The "Fewness of the Saved"

[Jan001]

The world is full of people who think they are right w/ God b/c:
their parents were Christians
they go to church on Easter or Christmas
they grew up in the church
they had a fuzzy feeling about Jesus
they said a prayer
They go to church on Sundays
Even they serve in the church
They like the worship style

Most of these people are just going thru the motions. They like the idea of Jesus & heaven but, like the people following Jesus while he was here, are really only looking for a miracle. They're in it because it's expected of them by other people. They like the social aspect. It's part of the culture they live in & popular.

There's a mercy & forgiveness, yes, but also a rejection of that mercy & forgiveness by those who are not his saints.

I think we will be surprised how many are not saved, but also surprised how many are. Like Cheyvon, I would guess 1/3 will be - & that is still a HUGE number.

Some theologians theorize the number of humans saved in heaven will equal the number of angels who were thrown down from heaven.

Revelation 12:4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman who was about to deliver a child, so that he might devour her child as soon as it was born.

 

[DragonFox91]

Some theologians theorize the number of humans saved in heaven will equal the number of angels who were thrown down from heaven.

Revelation 12:4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman who was about to deliver a child, so that he might devour her child as soon as it was born.

It's curious how many of us think it's going to be 1/3.

 

[Jan001]

I thought the same thing.

 

[DragonFox91]

The world is full of people who think they are right w/ God b/c:
their parents were Christians
they go to church on Easter or Christmas
they grew up in the church
they had a fuzzy feeling about Jesus
they said a prayer
They go to church on Sundays
Even they serve in the church
They like the worship style

Most of these people are just going thru the motions. They like the idea of Jesus & heaven but, like the people following Jesus while he was here, are really only looking for a miracle. They're in it because it's expected of them by other people. They like the social aspect. It's part of the culture they live in & popular.

There's a mercy & forgiveness, yes, but also a rejection of that mercy & forgiveness by those who are not his saints.

I think we will be surprised how many are not saved, but also surprised how many are. Like Cheyvon, I would guess 1/3 will be - & that is still a HUGE number.

I am listening to the sermon. He is absolutely right. We need more sermons like this, more saints to preach this boldly.

Sinners in the Hands of An Angry God sermon is another like it.

Sadly 'fire & brimstone' teachings have been pushed aside.......but the NT talks about hell & judgement frequently.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It's curious how many of us think it's going to be 1/3.

That is quite peculiar, indeed. If that were the case, then all of North and South America and Europe will be saved as, in total, they make up about 1/3 of the entire world's population. We can automatically ignore all the atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Daoists, Confucianists, Jains, Zoroastrians, etc., etc. primarily because the vast majority of these folks will never even hear the name of Jesus Christ during their brief lives on this earth, much less respond to the Gospel message. However, it is wondrous indeed that we need not overly concern ourselves with the folks around us since they are among the 1/3 of the population that will, perforce, be saved.

 

[Jan001]

That is quite peculiar, indeed. If that were the case, then all of North and South America and Europe will be saved as, in total, they make up about 1/3 of the entire world's population. We can automatically ignore all the atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Daoists, Confucianists, Jains, Zoroastrians, etc., etc. primarily because the vast majority of these folks will never even hear the name of Jesus Christ during their brief lives on this earth, much less respond to the Gospel message. However, it is wondrous indeed that we need not overly concern ourselves with the folks around us since they are among the 1/3 of the population that will, perforce, be saved.

Scripture also states:

Romans 9:14-16 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So it depends not upon man’s will or exertion, but upon God’s mercy.

I believe the persons who have heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be held more accountable than those persons, who through no fault of their own, have not heard the Good News.

Luke 12:47-48 And that servant who knew his master’s will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. 48 But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more.

God judges the heart of each person.

Romans 2:14-17 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Scripture also states:

Romans 9:14-16 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So it depends not upon man’s will or exertion, but upon God’s mercy.

I believe the persons who have heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be held more accountable than those persons, who through no fault of their own, have not heard the Good News.

Luke 12:47-48 And that servant who knew his master’s will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. 48 But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more.

God judges the heart of each person.

Romans 2:14-17 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Do you believe that folks will be saved who have never even heard the name of Jesus Christ and do not have the tiniest inkling of Christianity?

 

[Jan001]

Do you believe that folks will be saved who have never even heard the name of Jesus Christ and do not have the tiniest inkling of Christianity?

Yes. God judges each person's heart. We Christians are required to obey God's commandments because we know what they are.

It is difficult for non-Christians to be saved but some will be saved.
God judges the intentions of every person's heart. He is a merciful God and He desires for all mankind to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 2 Peter 3:9

From the beginning, God wrote His laws on everyone's heart. Each person's conscience bears witness to this. Cain did not give his offering with his whole heart in love for God. Then Cain is mad because God did not accept his half-hearted offering. Cain could have pleased God with a new heart-filled offering but he killed his brother instead.

Genesis 4:2b-8 Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord. 4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, 5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” 8 Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him 9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” He said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” 10 And He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood cries out to Me from the ground. 11 So now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand.

Romans 2:14-16 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Luke 1:37 For with God nothing will be impossible.”

Also, concerning the Jews today, they have been taught to ignore Christianity because it is a false religion. I do believe there will be righteous Jews in heaven.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes. God judges each person's heart. We Christians are required to obey God's commandments because we know what they are.

It is difficult for non-Christians to be saved but some will be saved.
God judges the intentions of every person's heart. He is a merciful God and He desires for all mankind to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 2 Peter 3:9

From the beginning, God wrote His laws on everyone's heart. Each person's conscience bears witness to this. Cain did not give his offering with his whole heart in love for God. Then Cain is mad because God did not accept his half-hearted offering. Cain could have pleased God with a new heart-filled offering but he killed his brother instead.

Genesis 4:2b-8 Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord. 4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, 5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” 8 Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him 9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” He said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” 10 And He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood cries out to Me from the ground. 11 So now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand.

Romans 2:14-16 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Luke 1:37 For with God nothing will be impossible.”

Also, concerning the Jews today, they have been taught to ignore Christianity because it is a false religion. I do believe there will be righteous Jews in heaven.

Thank you for your clear and unambiguous response.

 

[Jan001]

You are welcome. It is my opinion. I have no authority from God to speak for Him. I am sure other people have different opinions on this topic.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You are welcome. It is my opinion. I have no authority from God to speak for Him. I am sure other people have different opinions on this topic.

I appreciate your attitude. I do have issues with those who claim to have authority from God to speak for Him. We all agree on the essentials of the Christian faith (the Nicene Creed), otherwise we would not be here at CF. It is on peripheral issues that we have liberty to our own understanding.

 

[Jan001]

There is this Scripture.....

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, · “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Many Christians claim that unless a person is Christian, he cannot be saved. They use this Scripture as their proof text.

I look at it this way:

It is true that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. However, every person, whether he be Christian, Buddhist, Sikh, Jew, Muslim, or any other faith or non-faith, will be judged either worthy or not worthy to inherit eternal life by Jesus Christ, the judge of all persons.

Only Jesus Christ will judge, and this is because it is He who redeemed mankind.

John 5:21-22;26-29 As the Father raises the dead and gives life, so too does the Son give life to whomever he wishes. 22 The Father doesn’t judge anyone, but he has given all judgment to the Son......26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself, 27 and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.

 

[bbbbbbb]

There is this Scripture.....

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, · “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Many Christians claim that unless a person is Christian, he cannot be saved. They use this Scripture as their proof text.

I look at it this way:

It is true that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. However, every person, whether he be Christian, Buddhist, Sikh, Jew, Muslim, or any other faith or non-faith, will be judged either worthy or not worthy to inherit eternal life by Jesus Christ, the judge of all persons.

Only Jesus Christ will judge, and this is because it is He who redeemed mankind.

John 5:21-22;26-29 As the Father raises the dead and gives life, so too does the Son give life to whomever he wishes. 22 The Father doesn’t judge anyone, but he has given all judgment to the Son......26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself, 27 and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.

I thought of using John 14:6, along with Acts 4:12 to respond to your earlier post, but decided that you would probably respond in this way. I understand your reasoning and respect your opinion, although I do not happen to share it.

 

[Jan001]

I thought of using John 14:6, along with Acts 4:12 to respond to your earlier post, but decided that you would probably respond in this way. I understand your reasoning and respect your opinion, although I do not happen to share it.

Time will tell....

 

[bbbbbbb]

Time will tell....

True enough. I think we will all be in for some major surprises.

 

[Jan001]

True enough. I think we will all be in for some major surprises.

At the judgment of the sheep and goats, we will all see who is saved and who is condemned.
I truly want to be among the sheep at Jesus' right hand!

 

[bbbbbbb]

At the judgment of the sheep and goats, we will all see who is saved and who is condemned.
I truly want to be among the sheep at Jesus' right hand!

I have yet to meet anyone who wants to be among the goats.

 

[Jan001]

I have met someone who does. We are not good friends.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I have met someone who does. We are not good friends.

Wow!

 

[jamiec]

Hello brothers and sisters in our Lord!

I have had a lot weighing on my mind over the past few days regarding the Catholic Doctrine of "The Fewness of the Saved". I am a devout Roman Catholic and I had never heard of this doctrine before. I am used to having always been taught mercy and forgiveness not the pretty much IMPOSSIBLE chance of reaching Heaven. In this doctrine, backed by many Saints, very, VERY few Christians who think they are saved go to Heaven and most go to Hell. In this doctrine, according to Saint Leonard Of Port Maurice, on the hour of his death only two people out of 33.000 went to heaven and 3 out of 33,000 went to Purgatory. That means that MANY Christians who really followed and loved The Lord are in Hell. Only a few that are "Chosen By God" make it to Purgatory or Heaven. That is severely frightening to me because that would mean Heaven is basically reserved for the chosen Saints and that is about it. I am losing hope since the thought of Heaven and a love for our beautiful Lord are what get me through my days. I am far from perfect, and I fear perfection is what it takes. What do you all think?

Here is some information about this doctrine: The Fewness Of The Saved

A Roman Catholic Priest's sermon this doctrine:

I've heard of that sermon. That kind of sermon is atrocious trash. That the preacher is a canonised Saint, does not make that sermon any less trashy or spiritually dangerous. It leaves no room for confidence in God's mercy, and is a temptation to despair, so as to cause the very evil it is, presumably, intended to oppose. If God damns very nearly everyone, then it is a gross abuse of language to pretend that such a God is Saviour, or that such a God deserves any gratitude. Such garbage needs to be forgotten as soon as possible. It is as dangerous in its way as Universalism. And what is the point of praying for the Faithful Departed, if there are hardly any of them - if very nearly all of them are damned ?

Besides, the preacher is not God, and cannot possibly know - least of all so very exactly - what number or proportion or percentage of people is going to be finally saved or not. To pretend to such knowledge is rash at best, and the sin of presumption at worst.