The fatal flaw of Universalism

Eloy Craft · Jan 11, 2020

The lake of fire has become purgatory

In the lake of fire what is removed and what remains?

To know God is to love God is a false notion

If my final end is heaven regardless of my faith why bother evangelizing. Why be concerned for anther persons soul? Why bother conforming to Christ?

Saint Steven · Jan 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

Why not? Because you think I'm stupid. ???
You aren't playing nice. Make my day by blaming your bad behavior on me.
And don't forget to enjoy it. Thanks.

Charlie24 · Jan 11, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Why not? Because you think I'm stupid. ???
You aren't playing nice. Make my day by blaming your bad behavior on me.
And don't forget to enjoy it. Thanks.

You're not stupid by any means!

You are confused, and I am praying for you my Brother!

Saint Steven · Jan 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Jesus plainly said there is a sin that will not be forgiven in this world nor the one to come.

There goes your greater hope in just one verse!

That's some pretty flimsy logic.
If there is only one sin that will not be forgiven, then that's the only sin that will send you to hell. Yet no one can agree on what that sin is. Therefore no one knows whether they have committed it or not. And even if you receive Christ you will not be forgiven. Is that what you are saying?

The unpardonable sin is a proof for Universalism. - lol

Charlie24 · Jan 11, 2020

Saint Steven said:
That's some pretty flimsy logic.
If there is only one sin that will not be forgiven, then that's the only sin that will send you to hell. Yet no one can agree on what that sin is. Therefore no one knows whether they have committed it or not. And even if you receive Christ you will not be forgiven. Is that what you are saying?

The unpardonable sin is a proof for Universalism. - lol

Ask FL, he can set you straight on that.

Of course he will agree with you on proof of the greater hope.

But that will be another contradiction!

Saint Steven · Jan 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
You're not stupid by any means!

You are confused, and I am praying for you my Brother!

That's why I love you, Charlie.
I know that you have good intentions in all of this.

And just to be clear, I don't expect you to embrace Universalism, I just want you to understand it. I hope you are learning something in all of this. Your OP indicated that you really don't understand UR as of yet.

I had suggested a different approach on a previous topic. How about laying down your weapons and just talk to us? Rather than focus on defending Damnationism, ask us questions about the greater hope. Have you read Thomas Allin yet?

Saint Steven · Jan 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Ask FL, he can set you straight on that.

Of course he will agree with you on proof of the greater hope.

But that will be another contradiction!

If Jesus said that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only sin that will not be forgiven, what does that say about every other sin? (they will be forgiven)

Charlie24 · Jan 11, 2020

Saint Steven said:
That's why I love you, Charlie.
I know that you have good intentions in all of this.

And just to be clear, I don't expect you to embrace Universalism, I just want you to understand it. I hope you are learning something in all of this. Your OP indicated that you really don't understand UR as of yet.

I had suggested a different approach on a previous topic. How about laying down your weapons and just talk to us? Rather than focus on defending Damnationism, ask us questions about the greater hope. Have you read Thomas Allin yet?

Can't do that brother! I have no desire to research something that I know is not the truth.

The Lord will not allow it. The scripture says to abstain from all appearance of evil.

This is an evil thing you have allowed yourself to get involved.

But as long as there is life there is hope. I do believe you will find the truth, the Lord has led me to believe this.

Something is different about you in this belief, I can sense it. I can also sense the Lord is doing His work in you Brother.

FineLinen · Jan 11, 2020

Eloy Craft said:
The lake of fire has become purgatory

In the lake of fire what is removed and what remains?

To know God is to love God is a false notion

If my final end is heaven regardless of my faith why bother evangelizing. Why be concerned for anther persons soul? Why bother conforming to Christ?

Dear Eloy: Being conformed to the image of Christ is the very thing our Father has destined for every one called to be a disciple. It is no bother, but His expectations!

The Ending is the Beginning

He is the ta panta (Source, Guide, Goal of the all.)

.

FineLinen · Jan 11, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me. (Mt 25:42-3)

Dear Shrewd: That is precisely what the Master of Reconciliation declares as the foundation of "everlasting punishment". Evidently the cornerstone text has some of our heads being scratched, not Charles of course, who will only take the Scripture as his guide. LOL.

Saint Steven · Jan 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Can't do that brother! I have no desire to research something that I know is not the truth.

The Lord will not allow it. The scripture says to abstain from all appearance of evil.

This is an evil thing you have allowed yourself to get involved.

How do you know anything if you haven't done your homework?

You refuse to learn about it on the basis that it is not true.
But how do you know it isn't true if you haven't learned about it.

This sounds like a fear of the unknown. You are probably afraid that if you really understood it you would come to believe it. And if you came to believe it you would be shunned by your church. Your whole future (you think) depends on not rocking the boat.

There is nothing evil about studying something to understand it. Don't you have classes on understanding the cults through your church or denomination? Is it evil to attend such classes?

The evil you see in UR is a figment of your imagination. A monster under the bed. A boogeyman in the closet. Is not the one in you greater? This fear is irrational.

Saint Steven · Jan 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Something is different about you in this belief, I can sense it. I can also sense the Lord is doing His work in you Brother.

Something different about me? Compared to what? - lol

I agree that something is different. I'm happier and more at peace.
I can look at someone and know that they will be reconciled to God some day, rather than assume they will burn forever. So yes, the Lord is doing His work in me. I guess I agree with both your statements. Just not in the way you meant them.

Charlie24 · Jan 11, 2020

FineLinen said:
Dear Shrewd: That is precisely what the Master of Reconciliation declares as the foundation of "everlasting punishment". Evidently the cornerstone text has some of our heads being scratched, not Charles of course, who will only take the Scripture as his guide. LOL.

I take that as one of the greatest compliments I have ever received.

I am humbled before the Lord that you would suggest it.

Our Lord is a gracious and loving Father, who can know His wisdom?

Who can question His righteous judgement?

Saint Steven · Jan 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Who can question His righteous judgement?

Right, if you question it they march you straight to the BBQ pit.
You might even get a choice... original recipe, or extra crispy?

Charlie24 · Jan 11, 2020

Saint Steven said:
How do you know anything if you haven't done your homework?

You refuse to learn about it on the basis that it is not true.
But how do you know it isn't true if you haven't learned about it.

This sounds like a fear of the unknown. You are probably afraid that if you really understood it you would come to believe it. And if you came to believe it you would be shunned by your church. Your whole future (you think) depends on not rocking the boat.

There is nothing evil about studying something to understand it. Don't you have classes on understanding the cults through your church or denomination? Is it evil to attend such classes?

The evil you see in UR is a figment of your imagination. A monster under the bed. A boogeyman in the closet. Is not the one in you greater? This fear is irrational.

There is no possibility of Charlie ever believing in UR!

When Jesus said to the Sanhedrin, you hypocrites an vipers, how shall you enter into the Kingdom of God.

I do not believe this was temporary. In fact, I know it was not temporary.

Saint Steven · Jan 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
There is no possibility of Charlie ever believing in UR!

If that is true then you should have no reason to be fearful of it.
And if you really understood it, you would be better equipped to refute it. Win/win

Charlie24 · Jan 11, 2020

Saint Steven said:
If that is true then you should have no reason to be fearful of it.
And if you really understood it, you would be better equipped to refute it. Win/win

I think I know enough to refute it.

I don't have time to study such nonsense when I have only scratched the surface of God's Word in my lifetime.

I want to grow in Christ, not get bogged down in nonsense that leads nowhere.

Saint Steven · Jan 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
When Jesus said to the Sanhedrin, you hypocrites an vipers, how shall you enter into the Kingdom of God.

I do not believe this was temporary. In fact, I know it was not temporary.

Sounds like a misquote. But that agrees with Universalism. (the actual quote, I mean)

How do you "know" it is not temporary? Is it because God is not merciful? Is it because God will not forgive his enemies as he requires us to do? Why exactly?

Saint Steven · Jan 11, 2020

Charlie24 said:
I think I know enough to refute it.

Bring it on then. Why do you sit there doing nothing?

Charlie24 · Jan 11, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Bring it on then. Why do you sit there doing nothing?

LOL, that's what Liston said just before Ali knocked him out.

The fatal flaw of Universalism

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