The Father IS God, the Son IS God and the Holy Spirit IS God. How many Gods are there? ONE?

[Hieronymus]

Not. Nothead says really not. Never not. Ever not. Not not. Not exponential.

"The Father and I are ONE"
Does that make sense to you?

 

[Hieronymus]

My mind's eye sees a singular God.

But the bible describes / reveals a plurality of some sorts.

 

[nothead]

But the bible describes / reveals a plurality of some sorts.

Em, Shema is the HIGHEST Command under the SUN and that's for you and me sir.

This reveals a SINGULARITY in absoLUTE mien.

 

[Imagican]

You shall find there are a huge number of conversations about the trinity on the boards here. What did the Lord say in Deuteronomy 6:4?
And then in John 4:24?
Now in Isaiah 55:8?

There's a reason those are out of order. God is one. He is a spirit. We can't conceive of God's ineffability. However, what I believe is hoped to come across in his word is that God is like you are if you wish to understand what is commonly referred to as the trinity.
My pastor back in the states once used this analogy to describe the trifold beingness of God so as to make it comprehensible in contemporary imagery.

He used himself as an example so here goes: "I'm a pastor, a husband, and a father. Does this mean there are three men living in the family house? No. It means I am one man in three forms of duty and responsibility and therefore identity. But I am still that one man in all those things I do that are called, pastor, husband, father."

That's God. There are not three. As he told us , there's only the one.
Who is a spirit, who is a holy spirit,1 Peter 1:16, and who came to the earth to prove his truth and existence to the world as Yehoshua/Yeshua/Jesus Christ. [ "anointed deliverer"]http://www.hebrew-streams.org/frontstuff/jesus-yeshua.html
John 10:30.

Just my thoughts. I hope this assists your search. God bless.

I find it amusing that you first state that we can't even conceive of God's exact nature then go on to use an analogy comparing God to a pastor, (man), being a 'pastor, husband and father'. You state that God is 'Spirit' then compare Him to that which is 'mortal'. Can you see the irony?

God is the Father of Christ, His Son. This is what the Bible states. This is what Christ Himself states.

So how do you so easily accept the teachings of men that try to make Christ God? Christ is not the Father.

Oneness? Christ's most valued 'wish' is that we too become one with His Father as He is one with His Father. Would that make us God too if we become one with God? Of course not. No more than the Son is the Father, we will not become the Father when becoming one 'with' the Father.

So the 'oneness' spoken of in the Bible is not about equality or being the 'same', it is about 'sharing'. We can become 'one' with the Father trough sharing our love with Him as He has already shares His love with us.

So if we eliminate 'oneness' as any indication of 'trinity', all that's left is John 1. And that can be eliminated just as easily.

When one opens the Bible and begins to read 'from the beginning', what is the first thing that we read? God 'said'.............. Get it? God 'said'. We see the 'Word of God' speaking Light into existence. Not Christ, but God's Word. The means by which God expressed Himself to that which He created: His Word.

Like us. When we speak, it is 'our word' that reveals what we wish to convey to that which we 'speak to'.

So, in the beginning of any conversation exists the 'word' of those that wish to communicate. And that 'word' IS the representative of whoever is speaking. The word spoken, is in essence, the person speaking. It is the essence of the person speaking.

So in the beginning was the Word, (word of God. Not Christ. But merely God's Word. The means by which He spoke light into existence. This is what the Bible says without men trying to 'make up' what they want it to mean). The word was 'with God', (as your word or my word is 'with me'. It is an integral part of each us. It is the means by which we express our very existence with each other. With God). The Word was God, (The only means by which we 'know' God is through His Word so it is obvious that God's Word is God. That part of God that God used to communicate to His creation. The very means by His creation was 'created': God 'said', "Let there be..............."). The same Word was with God in the beginning that is with God today: His means of communicating with that which He chooses.

Then men with pagan beliefs in multi part gods came along and decided that if their gods were 'multi part gods, then it only stood to reason that this 'new God' must be 'muti part' as well. So they argued and twisted and turned until they 'created' a 'new multi part god' in Christianity. And just look at the means that they used to force it upon the masses. This 'idea' that God is 'three persons in one God'. They tortured and murdered those that opposed their 'idea'. Think about it. They killed people that refused to accept an 'idea'. Not criminals, not thieves or rapists or murderers, they became murderers in order to force this 'idea' onto all under their dominion. While introducing their subjects to a 'God of mercy', they tortured and murdered those that opposed this 'idea' of 'trinity'. Three persons in one God.

And what is even worse, they create an incomprehensible 'idea', (one that cannot be fathomed. One plus one plus one equals three. Even early school children know this to be fact), and then threaten to torture or murder any that oppose their 'idea'. An idea that even those that created can't even fathom. For the 'truth' is, no matter how you talk around it, one plus one plus one equals three. Not one.

As Thomas Jefferson stated: when one can be convinced that three equals one, there is nothing that they can't be convinced of no matter how absurd. Like a 'ship without a rudder', they become liable to follow whatever direction the wind blows.

"Trinity" is a purely man made doctrine that does not exist in the scriptures. Only a handful of scriptures can be used to even 'say' that it exists in the Bible. Yet one is forced to ignore or alter all the rest that oppose 'trinity' in order to accept it.

And think about this: the same people that nailed Christ to the cross are the one's that 'created trinity'. What would be the likelihood that God would inspire the very people that nailed His Son to the cross to 'create' this concept of 'trinity'? A concept never mentioned by a single prophet, God's own Son or His apostles?

We are told not to accept any doctrine that was 'not' delivered by the apostles. We are warned that men would 'lead us astray' if we allow them to. Make merchandise of us.

Paul stated that there were those that had already 'gone out from among us' that were teaching damnable heresy. While he was still alive. What do you suppose Paul would have offered concerning 'trinity' if he were still alive when Romans started introducing the 'idea'?

No folks, the Bible does 'not' teach 'trinity'. The word 'trinity' doesn't even exist in the Bible. Why? Why do you suppose something that is 'so important' to those that insist that it exists isn't even mentioned in the Bible? Is God really that lame? So lame that He left it up to 'men' to create instead of revealing it openly? Everything else God wanted us to 'know' what revealed openly and clearly. Yet men had to 'guess' at this 'trinity'? No single mention of it in the entirety of scripture? hmmm.........any other doctrine created under such circumstances would 'scream' heresy. Yet people seem to be drawn to this 'trinity' even though it's very formation couldn't be more suspect.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

How about simplicity?

If no one had ever mentioned 'trinity', and you read these words without any such influence, "My God, my God why hath thou forsaken me?" What would you say that we could gather from them? A man hanging on a 'cross' stating, "My God, my God why hath thou forsaken me?"

And now let's consider what men must 'make up' to make these words 'fit' this idea of 'trinity'? I have heard explanations so absurd as to make me laugh. You know, 'well, you have to consider that Christ was 'fully man/fully God. So when He made this exclamation He was in 'fully man' mode".

Oh my. The lengths one must go to in order to defend 'trinity'. And for what? An idea 'never' taught by Christ or His apostles. Men claiming to be followers of Christ, choosing instead to be followers of ideas 'created by men'??????

If one aspect of the 'doctrine of trinity' is false, the entire doctrine is false. Christ and the Father are 'not equal'. The Bible states it. Christ Himself states it. So that utterly destroys any possibility of 'trinity' being true.

Christ states that the Father is 'greater than the Son'. That simple. This destroys any possibility of 'trinity' being 'truth'. This makes it perfectly clear that Father and Son are 'not' equal. Yet 'trinity' relies upon the belief that Father and Son are 'equal' parts of ONE God. But they are not.

The Bible points to Christ being created. There are numerous scripture that state that the Son was 'created' by God, His Father.

Firstborn of 'every creature'. The 'beginning of the creation of God'. Numerous places where the bible states that Christ was 'made' by God, His Father. And consider this: what was the 'first thing' that God created? Yet it wasn't until day 'three' that the stars and sun and moon were created. Think about it. What is Christ referred to over and over again throughout the NT? The 'Light' of this world. And what was the first thing God 'spoke' into existence. Even when we read John 1, (read it yourself), it points out that Christ is the "Light of this world". In recapping 'creation', John 1 plainly illustrates that 'Christ is the Light of this world. But He is certainly not 'physical light'. For He is not 'the Sun', but the Son. Nor is He the moon or the stars.

The 'in the beginning God said,,,,,,,,,,,,, is not 'physical light'. Isn't it obvious that what God created was the "light of this world'? Not 'physical light', but His own Son being begotten as the 'Light of this world'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[JCFantasy23]

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[Truthfrees]

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Trinity vs Non-Trinitarian Theology discussions will no longer be allowed in CCT.

Trinity discussions will be allowed in Christian Only areas.

Non-Trinitarian Theology will only be allowed in NonChristianReligions and ChristianityAndWorldReligions in the context of Islam, Judaism, LDS, JW, Baha'i.