The Feasts of The Lord

[Frogster]

Yes the law was because people were being told to be circumcised but then God told Peter "do not call unclean what I have made clean"
The law I believe was to point out the holiness of God and to convict is of our sinful nature. Then Jesus came and showed us Gods love and mercy.

I don't know if they were told to celebrate the feasts but the food laws were not enforced on them.

Hi, but the feasts and food laws, were both of the old Covenant, Paul told Peter that that was all torn down now. Gentiles never kept those laws, they were not given to them. All of the Jewish Christians in Antioch, were not even living under the feasts and food laws, so why do some seek to add them to the church? We are of Abraham pre circumcision, Romans 4, Paul used him to keep Judaism out of the church.


Gal 2:18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.

 

[Frogster]

Zechariah 14
New International Version (NIV)
The Lord Comes and Reigns

14 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.

8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.

10 The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. 11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

12 This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. 13 On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. 14 Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. 15 A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.

16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. 18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.

20 On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. 21 Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[c] in the house of the Lord Almighty.

Footnotes:
Zechariah 14:5 Or 5 My mountain valley will be blocked and will extend to Azel. It will be blocked as it was blocked because of the earthquake
Zechariah 14:18 Or part, then the Lord
Zechariah 14:21 Or merchant

Well, without getting into an eschatalogical argument, and how we interp Zech 14, we must ask a question?

Why would Paul fight off judaism being imposed, if one day it would be imposed, subjugated?

look at the verses, if one does not keep the Jewish feasts, he gets punished? Do you see how that goes against NT theology? The old Cov was abolished, and certainly again, it was never for the Gentiles, so subjugation of the Mosaic code, and the feasts which were in the code, totally goes against NT theology. Look at the words, no rain, punishment, plaque, etc..



Zech 14:17 And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain; there shall be the plague with which the Lord afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths. 19 This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.

 

[Yahu]

were the jewish feasts, food laws, or sabbath, ever given to gentiles?

Yes, they were the laws of Yah for all the nations. The Israelites were the priesthood for all nations. A bull was offered for the sin sacrifice for each of the nations each year.

 

[Frogster]

Christmas and Easter are a result of mixing pagan worship with Christian values to compromise the two and make everyone celebrate at the same time. I choose not to celebrate them. Look up the meaning of the Christmas tree. It's not a Christmas tree at all!

You also forget that we bring the present and future into the feasts because all of them point to Jesus! They are reminders. Atonement seen in light of Jesus's coming is all about the gospel because you see where we were, what Jesus accomplished and where we are now. Tabernacles is about the past, present and future. What God did for the Hebrews in the past, Jesus dwelling with us as a man (which is when we chose to celebrate His birth), the spirit dwelling within us now and God dwelling with us in all His glory in the future. Trumpets is all about Jesus coming back.

There is great fruit to be had looking at the ways of the Jews and seeing how it all works in with the gospel.

We don't want the feasts to take away from the Truth but rather enhance the reality of it. It's like everything. Any good thing can become a distraction from what matters if you take your focus off The Lord.

Our best times in The Lord have been at the feasts. The Spirit really moves and does great things.

In other words, why is Paul perfectly clear, he did not want judaism, sabbath, feasts, food laws, for the churches? In fact, the council of Acts 15, said no Judaism for the churches also.

 

[Frogster]

Because, we just might learn something about the character and heart of God.

the cross...the cross...besides, the righteousness of God was seen pre law in genesis with Abraham, and rom 4:15 says the law worked wrath, that is why one neeeds to understand Abrahamic usage in NT text.

 

[Frogster]

Yes, they were the laws of Yah for all the nations. The Israelites were the priesthood for all nations. A bull was offered for the sin sacrifice for each of the nations each year.

incorrect, they were not for the gentiles. Passover of the who???



Psalm 147:19 He declares his word to Jacob,
his statutes and rules to Israel.20 He has not dealt thus with any other nation;they do not know his rules.
Praise the LORD!

2 Chronicles 2:4 Behold, I am about to build a house for the name of the LORD my God and dedicate it to him for the burning of incense of sweet spices before him, and for the regular arrangement of the showbread, and for burnt offerings morning and evening, on the Sabbaths and the new moons and the appointed feasts of the LORD our God, as ordained forever for Israel.

John 2:13
The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 6:4
Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was at hand.

John 11:55
Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and many went up from the country to Jerusalem before the Passover to purify themselves



1 Cor 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

 

[weariedsoul]

then if your're right, why did Paul not want them keeping the feasts?

lets not let a little symbolism in 1 Cor 5, mean we are to keep feasts.

I thought you argued against the Sabbath in the GT section?

Im just trying to get to the truth frogster. Im not promoting or disagreeing with anything necessarily. Let me ask you these questions.

1)Whats your take on the similarities of communion and passover?

2)And if we can observe communion in remembrance of Christ why cant we celebrate passover for the same reason? As long as we don't see it as NC law but just a feast of remembrance then it isnt bad is it?

3)Are you not taking Pauls words and turning them into a law of itself? Legalism?

4) And also, whats your take on the fact that when paul referred to keeping the feast in truth that he also was talking about throwing a unrepentant fornicator out of the church?

 

[weariedsoul]

were the jewish feasts, food laws, or sabbath, ever given to gentiles?

Does it matter? Is it unlawful to celebrate passover? How about Christmas and Easter, is that unlawful?

 

[weariedsoul]

Didnt Christ establish the ritual of eating bread and drinking wine while celebrating the passover feast? Thats interesting.

 

[ByronArn]

Does it matter? Is it unlawful to celebrate passover? How about Christmas and Easter, is that unlawful?

Neither is "unlawful", as long as they are done with the glorification of God in mind. The problem, however, is that most who start observing the Feasts of the Old Covenant start thinking that since God commanded these Feasts to be kept by the Children of Israel, they are obligatory upon us now. It was towards that attitude that my last post was directed. As usual, its not so much what you do, but what's your attitude in doing it. Someone grudgingly giving $1000 to the church because they feel they have to tithe is nowhere near as good as someone else who gladly gives the $50 they can afford to give, even if its only 7%.

 

[weariedsoul]

Neither is "unlawful", as long as they are done with the glorification of God in mind. The problem, however, is that most who start observing the Feasts of the Old Covenant start thinking that since God commanded these Feasts to be kept by the Children of Israel, they are obligatory upon us now. It was towards that attitude that my last post was directed. As usual, its not so much what you do, but what's your attitude in doing it. Someone grudgingly giving $1000 to the church because they feel they have to tithe is nowhere near as good as someone else who gladly gives the $50 they can afford to give, even if its only 7%.

I agree.

 

[Frogster]

Does it matter? Is it unlawful to celebrate passover? How about Christmas and Easter, is that unlawful?

Where did I ever say people can't celebrate halloween?

 

[Frogster]

Didnt Christ establish the ritual of eating bread and drinking wine while celebrating the passover feast? Thats interesting.

which covenant r u in, just for clarification?


25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

 

[Frogster]

Does it matter? Is it unlawful to celebrate passover? How about Christmas and Easter, is that unlawful?

And why can't you ever reute my texts after all these threads?

Why did Paul say it was a waste of time, to get under the jewish calendar in gal 4, and Col 2?

Didn't u used to argue against keeping the sabbath in the GT section?

 

[weariedsoul]

which covenant r u in, just for clarification?


25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Im trying not to be like a legalistic pharisee. I'm following Paul's example in Romans 14. Paul refers to it as walking charitably.

 

[weariedsoul]

And why can't you ever reute my texts after all these threads?

Why did Paul say it was a waste of time, to get under the jewish calendar in gal 4, and Col 2?

Didn't u used to argue against keeping the sabbath in the GT section?

Seems unedifying to debate this. Grace and how it works is another matter, i'll help you shout that from the CF rooftops if you like.

 

[cyberlizard]

Paul may have written most of the 'new testament', but I recall that a disciple is not above his Master who said that the 'greatest in the kingdom is then one who not only teaches the commandments, but teachers others to do so'.

The problem with Paul's writings is that people think he is writing equally to both Jew and Gentile - this is simply not the case. It is this that leads to the confusion.

It is strange though that to say Paul was as influential as he was, arguments over which day Passover was to be kept were rife in the post-apostolic days. The argument was not about whether to keep the feast, but when to keep the feast. The same is true for the Sabbath which remained a bone of contention into the fifth century. Obviously not everyone accepted Paul's teachings. It would seem for most of the first five centuries, it was the 'Jewish' style of Christianity which was dominant, only later becoming a more 'gentile' style of Christianity... this despite Gentiles being in the majority in the church.

Another non-Christian book is entitled 'the story of Simon Kefa' which dates roughly to the third century and is a polemic against Christians and show clearly that much of the church was still practicing the festival days.


Steve

 

[Frogster]

Paul may have written most of the 'new testament', but I recall that a disciple is not above his Master who said that the 'greatest in the kingdom is then one who not only teaches the commandments, but teachers others to do so'.

The problem with Paul's writings is that people think he is writing equally to both Jew and Gentile - this is simply not the case. It is this that leads to the confusion.

It is strange though that to say Paul was as influential as he was, arguments over which day Passover was to be kept were rife in the post-apostolic days. The argument was not about whether to keep the feast, but when to keep the feast. The same is true for the Sabbath which remained a bone of contention into the fifth century. Obviously not everyone accepted Paul's teachings. It would seem for most of the first five centuries, it was the 'Jewish' style of Christianity which was dominant, only later becoming a more 'gentile' style of Christianity... this despite Gentiles being in the majority in the church.

Another non-Christian book is entitled 'the story of Simon Kefa' which dates roughly to the third century and is a polemic against Christians and show clearly that much of the church was still practicing the festival days.


Steve

there were jews in almost all the churches, not the majority but they were there, and paul and peter both wrote to the same people in 2 peter, jews and greeks. Peter's letter addressed both in 1 Peter. There were jews in Corinth, galatia, rome etc, plus Paul preached the same gospel to Jews and greeks, as he was sent to both. Antioch started with jews.

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.

Acts 26:17 delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you

 

[cyberlizard]

the same gospel - yes, the same lifestyle, no.


Steve

 

[Frogster]

the same gospel - yes, the same lifestyle, no.


Steve

how could he confront peter for living as a jew, after he turned in Antioch, if Paul lived as a jew as recorded in gal 2?


Look at this verse also.


Gal 4:12 Brothers, I entreat you, become as I am, for I also have become as you are. You did me no wrong.

I'll put it in the Amplified ferryaa since we are buddies, and I missed you in the last year or so.



12 Brethren, I beg of you, become as I am [free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordinances], for I also have become as you are [[e]a Gentile]. You did me no wrong [[f]in the days when I first came to you; do not do it now].