THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

[ClementofA]

What's your problem with babies being resurrected saved??

Didn't my post make that clear:

Yes. Any one that is raised at the first resurrection are raised unto life eternal with Jesus.

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

After the 1000 years is the judgment of the wicked. Then the earth is remade. All the righteous will live with Jesus forever.

Then that brings backs my earlier remarks on this topic:

You said there were only 8 saved in reference to Noah's time. Now you're saying all the babies who died in the flood were also saved. Any others? Children, teens, mentally challenged, those who never heard the gospel?

So there was salvation not only by faith & getting in the ark. There was also salvation without faith by drowning. Are there any other methods of salvation you'ld like to share?

But then you responded that the babies who drowned will also have faith. Who is going to - force - this faith & salvation on them w/o giving them a free choice? Yet you keep objecting to the idea of those in the lake of fire being forced to be saved. Evidently your view of Love Omnipotent is that it's okay to force Himself on others sometimes but not at other times. Yet you claimed that love does not force. But now you have the Saviour of all forcing faith on certain people, namely babies, & probably children & the mentally challenged, too, eh? What about those who never heard the gospel?

So you have two methods leading to salvation in this life: (1) faith & (2) death to certain groups of peope. Any others you'ld like to share?

I find it funny that for all your long worded posts---still not one scripoture that says anyone comes out of the lake of fire unto life eternal with Jeus.

Do you also find it funny that for all your long worded posts---still not one scripture that says anyone DOES NOT come out of the lake of fire unto life eternal with Jeus.

And why should Love Almighty be required to use your exact words revealing salvation to those in the LOF when He has already done so in many different ways. It's a ridiculous requirement, as if not being able to provide those exact words somehow defeats universalism. Nonsense. And in the above paragraph i turned it around on you, using your own words against your own argument. Lol, eh?

None of your verses prove your theory.

Easy to say. But can you prove it?

God has us go through our refining fires in this life---not after death.

Thus sayeth you. Where is the Scripture that says "God has us go through our refining fires in this life---not after death."

Otherwise there is no need of Jesus to save us for everyone will be saved by the fire not by choosing Him while we are on this earth.

Nonsense. There is a need to be saved now. Torments in the lake of fire await the wicked.

Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death.

Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

The gates of the city are closed---as it comes down---as protection against the wicked that have all assembled to come to take it by force.

Scripture? Or opinion?

That outside the gates are the wicked just means that those will never come in.

Outside the gates means outside the gates. Not what you added to the words of God.

Nothing wicked, nothing that abhors God will ever come into the city.

Not till they're washed clean. Just like anyone inside.

It does not mean that outside the city still there is sin and death and wickedness.

When we are told the wicked are outside the New Jerusalem, that does not mean they have recieved an endless Hitler nuking of them into unending oblivion after they were tormented to death in the fiery lake. Rather it means they are still there, alive.

For God will have destroiyed all that in the lake of fire.

I never read that verse in the Bible "For God will have destroiyed all that in the lake of fire." Where is that, in John's nonexistent Revelation Part II?

Why you can not understand that when sin dies, all death dies for sin brings death.

Why you can not understand that when sin dies, all death dies and Love Omnipotent becomes "all in all" (1 Cor.15:22-28), i.e. universalism happens.

All sin--and death--is destroyed in the lake of fire and nothing remians but ashes over which the New Earth is created.

mmksparbud's chapter 6 verse 66 or John's nonexistent Revelation Part II?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying,

If there were wicked outside the city---there would still be sin, death, crying, all is destroyed in the lake of fire once and for all.

Scripture says there - are - wicked outside the city. So you should understand Rev.21:4 to be referring to what occurs within the New Jerusalem only, where God's people shall be, which is what the immediate context is talking about.

Rev.22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

That makes absolutely no sense. Again, what your saying is the second death has no power. What power does it have?

Death in the Scriptures can refer to when a person's body dies, such as when Jesus died & was thereafter put in a tomb. It can also refer to death figuratively, or spiritual death, such as when Jesus says "Let the dead bury the dead". So, probably, the "second death" refers to one or both of those types of death, & the power they have. In any case, since death will be abolished & God become "all in all", as Scripture states in 1 Cor.15:22-28, we have good reason to believe that no one will remain in death forever, whether it's death or second death.

Fortunately no "eternal death" ever appears in the Sacred Scriptures (66 books of the Bible). To the contrary, death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26).

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."

1 Cor.15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

How many will be "under His feet"? Just enemies or all:

1 Cor.15:27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all has been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all to Him is excepted.

So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:

1 Cor.15:28 And when all shall be subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all under him, that God may be all in all.

And again, not everyone is written in the book of "life"

Everyone will eventually have "life":

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Yes, after the lake of fire has done it's job there will be no more death.

After people are judged & cast into the lake of fire (LOF) there will be a new heavens & earth (Rev.20, 21). The dwelling place of God's people will be the New Jerusalem (Rev.21:2-3) & therein - there - will be no more death or pain. Yet death will remain & not be abolished in the lake of fire, for torments there will continue "into the ages of the ages" (Rev.14:11; 20:10). At the same time, "into the ages of the ages", the saints will reign (Rev.21:5). Who would they be reigning over if no one exists in the LOF? How could pain be no more everywhere while the wicked are still being tormented in the LOF at the same time the Scriptures say the saints are reigning? How could death be abolished everywhere while the second death still continues? Impossible. Neither could Love Omnipotent be "all in all" (1 Cor.15:28) while any of the wicked are still wicked and in pain being tormented.

1 Cor.15:22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified." 23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;" 24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power." 25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy is being abolished: death. 27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him." 28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)" (CLV)

And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of the world did become those of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign into the ages of the ages!' (Rev.11:15)

9 And a third angel followed them, calling in loud a voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or hand, 10 he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up into the ages of ages, and they have no respite day and night who do homage to the beast and to its image, and if any one receive the mark of its name. (Rev.14:9-11)

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Rev.19:20)

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- into the ages of the ages. (Rev.20:10)

3No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him. 4 They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5 And night shall not be any more, and no need of a lamp, and light of the sun; for the Lord God shall shine upon them, and they shall reign into the ages of ages. (Rev.22:3-5)

The verses above indicate Christ & the saints shall be reigning "into the ages of the ages", including the millenial age & the age when the lake of fire (= the 2nd death) is abolished. But 1 Cor.15:25 says Christ's reign is UNTIL He has put all enemies under His feet. Since He is still reigning at the time of Revelation 20-22, all enemies are not yet under His feet. So neither is God yet "All in all" (1 Cor.15:28) nor is death [e.g. 2nd death] abolished yet.

So death is not abolished (1 Cor.15:26), since that is associated with the end of Christ's reign (v.25) & will not happen till He quits reigning. Also those humans who died a second death in the lake of fire, which is the second death, are still dead, so death is not yet abolished (v.26). As long as the second death remains & is not abolished, death is not abolished as per v.26.

Neither is "all rule and authority and power" yet nullified (1 Cor.15:24) by Revelation 21-22. There are still kings in the earth (Rev.21:24). There is still the throne of the Lamb & the saints reigning (22:3,5). So neither is death abolished or God "all in all" (1 Cor.15:28).
God cannot be "all in all" (1 Cor.15:28) while there are still those in the second death & those being tormented in the lake of fire (Rev.14:9-11; 19:20; 20:10).

In Revelation 22:2 we also have leaves that are for the healing of the nations. Who at this time would need healing?

Eventually God will be making all new (Rev.21:5) & will be "in all" (1 Cor.15:28).

The abolishing of death means an end to the death of those in the second death, which means their resurrection "in Christ" as per 1 Cor.15:22-28.

For further reading, here is an interesting article on the subject:

http://home.earthlink.net/~btodd1/asinadam.html

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

75 UR verses + 100 proofs + 150 reasons etc:
Web Online Help

213 Questions Without Answers:
Questions Without Answers

 

[agapelove]

I never said a thing about your relationship with God. I am stating what I believe uni's theory about everyone being saved no matter what they've done leads to. No I am not one, never will be one. The bible does not support this belief as far as I'm concerned. You are free to believe whatever you want---so am I. This is a debating forum so I am debating against this.

Ma'am do you hear yourself. You are saying I have no faith and that essentially I have no relationship with God. You have not presented anything debatable only loaded assumptions. If you want to talk scripture do it.

See---you can not tell me that believing that even Satan is saved, is going to lead to a greater faith in the power of Jesus to save us from sin for it is the power of the lake of fire that is doing this.

It takes a whole lot of trust, hope, and courage to challenge tradition and authority everyday. How does this not lead to greater faith? I believe that the promise of salvation for all AND the defeat of Satan was accomplished at the cross. Matthew 28:18 makes it very clear that Jesus has all authority now. We can live out that truth or continue to deceive ourselves. He will reign until all things are subject to Him, so that God will be ALL IN ALL. Is the lake of fire an extermination furnace or torture chamber? No! It is the CONSUMING FIRE OF GOD.

Believing a lie never leads to anything good. No one needs to live their life on earth closer to Jesus and His will in our lives. It doesn't matter what you do. You can deny that till the cows come home---Living a life of sin does not matter for everyone will be saved. As to whether you personally is going to live your life according to the will of God---I don't know what you're going to do. I am stating that as a general rule---what you do does not matter. The bath in the lake of fire will take care of everything. Thing is---no one comes out of that lake of fire and no one here has ben able to prove that anyone can change their mind after death.

Likewise, you have also not been able to prove that nobody comes out of the Lake of Fire. Your continuous argument that universalism suddenly means free pass to sin proves to me that the only thing keeping YOU from sinning is your fear of not going to Heaven. Sister let me tell you! There are better reasons to follow Jesus!

The rich man and Lazarus is a parable not a statement of the state of the dead. If you go back to the stsrt of this encounter you will note that the Pharisees were there. Jesus was taslking for their benefit and He said what this was about
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Mar 4:33 And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.
Mar 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Jesus did go on to raise a real Lazarus, and the Pharisees still did not believe.

It is irrelevant to me whether the story is a parable or fact. The point is... it matters greatly how you live your life!!! Those who experienced hardship and struggle in this life will receive comfort in the next, and the reverse is true also-- so that the FIRST will be LAST and the LAST will be FIRST. This is why Jesus' entire ministry was based on caring for the poor and needy and looking out for the least of these.

We will not know until we are resurrected and are with Him. We can only see with our eyes noiw--0we will really see Him then and we will throw our crowns at His feet. I've had prove of His goodness to me for years now and spend most of my time thanking Him. I have felt His peace as I lay dying in the hospital and I have no fear of death---been there done that yuou might say. I am looking forward to having that peace again--it was His arms around me. I've had countless prayers answered. I know a little of His love, I will know more.

Sounds like God really loves you! Now take that love and apply it to everyone. Universalism 101.

I asked you to repeat your question for I have no idea what you are talking about. As I recollect it has something to do with a flaw in a person that brings about their downfall. Ussualy was about Greek tragedies. What has that to do with babies and hell?

A lot more than you would think! Do some proper research on the origin of the word, then let me know how you think God looks upon sin, and how God looks upon sinners.

 

[agapelove]

The gates of the city are closed---as it comes down---as protection against the wicked that have all assembled to come to take it by force.

I would suggest cross referencing with scripture before you post.

Revelation 21:25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.

 

[mmksparbud]

Ma'am do you hear yourself. You are saying I have no faith and that essentially I have no relationship with God. You have not presented anything debatable only loaded assumptions. If you want to talk scripture do it.

Do you hear yourself? I said quite clearly that I said nothing about your own personal relationship to God---and you turn around and say that I said you have no faith!! What I see is that a few people on here have a problem understanding English! This is what you responded to:

"I never said a thing about your relationship with God. I am stating what I believe uni's theory about everyone being saved no matter what they've done leads to. No I am not one, never will be one. The bible does not support this belief as far as I'm concerned. You are free to believe whatever you want---so am I. This is a debating forum so I am debating against this."

How in the world can you turn around and accuse me of saying that you personally have no relationship with God?

It takes a whole lot of trust, hope, and courage to challenge tradition and authority everyday. How does this not lead to greater faith? I believe that the promise of salvation for all AND the defeat of Satan was accomplished at the cross. Matthew 28:18 makes it very clear that Jesus has all authority now. We can live out that truth or continue to deceive ourselves. He will reign until all things are subject to Him, so that God will be ALL IN ALL. Is the lake of fire an extermination furnace or torture chamber? No! It is the CONSUMING FIRE OF GOD.

I'm very glad you do---I am stating in general terms and you keep insisting on making this a personal statement about your own relationship with God!!
God is a consuming fire---that is stated in several verses. However---and I will post this once again--

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

God is not a consuming, devouring fire to the saved---find me a verse where His fire came down on any sinner that it did not consume and destroy. As Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego-- His fire does not consume the righteous, only sinners. The lake of fire is where sinners go--it is His fire, it destroys sin. Unrepentant sinners can not stand in the presence e of a Holy God and live. Satan was defeated at the cross---he is still leading people to sin:

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

and He will continue until he leads a total revolt with all the wicked who try to take God's city by force. So none of those wicked raised at the 2nd resurrection are in any way repentant---when that fire comes down, it is a consuming devouring fire and will destroy sin---which means sinners including Satan. Those verses have been posted many, many times and all anyone can do is totally ignore them.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

And don't bother giving that old thing about this is only referring to the King of Tyre---it is not. Lucifer was a covering cherub before he fell and was caste from heaven. Gabriel is the one now that stands in the presence of God in his stead. Satan will not be saved, he and those who follow him will be ashes and the New Jerusalem will settle down on a remade earth over all those ashes. This is what God has said and that is what He will do.

It is irrelevant to me whether the story is a parable or fact. The point is... it matters greatly how you live your life!!! Those who experienced hardship and struggle in this life will receive comfort in the next, and the reverse is true also-- so that the FIRST will be LAST and the LAST will be FIRST. This is why Jesus' entire ministry was based on caring for the poor and needy and looking out for the least of the

Yes, it matters! But not to those who think God is going to even save Satan and anyone who is an unrepentant sinner and they will just have to go through a bath in the lake of fire! It is the blood of Jesus that saves, not the lake of fire. No one comes out of that lake of fire---they are consumed, devoured.

A lot more than you would think! Do some proper research on the origin of the word, then let me know how you think God looks upon sin, and how God looks upon sinners.

I did and I don't see where it is of any value to anyone outside of a Greek tragedy. You guys come up with your own definitions so you woill have to tell me what it is you think it means and supply the verses related to it.

I am much too tired---I must go now. Oh---this will never happen!

Sounds like God really loves you! Now take that love and apply it to everyone. Universalism 101.

I would have to throw out half the bible to do so!

 

[FineLinen]

THE NATURE OF GOD

God is love and love worketh no ill. “God is love.” (1 John 4:8).

“Love worketh no ill.” (Rom. 13:10).

God’s nature is the very essence of benevolence, and benevolence cannot be the origin of endless evil. If love worketh no ill, God can work no ill; and, therefore, God cannot be the author of endless evil.

God loves all mankind. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son.” (John 3:16) And, as Jesus died for all men, so God loves all men.

God loves even his enemies.

For he requires men to love their enemies, which he could not do if he hated his. (Matt. 5:44)

And Jesus declared, “for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.” (Luke 6:35). This is but an amplification of the preceding argument.

If God loves his enemies, he certainly loves all men; for no one doubts that he loves his friends. And can God cause those to be endlessly miserable whom he loves? -Thomas Whittemore-

 

[JulieB67]

Clem, why are you copying my posts from another thread into this one?

My post

That makes absolutely no sense. Again, what your saying is the second death has no power. What power does it have?

Your answer

Death in the Scriptures can refer to when a person's body dies, such as when Jesus died & was thereafter put in a tomb. It can also refer to death figuratively, or spiritual death, such as when Jesus says "Let the dead bury the dead". So, probably, the "second death" refers to one or both of those types of death, & the power they have. In any case, since death will be abolished & God become "all in all", as Scripture states in 1 Cor.15:22-28, we have good reason to believe that no one will remain in death forever, whether it's death or second death.

What stood out to me were your words -"So, probably, the "second death" refers to one or both of those types of death, & the power they have"

Here was my answer to you in another thread,

There's nothing probable about the second death. This is the second death,

Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" That's biblical

By not posting my answer you are giving people on this thread a one sided conversation.

This is my first post on this thread and only because of this. So you quoting me here is giving the impression that I'm part of the conversation here and I'm not.

And there are other posts you've pulled over without my answers.

 

[FineLinen]

Clem, why are you bringing my posts from another thread into this one?

Julie: Good ole "Clem" is more than up to responding to anything you post ! !

 

[JulieB67]

Julie: Good ole "Clem" is more than up to responding to anything you post ! !

That's not my point. We had this conversation on the "Who goes to Hell Thread" To which Clem already responded.

Clem brought my questions with his answers onto this thread, of which of which I had never posted on "this' thread. What Clem failed to do though was bring over my answers as well. So it is showing a one sided conversation. Why not just leave my posts on the other thread where they belong to, not this one?

 

[ClementofA]

Clem, why are you copyingt my posts from another thread into this one?

It wasn't your post. It was my post. And it addresses the subject being discussed with the person i posted it to.

 

[FineLinen]

THE NATURE OF GOD

God is love and love worketh no ill. “God is love.” (1 John 4:8).

“Love worketh no ill.” (Rom. 13:10).

God’s nature is the very essence of benevolence, and benevolence cannot be the origin of endless evil. If love worketh no ill, God can work no ill; and, therefore, God cannot be the author of endless evil.

God loves all mankind. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son.” (John 3:16) And, as Jesus died for all men, so God loves all men.

God loves even his enemies.

For he requires men to love their enemies, which he could not do if he hated his. (Matt. 5:44)

And Jesus declared, “for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.” (Luke 6:35). This is but an amplification of the preceding argument.

If God loves his enemies, he certainly loves all men; for no one doubts that he loves his friends. And can God cause those to be endlessly miserable whom he loves? -Thomas Whittemore-

THE WISDOM OF GOD

God is wise; and it cannot be a dictate of wisdom to create beings, and then make their existence a curse by entailing endless suffering to it.

God foresaw all the consequences of our creation when he made us. He knew fully what the result would be to each individual.

Is it possible, that infinite goodness could breathe life into unoffending dust, when it was clearly foreseen that endless evil would ensue?

It was not possible. God must have created only to bless. “Love worketh no ill.”

The wisdom of God is “full of mercy,” and “without partiality.” (James 3:17).

“Full of mercy,” says Adam Clarke, i.e. “ready to pass by a transgression, and to grant forgiveness to those who offend; and performing every possible act of kindness..”

Surely, a God of infinite power and skill, who “performs every possible act of kindness,” will save his fallen creatures from their sins. “Without partiality,” i.e. without making a difference.

God is no respecter of persons. He is kind to all men, and he will perform every “possible act of kindness” to all men.

-Thomas Whittemore-

 

[ClementofA]

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And what you left out is those who were devoured & destroyed by fire from God (Rev.20:9) are thereafter raised from the dead to be judged (Rev.20:11-15). The fire of God didn't annihilate them forever.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That translation would refute your own endless annihilation viewpoint, if it wasn't a misleading and deceptive translation.

More accurate, literal & honest translations say:

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night-to the ages of the ages. (Rev.20:10, YLT)

And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons. (Rev.20:10, Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983)

...and the Adversary that had been deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [were] both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented
day and night unto the ages of ages. (Rev.20:10, Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959

American Standard Version footnote: *Gr. unto the ages of the ages.
Revised Version, 1881 footnote: *Gr. unto the ages of the ages.

12 points re forever and ever being finite:
For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Also, "forever and ever" is nonsense. No time can be added to "forever".

Rev.21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making all new!”

2 Cor.5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all is become new.

Chapter Five

Why Can't Aionas Ton Aionon Mean Eternity?


Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Rev.15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

This sounds like just payback, not endless annihilation or tortures:

Rev.18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

Rev.21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making all new!”

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour,
and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour,
and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

forever and ever: a poor translation:

Why Can't Aionas Ton Aionon Mean Eternity?

Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

#4

Aeon - Wikipedia

AIN -- AINIOS

The Greek Words "aion" and "aionios," do these words mean "eternal" or "everlasting"?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

It doesn't matter what you post.

They will just post the same copy and pasted wall of text that they do on Every Page over and over.

.

 

[ClementofA]

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Re Mal. 4 do you think this is talking about the LOF:

3"You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing," says the LORD of hosts.

1Cor.15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Burned up does not mean endlessly annihilated out of existence. People are cremated, i.e. burned up, every day. Guess what? Everyone of them will be resurrected back to life. They were "burned up" but not annihilated out of existence forever. Therefore the two words "burned up" do not support your theory. You are wrong in saying they mean anyone is endlessly annihilated.

Second death. You've provided no evidence "second death" means endlessly annihilated. How do you explain those alive in the lake of fire? Alive is not dead.

The reference to "left neither root nor branch" (Mal.4) is figurative language. Human beings aren't trees. Malachi 4 speaks of what will happen on a "day", not in eternity. The wicked will be ashes under the feet of the righteous. This passage, like the others, does not deny a future resurrection to these wicked, nor affirm them being endlessly annihilated, so does not support your theory. You have to read that into the context by assumption and add your theory to the words of God in Malachi 4. Because it isn't there.

Ashes refer to physical bodies, not bodyless souls. So that their bodies in the LOF become ashes doesn't deal with the matter of whether or not a soul can repent in the LOF. Any references to unbelievers & ashes (i.e. being cremated) are irrelevant to the topic of their final destiny if you believe that the soul lives on after the death of the body.

Malachi 1:11 ESV

For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense will be offered to my name, and a pure offering. For my name will be great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts.

Malachi 3:2-4 But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. "He will sit as a smelter
and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness. "Then the
offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years.

Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

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[ClementofA]

Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

And don't bother giving that old thing about this is only referring to the King of Tyre---it is not. Lucifer was a covering cherub before he fell and was caste from heaven. Gabriel is the one now that stands in the presence of God in his stead. Satan will not be saved, he and those who follow him will be ashes and the New Jerusalem will settle down on a remade earth over all those ashes. This is what God has said and that is what He will do.

Even if the passage was speaking of Satan, it doesn't say (with an accurate honest translation) he will be annihilated.

Some of the more literal & honest translations say:

All knowing thee among the peoples Have been astonished at thee, Wastes thou hast been, and thou art not -- to the age.' "(Ezek.28:19, YLT)

All knowing you among the peoples Have been astonished at you, Wastes you have been, and you are not--to the eon. (CLV)

All that had known thee among the peoples were astounded over thee,— A terror, hast thou become, And art not I Unto times age-abiding. (Ro)

The Hebrew confirms the same, saying AD[5704] OLAM[5769], until eon. Rendering that "until forever" would be rather strange, if not nonsensical.

The passage reveals the person referred to is "not...to the eon". Meaning, for example, "not [around] to the eon". During the millenial eon Satan will be locked away, i.e. "not [around]". Then after being loosed for a little while he will be cast into the lake of fire & tormented "into the eons of the eons". So, again, he will be "not [around]" as far as his ruling the earth or bothering those in the New Jerusalem are concerned. None of this implies Satan will not be saved.

Ezekiel 28:18 speaks of the person becoming physical "ashes on the ground". A common sense reading of that could not apply it to a non physical spirit being such as Satan. So even if some of the previous verses identify the king of Tyre as Satan, arguably verses 18-19 do not. And that opposes your view of him being annihilated forever.

So, not surprisingly, some commentators think Ezekiel 28 speaks of both a human king over Tyre and Satan. IOW a dual prophecy. Though verses 2 & 9 identify him as a man, not Satan.

"I am aware of 'this pastor'. The verse which hit him like a ton of bricks as he wrestled with a congregant challenging him with Ultimate Reconciliation was the following;

COL 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

As he went through the doorway the Spirit of Truth challenged him saying; "What needs to be reconciled 'IN HEAVEN'?" After all, nothing in the heavenly realm needs reconciling but demons. Like the song says; "There is power power in the blood of Jesus." More power and a better plan, than the nominal church can even believe. To have ears to hear, one must loosen the death grip on what they believe."

Here is my post to you (yet unanswered) with the view there is no Satan in Ezekiel 28:

THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

 

[mmksparbud]

And what you left out is those who were devoured & destroyed by fire from God (Rev.20:9) are thereafter raised from the dead to be judged (Rev.20:11-15). The fire of God didn't annihilate them forever.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Where does it say they come out of the LOF? It says this is the 2nd DEATH. It does not say they come out unto eternal life with Christ.

Yes---they are tormented for a period of time. Nothing states that they come out of that torment---0it is the 2nd death and it is annihilation. Not one of your verses says anyone came out, but it certainly says they die. Anyway you slice it---IT IS DEATH. AND IT MOST CERTAINLY INCLUDES SATAN. And in Ezk.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

This is most certainly Satan. You are saying that Satan can not be killed for he is a spirit----He is a created being, created by Jesus Christ and the fire oif Jesus devours and consumes the wicked. There is noine immortal save God---NONE!!!


1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Everything created by God can be destroyed by God.
Satan has maligned God ---in heaven and on earth. old will have everyone at the end to see and acknowledge that He is God and He is just in all He does. Every knee shall bow does not mean everyone will be saved but everyo9ne shall acknowledge His supreme authority and total justice. The wicked that bow are not repentant, anymore than the criminal in this world that has been judged guilty and have freely confessed they are guilty and say they are deserving of death (not all of them say it, but many have and in fact have said they would kill again if released). God's name will be vindicated.

During the 1000 years what do you think the saved are doing with God and the angels?

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Jesus will have already determined when He comes w3ho is saved and who is not for He comes only for the saved.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

During those 1000 years we will be examining the records of the unsaved and we will all know why they are not saved. There will be no doubt why someone you thought would certainly have been saved but is not there. We will see for ourselves the hidden thoughts and works of those that are not saved. Angels in heaven need no salvation, need not be judged---they are already with God. It is the wicked angels that we judge--we will see how they worked to enslave the world into sin. God will be seen as just by all. It in nio way means that the wicked are saved unto eternal life!

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Your pastor may have been hit by a ton of bricks---those bricks were not wielded by God!

And yes, Mal. is talking about the 2nd death. Word it however you want---the 2nd death is DEATH. It is not everlasting life!!

We are back to just repeating everything over and over---you can not make your case and--unfortunately, unless you actually hear the Holy Spirit and nit some man's philosophies---you will not see this until it is too late.

 

[ClementofA]

Now they do not have to have any faith in Him. Just go on with however you want to live your life for in the end, everyone will be saved---takes a load out of having the faith of Jesus in you. Jesus is not needed at all now---just go through this fire and come out into eternal life---even Satan.

Why did you leave out the part where the wicked unbelievers go to "hell" (Hades, lake of fire, etc) where they are tormented. Some even "into the ages of the ages" (Rev.14:11; 20:10). That doesn't fit in with your endless annihilation view where they are supposed to be non existent, not alive.

As for Satan, you misrepresent the facts. Namely that some universalists believe in his ultimate salvation, but others do not.

He who is the cause of so much ruination and suffering, he along with Hitler and all like him and all child molesters and every evil person ever who have died unrepentant will be saved---

The "worst of sinners", the persecutor & serial killer of Christians, has already been saved. So what's the problem?

since everyone is saved no matter what they do or don't do, nothing else does matter.

No one is saved now except those who believe.

Now, there is no longer any need to even study His word for truth, you have the only truth that matters which is---nothing else matters because everyone is saved.

Wrong. Tell that to those who will be tormented in the lake of fire "into the eons of the eons". And, again, no one is saved now except those who believe.

It doesn't even bother anybody that others are being led away from Jesus by this.

Do you have no awareness at all that many reject Jesus because of the portrayal of him as a sadistic Hitler like monster?

If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

You think you are leading people to God what you are doing is destroying their faith in the blood of Jesus to save them and instead have faith in the fire to be saved.

Nonsense upon nonsense. I tell people that the fire doesn't save. Jesus saves.

I know you will deny this---never the less, it is exactly what you are doing. And that is very, very sad.

Your post is full of misrepresentations of universalism. And you've been doing this for years, as a search of your forum posts will prove. And you're not the only SDA who has been doing the same here. Other annihilationists besides SDA are also guilty here of doing that. It's like you all have been reading the same propaganda.

 

[mmksparbud]

Why did you leave out the part where the wicked unbelievers go to "hell" (Hades, lake of fire, etc) where they are tormented. Some even "into the ages of the ages" (Rev.14:11; 20:10). That doesn't fit in with your endless annihilation view where they are supposed to be non existent, not alive.

As for Satan, you misrepresent the facts. Namely that some universalists believe in his ultimate salvation, but others do not.



The "worst of sinners", the persecutor & serial killer of Christians, has already been saved. So what's the problem?



No one is saved now except those who believe.



Wrong. Tell that to those who will be tormented in the lake of fire "into the eons of the eons". And, again, no one is saved now except those who believe.



Do you have no awareness at all that many reject Jesus because of the portrayal of him as a sadistic Hitler like monster?

If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?



Nonsense upon nonsense. I tell people that the fire doesn't save. Jesus saves.



Your post is full of misrepresentations of universalism. And you've been doing this for years, as a search of your forum posts will prove. And you're not the only SDA who has been doing the same here. Other annihilationists besides SDA are also guilty here of doing that. It's like you all have been reading the same propaganda.

Everything you have stated has no basis in fact nor in scripture. As I said, you will not understand the truth for you have shut out the voice of the Holy Spirit in preference to feel good fables by man. Because you can not scripturally make yo0ur case you now turn on us and call us liers and deceivers when it is you that are contrary to the word of God---stand operating procedure. And it is you guys that have been reading a bunch of propaganda put out by men who do not love the truth of God as it is written in the scriptures. You prove that by your constant posting of those words of men, not of God. Yes, all believers of annihilation are saying the same thing---for we are indeed reading the same "propaganda"---it's called the bible---you should read it some day through the eyes of the Holy Spirit and not some man.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[ClementofA]

Everything you have stated has no basis in fact nor in scripture. As I said, you will not understand the truth for you have shut out the voice of the Holy Spirit in preference to feel good fables by man. Because you can not scripturally make yo0ur case you now turn on us and call us liers and deceivers when it is you that are contrary to the word of God---stand operating procedure. And it is you guys that have been reading a bunch of propaganda put out by men who do not love the truth of God as it is written in the scriptures. You prove that by your constant posting of those words of men, not of God. Yes, all believers of annihilation are saying the same thing---for we are indeed reading the same "propaganda"---it's called the bible---you should read it some day through the eyes of the Holy Spirit and not some man.

I'll leave that in the post...for the record...of what you said. And may get back to it later.

Now, as for this poor translation:

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

A better translation is:

2 Thess.2:10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved, 11and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie, 12that they may be judged — all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness. (YLT)

Notice the tenses used..."perishing...being saved". At that moment they were not "being saved". So it doesn't rule out them being saved later.

Perishing is the same word used of the "lost" prodigal son who was saved. So that a person perishes does not mean they are lost forever or cannot be saved later.

The passage refers to the future when Christ returns. The lost will not be "being saved"...at that time. No reference is made in 2 Thess 2 to how long they will be punished, if such is
corrective or purely sadistic, or final destiny.

So 2 Thess.2:10 fails as an alleged "proof text" against universalism. What you need to disprove universalism is a verse saying anyone will "never be saved" or suffer "endless
punishment", etc. Since such does not exist, there is no Scriptural refutation of universalism.

Jesus didn't use the best words & expressions to describe endlessness in regards to punishment, because He didn't believe in endless punishment:

The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

None of the verses that anyone has posted refute universalism. They have all been addressed.

Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death.

Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.

Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.



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[mmksparbud]

2 Thess.2:10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved, 11and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie, 12that they may be judged — all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness. (YLT)

Notice the tenses used..."perishing...being saved". At that moment they were not "being saved". So it doesn't rule out them being saved later.

Even in your posted version it states "because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved," they did not receibve the truth for their being saved. Does not state what you want it so say. Sure---as long as they are alive there is a chance they will change their minds and accept truth. Nothing about anyone changing their minds after death. None of your verses prove that anjyone can change their mind after death.

 

[ClementofA]

Where does it say they come out of the LOF? It says this is the 2nd DEATH. It does not say they come out unto eternal life with Christ.

Why do you keep posting the same comments & verses that have already been addressed and ignore the replies to your posts. Do you think you can win a debate that way?

Where does it say they stay in the LOF and are NEVER saved? Nowhere.

I find it funny that for all your long worded posts---still not one scripoture that says anyone comes out of the lake of fire unto life eternal with Jeus.

Do you also find it funny that for all your long worded posts---still not one scripture that says anyone DOES NOT come out of the lake of fire unto life eternal with Jeus.

And why should Love Almighty be required to use your exact words revealing salvation to those in the LOF when He has already done so in many different ways. It's a ridiculous requirement, as if not being able to provide those exact words somehow defeats universalism. Nonsense. And in the above paragraph i turned it around on you, using your own words against your own argument. Lol, eh?

Yes---they are tormented for a period of time. Nothing states that they come out of that torment---0it is the 2nd death and it is annihilation.

Second death is never called endless annihilation. The first death was not endless annihilation either.


Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.

Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Not one of your verses says anyone came out, but it certainly says they die.

Death will be abolished & God "all in all", even all who were in Adam (1 Cor.15:22-28).

Anyway you slice it---IT IS DEATH. AND IT MOST CERTAINLY INCLUDES SATAN. And in Ezk.

Already addressed to you in posts you have never answered or refuted.

This is most certainly Satan. You are saying that Satan can not be killed for he is a spirit-

False. That is a misrepresentation. I never said that. I said a spirit being like Satan cannot become physical ashes, so Ezek. 28:18-19 does not refer to Satan. You have never addresed & refuted this point & you never will be able to.

Everything created by God can be destroyed by God.

A drunkard can be destroyed by alcohol & then recover.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom.6:23 here:

Romans 6:23 eternal life vs death

Compare:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."