literally all of recorded history. Never mind that, without exception, every single one of these "prophets" has been wrong. No, a genuinely sincere eschatologist is utterly convinced that they KNOW the end is nigh, this time for sure! ...until the predicted date comes and goes with nothing noteworthy happening, at which point they rejigger the prophecy and pick new "signs" of apocalyptic imminence, and start over again.

I mean, I've played this game before. When I say "nah", that is meant to convey all previous arguments.

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Gotcha, well be careful you don't completely write off everything. The real McCoy has got to be out there somewhere within the mess.

stephen583 said:

Israel has not been at war, since the Second Lebanon War a decade ago.

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July 2014. Israeli and Palestinian-Hamas seven week war in the Gaza known as Operation Protective Edge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israel–Gaza_conflict
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...aunches-ground-assault-on-Hamas-timeline.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/israel-pounds-gaza-against-hamas

stephen583 said:

Gone are the days of Intifada uprisings spilling over into the streets of Jerusalem and Israeli towns and cities.

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http://the-eyeontheworld.blogspot.com/2016/02/3rd-intifada-israel-under-terror_18.html
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/02/27/452706/Gaza-Intifada
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/01/29/...abbas-keep-peace-israel-west-bank-417172.html
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-10-08/israel-and-a-third-intifada
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/10/19/violence-in-israel-the-possibility-of-a-third-intifada/
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/i...ars-third-intifada-put-jerusalem-edge-n442656
http://www.thenational.ae/opinion/a-third-intifada-is-inevitable-unless-israel-changes-course


How do you get a Israeli / Palestinian peace treaty started to usher in the tribulation if they stay at peace? There has to be a 3rd intifada to begin a peace treaty process.

stephen583 said:

The reference of Israel living "without walls", is a biblical reference to the figurative "wall or hedge" God places around the righteous for protection. Therefore, Ezekiel 38 is saying the modern day state of Israel with its' Apartheid system of government is "unrighteous" in its' treatment of the Palestinian people.

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Images of a figurative wall surrounding Jerusalem.







https://www.google.com/search?q=wal...7Tq67LAhUBwmMKHZM7BZcQsAQIGw&dpr=1.65#imgrc=_

stephen583 said:

The reference of Israel living without "bars and gates" is also symbolic language. It is an obvious reference to the twelve gates of the walls of Jerusalem, each of which describes part of God's redemptive plan for the people of Israel. So Israel, having no intention of ever recognizing a viable Palestinian State, is literally "irredeemable" in the eyes of her enemies. Hence she is figuratively living "without bars and gates", just as described in Ezekiel 38.

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Images of a symbolic bars and gates surrounding Israel.






https://www.google.com/search?q=wal...bm=isch&q=border+fenses+around+Israel&imgrc=_

stephen583 said:

Well you shouldn't have. You should have payed more attention to it, because Putin is the Abomination of Desolation described in the prophecies of Daniel and mentioned in Matthew 24:15 as invading Judea (the West Bank of Israel) during the Great Tribulation Period. Did you know Putin is the only Russian president in history to have visited the West Bank Palestinian territory in 2012 and 2014 ?

I've got all my Daniel/Bible references and Putin historical facts (courtesy of Wikipedia), ready to go if you want to have that discussion. It would be redundant of course, because I've covered that subject extensively in other threads on this forum already.

Take a look at my comments on page two of the thread "Who is the Antichrist" page 17 for the Daniel prophetic references about Vladimir Putin, and my comments about Putin in the Futurist Only Thread "Pope and Patriarch, Sunni and Shia" for more information about who and what Vladimir Putin is, and why he is the Antichrist.

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Do you know any Christian who would be willing to go suffer in the Lake of Fire forever after reading Revelation 13 and Revelation 19:20? Knowing who the president of Russia is does not make one an expert on Vladimir Putin. Putin is the only world leader currently aiding Christians in the Middle East. He's also building churches and monasteries in Russia. He's welcoming Jews into Russia. How can someone with his faith and view be the antichrist? Learn a little about his faith and religious background first before slamming the door shut on who the antichrist is. The guy's a christian, maybe even considered an elect if God is using him to build up Russia into a strong christian nation.

And for the record, I'm not Russian. I'm an American living in California all my life. But first and foremost, I'm a christian and welcome anyone who believes in God and follow Christ.

Syrian President Assad: Putin Is the Only World Leader Protecting Christians
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/s...ecting-christians-150472/#s40ubHfWo19oOyLi.99

Vladimir Putin, Christian Crusader? By PATRICK J. BUCHANAN • April 4, 2014, 12:00 AM
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/2014/04/04/vladimir-putin-christian-crusader/
This was article by Pat Buchanan, one of the leading and most influential politician in Washington.

Russia’s Vladimir Putin Vows To Defend Christianity From NWO Genocide: World Leaders Should Unite To End Anti-Christian Persecution! http://politicalvelcraft.org/2014/0...ould-unite-to-end-anti-christian-persecution/

Putin wants monasteries, church rebuilt inside Kremlin http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-kremlin-putin-idUSKBN0G13QL20140801

Russia – a game changer for global Christianity https://www.rt.com/op-edge/321447-christians-isis-religion-putin/

Putin: Defender of Christian Faith and Morality? http://www.thenewamerican.com/world...utin-defender-of-christian-faith-and-morality

Why Russia’s Evangelicals Thank God for Putin http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...sia-evangelical-god-putin-crimea-ukraine.html

Putin to European Jews who feel unsafe: 'Come to us' http://mashable.com/2016/01/19/putin-tells-european-jews-to-come-to-russia/#4uz_kFs6.iqg

Matthew Twentyfour said:

July 2014. Israeli and Palestinian-Hamas seven week war in the Gaza known as Operation Protective Edge.

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As I pointed out earlier, Operation Protective Edge was an Israeli Military "incursion" into the Gaza Strip to put down a Palestinian revolt. It was a police action, not an Arab/Israeli War. The nation of Israel was never threatened by the 2014 uprising in Gaza. Any assertion to that effect, is a ludicrous statement which amounts to historic revisionism.

stephen583 said:

As I pointed out earlier, Operation Protective Edge was an Israeli Military "incursion" into the Gaza Strip to put down a Palestinian revolt. It was a police action, not an Arab/Israeli War. The nation of Israel was never threatened by the 2014 uprising in Gaza. Any assertion to that effect, is a ludicrous statement which amounts to historic revisionism.

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No you did NOT! Here's the article you wrote which mentions nothing about Operation Protective Edge while stating the last time Israel was in a war was a decade ago against Lebanon. You just got mud on your face and not you're trying to throw it at someone else. You made a mistake and brought it upon yourself. Just take it like a man instead of trying to weassle your way out of this one..

stephen583 said:

Actually if you diligently read Ezekiel 38 and apply all the biblical symbolism it employs, you'll find what it describes is a pretext for war against Israel. Relatively speaking, Israel does live at rest and more safely than it did in the past before building its' Security Barrier and its' "Iron Dome" defense. Gone are the days of Intifada uprisings spilling over into the streets of Jerusalem and Israeli towns and cities. Today Israel only experiences sporadic, isolated incidents of violence and the occasional military incursion into the West Bank and Gaza to crush rebellions. Israel has not been at war, since the Second Lebanon War a decade ago.

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Matthew Twentyfour said:

Images of a figurative wall surrounding Jerusalem

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The walls you show pictures of are actual not "figurative" or "symbolic" walls. The Israelis prefer by the way for propaganda purposes you refer to these structures as the "Security Barrier" and do not refer to them as "walls". However it is graphically clear, (as your pictures demonstrate), the "Security Barrier" does in fact include actual physical walls.

The proposition Israel would tear down the Security Barrier as part of any Arab/Israeli Peace Agreement is ludicrous on its' face. That would not be an acceptable pretext for any Arab/Israeli Peace Agreement, (at least not in the real world of Arab/Israeli relations). Israel would flatly turn down that demand and there would be no Peace Agreement brokered.

So the "walls, bars and gates" mentioned in Ezekiel 38 must be "figurative" biblical walls, bars and gates, not actual physical walls. THANK YOU FOR MAKING MY POINT FOR ME WITH YOUR PICTURES. THEY ARE MUCH APPRECIATED.