THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

[a-lily-of-peace]

What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(Romans 6:21-23, NKJV)

 

[FineLinen]

And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
(Revelation 1:17-18, NKJV)

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:12-15, NKJV)

And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
(Revelation 21:6-8, NKJV)

 

[FineLinen]

The wonderful thing about our God is His essence (the fabric of what He is) is Spirit, Reconciliation, Light, Love & Fire.

Our God IS consuming Fire.

The Lake of Theos IS Fire, the identical pur of His Person.

Nothing, no one, escapes His Grasp without change & transformation!

 

[FineLinen]

"My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure."

"Whatever the Lord pleased, that did He, in heaven and on earth." - (Ps. 135:6)

"He does according to His will, in the armies of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth."

Scripture goes farther still.

It tells us plainly that the creature (creation) has been made "subject to vanity (sin and imperfection), not willingly, but by reason of Him who has subjected the same in hope." (Romans 8:20)

"God has shut up all unto disobedience that He might have mercy upon all " (Rom. 11:32)

We are plainly told that it is "not of him who wills, but of God who shows mercy."

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. (For they could not endure what was commanded:“And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said,“I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying,“Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven.” Now this,“Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.

For our God is a consuming fire.

(Hebrews 12:18-29, NKJV)

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority.

They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

(2 Peter 2:4-11, NKJV)

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

(2 Peter 3:10-13, NKJV)

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Lily: The Restitution of the all is not a take this leave that scenario. It is not!

Perhaps it would be wise to read and answer the 213 questions presented by ClementofA found below.

Questions Without Answers

Lets begin with these.

1. Will not the devil and all his works be destroyed? -- (Heb. 2:14; 1 John 3:8)
2. Will not death, the last enemy, be swallowed up in victory and destroyed? -- (Isa. 25:6-8; 1 Cor. 15:26-54)

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

If you want to talk about consuming fire you have to see what it means, as it is written, not interpreted.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

When I’m ready I won’t be afraid,

knowing I’m not ready puts the fear of God in me,

which is actually the beginning of wisdom.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

Dear Lily: The Restitution of the all is not a take this leave that scenario. It is not!

Perhaps it would be wise to read and answer the 213 questions presented by ClementofA found below.

Questions Without Answers

Lets begin with these.

1. Will not the devil and all his works be destroyed? -- (Heb. 2:14; 1 John 3:8)
2. Will not death, the last enemy, be swallowed up in victory and destroyed? -- (Isa. 25:6-8; 1 Cor. 15:26-54)

And to answer these questions, yes and yes.

 

[FineLinen]

And to answer these questions, yes and yes.

Absolutely!

The devil & all his works are destroyed.

Death the last enemy is swallowed up in victory.

Since this indeed is the case it will require how...

There is unending torment or alienation?

 

[FineLinen]

"THAT THROUGH DEATH HE MIGHT DESTROY THE DEVIL" (Hebr. 2:14)

The destruction of the devil who is holding the power of death, is quite inconsistent with the continuance of death and evil for the endless ages.

THE IMMUTABILITY OP HIS COUNSEL." (Heb. 6:17)

No real failure is possible.

What God's immutable counsel is, (the original word translated "willing" is the same as "counsel") here.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

Absolutely!

The devil & all his works are destroyed.

Death the last enemy is swallowed up in victory.

Since this indeed is the case it will require how...

There is unending torment or alienation?

I think it would relate to the meaning of “second death” since that’s used so often together with the lake of fire that there has to be something there which would tie together death being destroyed and the second death.

Possibly related to this:

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28, NKJV)

Where it’s possible that the destroyed soul is no longer dead because it is no longer at all.

But really I don’t know enough to worry so much about it.

 

[FineLinen]

I think it would relate to the meaning of “second death” since that’s used so often together with the lake of fire that there has to be something there which would tie together death being destroyed and the second death.

Bingo!

ALL death in all shapes and forms = thanantos.

ALL death is swallowed up in Zao Life!

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

Bingo!

ALL death in all shapes and forms = thanantos.

ALL death is swallowed up in Zao Life!

Then where do you distinguish between destruction and resurrection?

 

[FineLinen]

Then where do you distinguish between destruction and resurrection?

Destruction = apollumi

The uses of koine apollumi in Scripture =

(1) ruin, (2) do not bring about his ruin, (3) put to death, the wicked tenants, (4) he will put the evildoers to death, (5) destroy the wisdom of the wise, (6) destroy the understanding, (7) lose, (8) lose the reward, (9) lose what we have worked for, (10) lose one’s life, (11) lose oneself, (12) The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’), (13) ruined, (14) die, the man dies, (15) As a cry of anguish, we are perishing!, (16) of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer, (17) die by the sword, (18) die of hunger, (19) be corrupted, (20) killed by the snakes, (21) those who are lost, (22) of things be lost, (23) pass away, (24) be ruined, (26) of bursting wineskins, (25) fading beauty, (26) transitory beauty of gold, (27) passing splendor, (28) Of earthly food, (29) spoiled honey, (30) Of falling hair, (31) a member or organ of the body, (32) remnants of food, (33) of wine that has lost its flavor, (34) of sheep gone astray, (35) Of a lost son [that returned].

There is no support for “eternal death” in Scripture, NONE, nada.

In fact, the One who has triumphed over death, consumes all thanantos into Himself.

And there shall be no more death, neither sorrow nor crying > > >

The former things are done away."

Done away =

poieo = to seize lift up & take away.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

What I’m asking is whether there is a difference between a soul being destroyed and a soul being resurrected and if so why does Matthew 10:28 say destroy if that destruction is actually resurrection life?

 

[FineLinen]

What I’m asking is whether there is a difference between a soul being destroyed and a soul being resurrected and if so why does Matthew 10:28 say destroy if that destruction is actually resurrection life?

Lily: There is no stronger word for destruction in Scripture than apollumi.

The road into zao life is by way of destruction. It is not an end in itself!

"AND HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS; AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD." (1 John 2:2)

We are gravely told that "Omnipotence itself cannot save obstinate sinners.

In the matter of salvation we have an express assertion that even the camel can go through the needle's eye; for with God "ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE."

The propitiation is not to be confined to the few, it is for all. The narrower and wider purposes of salvation are both mentioned, but including and implying the wider; a truth of the deepest importance.

"HE WAS MANIFESTED TO TAKE AWAY SINS." (1 John 3:5)

Compare with John 1:29.

There Christ takes away the sin - regarded as one vast whole - of all humanity: here the sins, (the individual sins of mankind.)

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

You seem to be translating this:

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28, NKJV)

into this:

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to give you eternal life through destruction in hell.

or something along those lines? It doesn’t seem clear.

I should sleep though, good night to you and peace, mercy, and blessings to you as well.

 

[FineLinen]

You seem to be translating this:

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28, NKJV)

into this:

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to give you eternal life through destruction in hell.

or something along those lines? It doesn’t seem clear.

I should sleep though, good night to you and peace, mercy, and blessings to you as well.

Lily: The Royal Road is thru apollumi. Aionios life is NOT a time word, but a quality of life expressed by the Apostle John in 9 powerful words.

This IS life aionios that we may know You...

 

[ClementofA]

It’s not easy to read and I won’t say I understand it, but my impression is that those judged righteous who didn’t die in Christ would also need healing.

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:11-15, NKJV)

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
(John 5:28-29, NKJV)

It looks like in John 5:28-29 there are only two groups & two resurrections. So those judged at Rev.20:11-15 would be in the "resurrection of condemnation" who "have done evil" (John 5:29)? They would be cast into the lake of fire.

That makes me think of someone like Job, if you’re saying that in the city are the saints who died in Christ, and outside are the nations who need healing, what of Job? Even Noah, who lived through things I can’t even imagine. Even Lot, who seems so post traumatically stressed. Maybe they would be “those who have done good, [coming forth] to the resurrection of life” yet still needing healing.

Scripture indicates Old Testament saints have a "city" prepared by God for them:

Heb.11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

It seems they are to inherit the New Jerusalem, not be living outside of it.

What is outside the city are the lost in the lake of fire:

Rev.22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

So I think I’ve come to a point of irrelevance where if we are in this aion and you say heavenly Zion is just for the next aion then why try to look past that when we are still waiting for glimpses of the next?

If it’s an age, or forever, it’s still there.

I'm not sure i understand. Would you care to rephrase or elaborate further?