The Fibonacci Sequence -

[Subduction Zone]

The usual jump you and all other atheists rapidly make but then refuse to make if it involves a creator.

BTW
Your objection about Christians being totally incapable of reasoning unless they see it in the bible is nonsensical. It is also completely unscriptural since we are to told in the Bible that nature testifies to the existence of the creator. To which you will reply by saying that you
can't see.

Whoa!! Wait a second. He did not say all Christians for anything. The only ones that he quite rightly points out can't or won't reason are those that demand that the Bible be taken literally when there is no good reason to do so. Even if you are a Christian there is nothing that says the Bible must be taken literally, and that includes the Bible.

 

[quatona]

I think it was also a good move of God to create the world in a way that things fall down. If they fell up, that would be quite impractical.

 

[Radrook]

I think it was also a good move of God to create the world in a way that things fall down. If they fell up, that would be quite impractical.

The trick would be to anchor yourself down.

 

[KCfromNC]

The usual jump you and all other atheists rapidly make but then refuse to make if it involves a creator.

Nope, I know that humans create things because I can observe humans exist and can watch them do the creating. The problem isn't with accepting that creators exist - it is accepting that a magical invisible unevidenced one does. You know, that whole lack of evidence issue that people tried to sweep under the rug earlier in the thread.

It is also completely unscriptural since we are to told in the Bible that nature testifies to the existence of the creator. To which you will reply by saying that you can't see.

No, I'll reply by saying that the Bible doesn't have a great track record explaining how reality works, what with the talking snakes and global flood and all that.

 

[AlexDTX]

Asserting that mathematical realism is essential to Christian theology is sending the wrong message, as is implying that mathematical non-realism is tatamount to atheism.

The Holy Spirit knows the heart of every man. We do not. This kind of information can be used by God as a stepping stone to someone's salvation. No one asserts that "mathematical realism is essential to Christian theology." You are missing the reason Radrook is posting this in the atheist forum. I wonder how many people you have led to Christ? I have led many to the Lord so I recognize Radrook's intention. I am not so foolish to think anyone will come to Christ through this thread directly, but some will read and meditate on this example of intelligent design which the Holy Spirit can use to move them closer to salvation.

 

[Speedwell]

The Holy Spirit knows the heart of every man. We do not. This kind of information can be used by God as a stepping stone to someone's salvation. No one asserts that "mathematical realism is essential to Christian theology." You are missing the reason Radrook is posting this in the atheist forum. I wonder how many people you have led to Christ? I have led many to the Lord so I recognize Radrook's intention. I am not so foolish to think anyone will come to Christ through this thread directly, but some will read and meditate on this example of intelligent design which the Holy Spirit can use to move them closer to salvation.

Your Christian spirit does you credit but, alas, I know Radrook better than that.

 

[AlexDTX]

Your Christian spirit does you credit but, alas, I know Radrook better than that.

If I misunderstand Radrook, at least the positive benefit remains as I stated. Thank you for your kind words.

 

[KCfromNC]

but some will read and meditate on this example of intelligent design which the Holy Spirit can use to move them closer to salvation.

Alternatively, just like church fathers warned, non-believers will come to associate Christianity with discredited pseudo-scientific nonsense

Augustine: The Literal Meaning of Genesis:

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of the world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn.

 

[AlexDTX]

Alternatively, just like church fathers warned, non-believers will come to associate Christianity with discredited pseudo-scientific nonsense

Augustine: The Literal Meaning of Genesis:

The Holy Spirit works on the hearts of those who want to know the Truth.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.​

Slander is the most commonly used tool of Satan.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Holy Spirit works on the hearts of those who want to know the Truth.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.​

Slander is the most commonly used tool of Satan.

Then don't use it.

 

[AlexDTX]

Then don't use it.

Oops, I erased my first response because my quote was compacted and I misunderstood what you were referring to. Agreed. Slander should not be used, and my last comment might have sounded like slander which was not my intention.

 

[Radrook]

If I misunderstand Radrook, at least the positive benefit remains as I stated. Thank you for your kind words.

Thank you for your positive feedback ad my apologies if I was late in responding. I somehow lost track of the feedback notices. Yes you are 100% right. The intention is to offer material which will reach the hearts of those who are receptive. I also agree that God's Holy Spirit can indeed use such scientific information in the service of the Gospel.

God Bless!

 

[Radrook]

Alternatively, just like church fathers warned, non-believers will come to associate Christianity with discredited pseudo-scientific nonsense

Augustine: The Literal Meaning of Genesis:

But of course you fail to point out exactly what part of the video is pseudo-science because it isn't pseudo-science but hard scientific fact that is being graphically displayed. So the only recourse is to tag it as pseudo science without providing any basis for the accusation because no legitimate basis for that accusation exists. LOL!

 

[Radrook]

Nope, I know that humans create things because I can observe humans exist and can watch them do the creating. The problem isn't with accepting that creators exist - it is accepting that a magical invisible unevidenced one does. You know, that whole lack of evidence issue that people tried to sweep under the rug earlier in the thread.



No, I'll reply by saying that the Bible doesn't have a great track record explaining how reality works, what with the talking snakes and global flood and all that.

Such an attitude is like Mr, Magoo cartoon character who opens his eyes only when wants to. The evidence can be staring it in the face far more glaringly than it is right now and it would still claim that it doesn't exist because acknowledging that it does exist is simply too bitter a pill to swallow. The hilarious thing about this posturing is its attempt to appear scientific when its whole totally-biased, mind-numbed approach is as anti-scientific as it can get without actually declaring itself legal insanity..

 

[quatona]

Yes you are 100% right. The intention is to offer material which will reach the hearts of those who are receptive.

It´s unusual to post stuff on a science forum that´s supposed to appeal to the audience emotionally. I guess most everybody was naturally assuming you were posting this stuff because it appeals to the intellect.

 

[Radrook]

It´s unusual to post stuff on a science forum that´s supposed to appeal to the audience emotionally. I guess most everybody was naturally assuming you were posting this stuff because it appeals to the intellect.

You are committing the fallacy of false dichotomy. Information can be both emotionally appealing and scientifically informative. You are also forgetting that this is a Christian forum where such thoughts will be occasionally expressed among the Christian members. Hope that helps.

 

[HitchSlap]

You are committing the fallacy of false dichotomy. Information can be both emotionally appealing and scientifically informative. You are also forgetting that this is a Christian forum where such thoughts will be occasionally expressed among the Christian members. Hope that helps.

Which is why this part of the forum is open to non-believers. Deep down you know creationism/ID is pseudoscience, and your intellect has a built in BS meter, and even theists need to hear reality occasionally. Ask yourself why you spend so much time here, and be honest with yourself.

 

[quatona]

You are committing the fallacy of false dichotomy. Information can be both emotionally appealing and scientifically informative.

No, you were the one emphasizing that you were posting for the emotional appeal.

You are also forgetting that this is a Christian forum where such thoughts will be occasionally expressed among the Christian members.

No, I am not forgetting this. The posts here remind me of that, on a regular basis.
Doesn´t change anything about my statement: Emotional appeals aren´t expected in a science forum.

Hope that helps.

With what?

 

[KCfromNC]

But of course you fail to point out exactly what part of the video is pseudo-science because

Still can't come up with a reason why there has to be a designer of the various naturally-produced patterns we see around us, can you?

 

[KCfromNC]

Such an attitude is like Mr, Magoo cartoon character who opens his eyes only when wants to.

I'm sure you think that your judgment of me is supposed to have some sort of emotional effect. But for that to work, I'd have to respect your opinion.

The evidence can be staring it in the face

What evidence is that, again?