THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

[ClementofA]

Ongoing is indeed applied to Rev 22:14 BUT THE PROBLEM which you have failed to address is how is that ongoing action applicable TO THE SAINTS? Answer me the question of how are the saints doing his commandments when they have already done his commandments per Rev 14:12, and as a result of their obedience, live in the new Jerusalem??

Why wouldn't the saints keep doing His commandments for endless ages? Are they going to start sinning again by not keeping His commandments?

 

[Oldmantook]

Why wouldn't the saints keep doing His commandments for endless ages? Are they going to start sinning again by not keeping His commandments?

Yes there is nothing that is unclean or sinful in the new Jerusalem per Rev 21:27 but my point was the saints have already entered the city as a result of having kept the commandments. They have washed their robes; are the overcomers and of course do not sin.

 

[agapelove]

It seems you believe the scriptures are a story book and not really the Word of God? Is that your belief?

You are misunderstanding. Yes, the Bible is a story.. that I choose to accept as the TRUTH. However, I can not prove to unbelievers that what is in it is real, but by FAITH I have accepted it as reality.

Yes I read what you said. It is not biblical though you simply provided an opinion.

It is very much biblical. Every instance in the Bible that deals with punishment and justice uses the greek term "kolasis". It means correction, always in a restorative sense (It is for the benefit of the one being punished). THE ONLY TIME the Bible ever uses "timoria", which implies punitive, retributive justice and punishment is when used in the context of how humans treat each other (for the benefit of the PUNISHER).

I am telling you plainly that God always punishes from a restorative context and giving you evidence but you still prefer to believe otherwise. Please explain how annihilating wicked people is for the benefit of wicked people?

Do you remember in my first post to you where I said I am only interested in discussing the scriptures and when I asked you and yo usaid you have none? Does this not concern you? If should dear friend.

I have referred you to many scriptures but perhaps you did not feel like looking them up. Here are some:

Hos 11: God changes his mind about the judgment that he promised on Israel.
Book of Jonah: God changes his mind about the judgment on Ninevah.
Parable of the Lost Sheep: God leaves his flock in order to look for the one sheep who is lost.
Colossians 1:20 "and through him to reconcile ALL THINGS"
1 Corinthians 15:22 "so also in Christ ALL will be made alive."
2 Corinthians 5:18-19 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
Psalm 136:1 Oh, give thanks to the LORD, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever.

I choose to read this verses to mean ALL really means ALL, the WORLD means righteous AND wicked, and forever means FOREVER.

If you have no scripture to support what you believe and I can provide you scripture to support what I believe how can my argument be invalid? I believe the problem with Universalism is that it is the opposite extreme of those who believe in the false teachings of eternal burning hell (EBH). The EBH guys extremely focus on God's justice and judgements while Universalism ignores God's justice and judgements and only focuses on God's love and mercy.

I have provided my scripture and there are plenty more that can support my case of a good God. But it will always be a case of my scripture versus your scripture versus the EBH guys' scripture. We are trying to find harmonization where harmonization does not exist. I can only humble myself to say that there is no proof for any of our presumptions, that is why I base my point of view off of HOPE, not proof.

Can you see God's love in God's justice and judgements at the cross of JESUS dear agapelove? I can. How about you?

I don't want to open another can of worms.. but I guess this is where we differ in beliefs as well. I am not so sure I take on the penal substitution point of view of the cross. But rather I see Jesus' death as a profound expression of God's unconditional love for us.. which has always existed (even before the cross). WE crucified Jesus, not God. But even in this ultimate, violent, abominable act of rejection, God shows us he will still come after us with love.

 

[ClementofA]

Yes there is nothing that is unclean or sinful in the new Jerusalem per Rev 21:27 but my point was the saints have already entered the city as a result of having kept the commandments. They have washed their robes; are the overcomers and of course do not sin.

How would you address this remark, which i guess is an objection to your conclusions:

"There seems to be a break in chronology between chapter 22 v 15 and v 17. Meaning, v 15 seems to be about the world post-‘final judgment’, and then v 16 brings the revelation back to John’s day, so that v 17 is about people in John’s day and up until the end."

Revelation discussion

 

[Oldmantook]

How would you address this remark, which i guess is an objection to your conclusions:

"There seems to be a break in chronology between chapter 22 v 15 and v 17. Meaning, v 15 seems to be about the world post-‘final judgment’, and then v 16 brings the revelation back to John’s day, so that v 17 is about people in John’s day and up until the end."

Revelation discussion

Correct. V.15 is final judgment status where the sinners end up in the lake of fire. However, I don't agree with the supposition that v.17 then reverts back to John's day prophetic word, prior to the end as you wrote. I believe it occurs after that. V.17 occurs after v.15 when we know that the judgment of sinners has already occurred. Thus the sinners are already in the LOF - yet the invitation to "come" in v.17 is still being extended. Most notably, the participles in this verse are in the present tense:
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And the one hearing, let him say, “Come!” And the one thirsting let him come; the one desiring, let him take freely the water of life. (BLB)

So the whole picture we have is this. The sinners are in the LOF in v.15 but the invitation to come to partake of the waters of life is still being extended in v.17. The saints have no need to come as they have already partaken of the waters of life. Thus it is the sinners who are still in the LOF who have to come by hearing, thirsting and desiring the waters of life. This verse is another one that disproves the false notion that those in the LOF don't get a second chance.

 

[JacksBratt]

Great! So all those who wish to live in Vegas forever, gambling & whoring, He will "grant their wishes" (like a genie) & give them eternal happiness that way. So everyone gets saved! And you are now a universalist!

You really enjoy saying that... don't you? How many times have you posted it?

Ahh... OK.. I'll respond to this twisted and stretched and bent application of my statement...

I'm getting used to people needing every little item explained to them..

1/ Yes.. if you don't want to go to heaven... He will grant that wish.
2/ It is not a bundle package where you get anything else.. an top of it....
3/ It doesn't mean that He will grant you anymore wishes..
4/ This deal only has two things on the table.. Eternal paradise.. or.... not.

What made you think that it was anything more than that?

When you die and you stand in front of your creator... There will be one question:

Did you accept.. or reject Christ..

If you chose to reject Christ, reject salvation, reject eternal life... Then... so be it... here's your wish.

Not "wishes".

There is no two part multiple choice.. when in doubt pick "C".. here.

There is no.. Vegas package..


Go ahead.. Post the question again.. I know you thought it was so crafty and wise...

 

[agapelove]

You really enjoy saying that... don't you? How many times have you posted it?

Ahh... OK.. I'll respond to this twisted and stretched and bent application of my statement...

I'm getting used to people needing every little item explained to them..

1/ Yes.. if you don't want to go to heaven... He will grant that wish.
2/ It is not a bundle package where you get anything else.. an top of it....
3/ It doesn't mean that He will grant you anymore wishes..
4/ This deal only has two things on the table.. Eternal paradise.. or.... not.

What made you think that it was anything more than that?

When you die and you stand in front of your creator... There will be one question:

Did you accept.. or reject Christ..

If you chose to reject Christ, reject salvation, reject eternal life... Then... so be it... here's your wish.

Not "wishes".

There is no two part multiple choice.. when in doubt pick "C".. here.

There is no.. Vegas package..


Go ahead.. Post the question again.. I know you thought it was so crafty and wise...

You seem to have a very reduced view of the gospel.

What then of the unborn babies who never had a chance to accept Christ during this lifetime? What then of those who did not have the mental capacity to understand the gospel? What then of citizens in countries who do not allow religious freedom? What then of the many people who the gospel has been kept a secret? The list goes on.

I'm sure you have heard these questions millions of times... would you agree that God is allowed to show mercy on them and judge them on a different basis? Or do you believe that God has purposely hidden the message of the gospel from a large percentage of the population so that he can show how "just" He is?

 

[FineLinen]

Good ole Bratt: The limited grasp you have of Abba is sad.

I find it hard to envision the One who feeds 10's of thousands with miracle fish & bread refusing to allow one leftover scrape to be lost (apollumi), & yet, the broken children of despair He loses most?

All means all, some means some

 

[Lazarus Short]

You really enjoy saying that... don't you? How many times have you posted it?

Ahh... OK.. I'll respond to this twisted and stretched and bent application of my statement...

I'm getting used to people needing every little item explained to them..

1/ Yes.. if you don't want to go to heaven... He will grant that wish.
2/ It is not a bundle package where you get anything else.. an top of it....
3/ It doesn't mean that He will grant you anymore wishes..
4/ This deal only has two things on the table.. Eternal paradise.. or.... not.

What made you think that it was anything more than that?

When you die and you stand in front of your creator... There will be one question:

Did you accept.. or reject Christ..

If you chose to reject Christ, reject salvation, reject eternal life... Then... so be it... here's your wish.

Not "wishes".

There is no two part multiple choice.. when in doubt pick "C".. here.

There is no.. Vegas package..


Go ahead.. Post the question again.. I know you thought it was so crafty and wise...

You seem not to sense or appreciate gentle sarcasm. It must have fallen in a sarchasm before it reached you.

 

[ClementofA]

You seem not to sense or appreciate gentle sarcasm. It must have fallen in a sarchasm before it reached you.

I learned a new word today. Thanks, Laz!

"Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it. 9. Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late"

Sarchasm: the gulf between the author of sarcastic wit, and the person who doesn't get it.

 

[ClementofA]

You really enjoy saying that... don't you? How many times have you posted it?

Ahh... OK.. I'll respond to this twisted and stretched and bent application of my statement...

I'm getting used to people needing every little item explained to them..

1/ Yes.. if you don't want to go to heaven... He will grant that wish.
2/ It is not a bundle package where you get anything else.. an top of it....
3/ It doesn't mean that He will grant you anymore wishes..
4/ This deal only has two things on the table.. Eternal paradise.. or.... not.

What made you think that it was anything more than that?

When you die and you stand in front of your creator... There will be one question:

Did you accept.. or reject Christ..

If you chose to reject Christ, reject salvation, reject eternal life... Then... so be it... here's your wish.

Not "wishes".

There is no two part multiple choice.. when in doubt pick "C".. here.

There is no.. Vegas package..


Go ahead.. Post the question again.. I know you thought it was so crafty and wise...

Stay safe, have a great weekend. Love Omnipotent loves you beyond what you can even imagine!

 

[agapelove]

I learned a new word today. Thanks, Laz!

"Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it. 9. Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late"

Sarchasm: the gulf between the author of sarcastic wit, and the person who doesn't get it.

I learned a new meme today! I like this much better than the original.

 

[ClementofA]

I do not know if Hitler directly killed anyone, but few people doubt but what he was responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent people.

Hitler had the power, opportunity & cooperation from others to murder millions. So he is largely responsible for it. Without those 3 things he may have still had the same desire to kill millions yet been unable to even get a single person murdered. So why should he be considered any worse than any other murderer or person with merely murder in their hearts.

And since hating someone makes us a murderer, according to Scripture, and we have all committed that sin, we are all murderers.

Many who have never actually murdered anyone themselves may wish they could murder many more than Hitler's millions (he was largely responsible for), but don't have the ability Hitler did to do so. In that sense they could be considered worse than Hitler.

If there's even such a thing as worse sinners. With us all being sinners, we are all in the same predicament needing a Savior. Any kind of sinner can obtain heaven. But even the person who has sinned the least won't get their without salvation.

Are we are guilty of murder & therefore murderers? The Bible says:

Js. 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[FineLinen]

Good old Lover has created a thread which has exceeded her intent. The Maginot Line of the Restitution of all things is continuing to stand as a bulwark in response. Agape Love has joined the resistance movement.

Welcome Agape, your posts are a delight!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Good old Lover has created a thread which has exceeded her intent. The Maginot Line of the Restitution of all things is continuing to stand as a bulwark in response. Agape Love has joined the resistance movement. Welcome Agape, your posts are a delight!

Thank you for your support dear friend. Those who believe and follow God's Word according to the scriptures have always only been a remnant as many are called but few are chosen because wide is the gate that leads to to destruction and many go in there at and narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be that find it. Time to stop drinking from the gambling lady of second chances dear Fine. There is only life in the living waters of the Word of God dear friend.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Lover: It is very fortunate we arrived on this link of yours just in the nick of time for you to set us straight (lol) with your extensive gobs of goggledegook.

We stand before Him stark naked, in dire need of the Touch of all touches. Nothing to offer Him, absolutely notin! It is in this fallen condition He finds us, broken & bruised requiring at-one-ment. Yes, He is the Master of broken mankind, not simply wanting us Home, but determined it shall be! Yup, He "willeth (thelo)" all mankind to be saved!

Your dogma (#7) maintains most of the lost fallen wrecks will be lost.

The restitution of the ta pavnte declares otherwise!

No more let sin & sorrow grow, nor thorns infest the ground, He comes to make His blessings flow "far as the curse is found.."

The radical all of creation shall be delivered from the tyranny of change & decay into His glorious Plan of at-one-ment.

Dear Fine, thanks for your post. You have posted it many times already repeating the same things over and over. Why I have no idear. What it has to do with what you are quoting from know one knows. If you could respond to what you are quoting from it would be helpful to our conversation. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. These are the things that defile a man. Unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom that he has prepared for those that follow and love him.

Who can know the mind of God? As the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways from your ways and so are my thoughts from your thoughts. But the Spirit of truth is given only to those that are poor. He is the teacher of all the poor in spirit, he knows them all by name because he reads the intent of the heart that is sick.

Come let us reason together; Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: If any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Call upon me while I am near, tomorrow may be too late and why will you die when by my stripes you may be healed. With an everlasting love have I loved you and with loving kindness have I drawn you therefore why will you turn from me? It is hard to kick against the pricks dear Fine.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So, let me get this straight. Early Church largely accepts the Hebraic view, being that God is divine fire and saves whomever He will from death and hell by fire.

The early Church was not the one that departed from Gods Word.

Then Augustine comes along, fatherless fellow, ambitious, with a mighty intellect, Roman law, Latin language, pagan dualist philosophy background, and pushes damnation theory into top spot in Church eschatology.

Pope then receives a memo from theologians unknown to the effect 'Sorry Boss, but that means we're all damned, cause NOBODY dies without sin but Jesus.' So the solution is postulated, hmmmm...Purgatory, the cleansing ale for believers 'on the right path'. Phew, that was close. And it worked, seeing as the Lake of Fire was already there, in scripture. Well how about that?

Ok, fast forward a few hundred years, this Damnation and Purgatory deal's causing issues, not least in the form spiritual terrorism, Papal indulgences, endemic corruption, Rome again become the devil's playground. Oh Rome, wilt thou ever?

So God raises up prophets, notably Savonarola the Florentine, who shook it up, but still they refused to repent. Then Luther, remembered for his inspired refocus on 'sola fides', justification by faith alone, relying primarily on Hab 2:4, raged against the machine.

'Well done faithful servant' I can envisage God saying, 'now close the gate.' But despite his vaunted contempt with the excesses of Rome, their self-serving and idolatrous system based on 'work-purgatory-heaven' credits, Luther failed to do so, he failed to LAY THE AX TO THE ROOT of the problem. So what did the protestant reformers do? They untethered heaven from works, dispensed entirely with purgatory, and retained eternal damnation (perhaps even enlarged it). So the legacy of Luther is the DOUBLING DOWN on the problem of how a loving God can doom ppl. Las Vegas Love, here we come! So God in His infinite wisdom returns the sceptre to the Jews. Hilarious but true. And 'modernity' ensues, in the form of usurocracy. And still the protestants don't see it, and still they clamour over the requisite degree of commitment for salvation (as though the Doctor comes for the healthy!), paying their tithes for afterlife fire insurance while scorning indulgences and works-based justification. Friend, your guys missed the boat, but it's not too late to see the error of your ways. And that's the good news. I know you'll pay no attention to this post, but there it is. Protestantism may claim to be big on fides, but certainly there's 'room for improvement' on ratio.

Luther did not failed dear friend. His work and the work of others against the pagan teachings and man made traditions of the Roman Church called the people back to the Word of God and the giving the bible to the people was only the begining of people being called back to the pure Word of God that the early Church enjoyed.

To this very day it is an ongoing work of reformation. I believe God's people are in every Church *ROMANS 10:17 living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them in His Word and in times of ignorance God winks at *ACTS 17:30-31 but the hour is coming and know is that the true worshippers must worship God in Spirit and in truth. God is calling his people out of these false teachings where ever they may be back to the pure Word of God *REVELATION 18:1-5. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 4:23-24.

It is time for us all to leave BABYLON that great mother of harlots dear friend and return back to the pure Word of God.

 

[FineLinen]

Thank you for your support dear friend.

Lover: It is my extreme delight. This is becoming one of my favorite links full of lovely gobs of misplaced dogma.

How does # 7 of your organization deal with ta pavnte?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Lover: It is my extreme delight. This is becoming one of my favorite links full of lovely gobs of misplaced dogma. How does # 7 of your organization deal with ta pavnte?

Indeed dear friend, you have shared much in the way of gobs of misplaced dogma and that is what this thread is here to help with. I thank God and I am glad it has been a blessing to you. As it is indeed true that the winds of the Spirit of the Word blows away the smoke of confusion.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord wrote: No need to guess here and post walls of second hand information from the teachings of men. DESTRUCTION means DESTRUCTION. But first let's look at the context again and define the topics of discussion.

1 CORINTHIANS 3:4-19
[4], For while one said, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are you not carnal?
[5], Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom you believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
[6], I HAVE PLANTED, APOLLOS WATERED; BUT GOD GAVE THE INCREASE.
[7], SO THEN NEITHER IS HE THAT PLANTS ANY THING, NEITHER HE THAT WATERS; BUT GOD THAT GIVES THE INCREASE.
[8], NOW HE THAT PLANTS AND HE THAT WATERS ARE ONE: AND EVERY MAN SHALL RECEIVE HIS OWN REWARD ACCORDING TO HIS OWN LABOR.
[9], FOR WE ARE LABORERS TOGETHER WITH GOD: YOU ARE GOD'S HUSBANDRY, YOU ARE GOD'S BUILDING.
[10], ACCORDING TO THE GRACE OF GOD WHICH IS GIVEN TO ME, AS A WISE MASTER BUILDER, I HAVE LAID THE FOUNDATION, AND ANOTHER BUILDS THEREON. BUT LET EVERY MAN TAKE HEED HOW HE BUILDS THEREUPON.
[11], FOR OTHER FOUNDATION CAN NO MAN LAY THAN THAT IS LAID, WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST.
[12], NOW IF ANY MAN BUILD ON THIS FOUNDATION GOLD, SILVER, PRECIOUS STONES, WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE;
[13], EVERY MAN'S WORK SHALL BE MADE MANIFEST: FOR THE DAY SHALL DECLARE IT, BECAUSE IT SHALL BE REVEALED BY FIRE; AND THE FIRE SHALL TRY EVERY MAN'S WORK OF WHAT SORT IT IS.
[14], IF ANY MAN'S WORK ABIDE WHICH HE HAS BUILT THEREUPON, HE SHALL RECEIVE A REWARD.
[15], IF ANY MAN'S WORK SHALL BE BURNED, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE.

Ok lets summarise the context and the topic of conversation from 1 CORINTHIANS 3:4-15

1. Paul is showing that those who follow people are carnal and state that the work of spreading the Gospel of Gods’ kingdom takes many people working together with God’s Spirit who gives the increase (saved souls) v4-7

2. Every man receives his own reward for his own labours in speading the Gospel and building up God’s kingdom v8-9

3. PAUL as a wise master builder has laid the foundation of the Gospel which is CHRIST and we should all be careful how we build upon the foundation of Christ representing what we teach others in relation to the Gospel as no other foundation can be laid but the gospel of JESUS Christ and his death for our sins. v10-11

4. Then Paul states v12-14 that if any man build on the foundation of Christ in spreading the gospel (v4-11) some will do better then others building on Christ as the true foundation as Gold, Silver, Precious stones, Wood Hay, Stubble. Not literally but as a metaphor of the work of spreading the Gospel of our Lord JESUS Christ and building on the knowledge of Christ and him crucidied. As can be shown in the CONTEXT the subject matter is that of the work of spreading the Gospel commission that JESUS has given to all Christians and building the church to a closer walk with God.

5. Now we have provided CONTEXT let’s look at the scripture…

[15], IF ANY MAN'S WORK SHALL BE BURNED, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE.

So considering the context already shown the work here that is being spoken of is the work of “BELIEVERS” spreading the gospel who are building on the foundation of Christ. Everyones work of spreading the gospel commission will be tested with fire some will bear fruit and others will suffer loss (were not successful in bringing people to Christ and building up the Church). Though these people may not have had much success in building up the Church because they built on the FOUNDATION OF CHRIST v11 they will be saved!

As proven above there is no one single scripture in 1 CORINTHIANS 3 that is even talking and has application to the lost or the wicked. The context is to speading the gospel and the work of spreading the gospel and it is written to “BELIEVERS” not “UNBELIEVERS” so your interpretation here is nonsense.

Now notice v16-17

[16], KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, AND THAT THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU?[17], IF ANY MAN DEFILE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE.

Notice now we are looking at separate subject matter. It is no more about the work of God and laying the foundation of Christ and every mans work of spreading the Gospel. Paul is now talking about “BELIEVERS” as being the “TEMPLE” or “DWELLING PLACE OF GOD” and that God lives in his people and if we “DEFILE” ourselves (just like unbelievers defile themselves) God will “DESTROY” as we are God’s DWELLING PLACE are meant to be “HOLY” (free from practicing sin). To defile in context to HOLY means to SIN (knowingly break God’s commandments)

[18], LET NO MAN DECEIVE HIMSELF. IF ANY MAN AMONG YOU SEEMS TO BE WISE IN THIS WORLD, LET HIM BECOME A FOOL, THAT HE MAY BE WISE.

[19], For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He takes the wise in their own craftiness.

So BOOM... the context shown here proves your interpretation of the scriptures in error.

……………

Now let’s simply post the meaning of “DESTRUCTION” from the Greek to finish this up before providing a closing conclusion…

φθερεῖ] placed immediately after φθείρει at the head of the apodosis, to express with emphasis the adequacy of the recompense. See Kühner, II. p. 626. What φθερεῖ denotes is the temporal destruction, the punishment of death which God will bring upon the destroyer of His temple, as in the LXX. φθείρω is often used of God as inflicting such destruction. Comp Genesis 6:13; Micah 2:10; 1 Kings 2:27, al[553]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5351: φθείρω

φθείρω; future φθερῶ; 1 aorist ἐφθειρα; passive, present φθείρομαι; 2 aorist ἐφθάρην; 2 future φθαρήσομαι; (akin to German verderben); the Sept. for שִׁחֵת; (from Homer down); to corrupt, to destroy: properly, τόν ναόν τοῦ Θεοῦ (in the opinion of the Jews the temple was corrupted, or 'destroyed', when anyone defiled or in the slightest degree damaged anything in it, or if its guardians neglected their duties; cf. Deyling, Observations, sacrae, vol. ii, p. 505ff), dropping the figure, to lead away a Christian church from that state of knowledge and holiness in which it ought to abide, 1 Corinthians 3:17a; τινα, to punish with death, 1 Corinthians 3:17{b}; equivalent to bring to want or beggary (cf. our ruin (A. V. corrupt)), 2 Corinthians 7:2; passive, to be destroyed, to perish: ἐν τίνι, by a thing, Jude 1:10; ἐν with a dative denoting the condition, ἐν τῇ φθορά αὐτῶν, 2 Peter 2:12 L T Tr WH. in an ethical sense, to corrupt, deprave: φθείρουσιν ἔθη χρηστά ὁμιλίαι κακαί (a saying of Menander (see ἦθος, 2), which seems to have passed into a proverb (see Wetstein at the passage; Gataker, Advers. misc. l. i. c. 1, p. 174f)), 1 Corinthians 15:33; the character of the inhabitants of the earth, Revelation 19:2; passive, φθείρομαι ἀπό τίνος, to be so corrupted as to fall away from a thing (see ἀπό, I. 3 d.), 2 Corinthians 11:3; φθειρόμενον κατά τάς ἐπιθυμίας (R. V. waxeth corrupt etc.), Ephesians 4:22. (Compare: διαφθείρω, καταφθείρω.)

To be DESTROYED means to perish and punish with death!

...........

CONCLUSION: The subject matter and context of 1 CORINTHIANS 3:4-15 is
the work of “BELIEVERS” spreading the gospel who are building on the foundation of Christ. Everyones work of spreading the gospel commission will be tested with fire some will bear fruit and others will suffer loss (were not successful in bringing people to Christ and building up the Church). Though these people may not have had much success in building up the Church because they built on the FOUNDATION OF CHRIST v11 they will be saved! The scripture in v15 is therefore talking about "BELIEVERS" whose "FOUNDATION" is Christ who are saved. There is no mention here about the wicked who do not believe and live in unrepentant sin so your interpretation here is proven to be nonsense.

DESTRUCTION in the GREEK here means punishment by DEATH to be DESTROYED and PERISH!.

Sorry dear friend. It seems like God's Word disagrees with you.

Hope this is helpful.

Your response...

Such as you do in your post i am replying to & many other of your posts.
Perhaps you should take your own advice. And post Scripture only without adding any of your comments, opinions & "second hand information from the teachings of men."

Do as i say, not as i do. Double standard.

There is no double standard dear friend. You mainly provide copy and pastes of universalist studies from other websites in your replies much which is not relevant to the posts you are quoting from. I mainly provide scriptures from my own prayerful time in God's Word that directly reference what you are posting. Can you see the difference? Even here in your post you only part quote me and do not address the original post shared with you. Why? Well because I believe that the context I provided you earlier from 1 CORINTHIANS 3:4-19 shows what you posted earlier is in error and you do not wish anyone to see this but it is there for all to see. So instead of taking this as a blessing to you I guess you decided to sadly ignore this. Well you are free to believe as you wish. It was only provided in love and as a help to you. I provided the full post above for you to go back and review if your interested to have another look.

Nothing there supports the annihilationist opinion that the Greek word must mean endless annihilation.
OTOH where is the justice in eternal annihilation for the sins of a few years or decades? Especially when Christ has died for such & His blood shed for those sins. Does the compassion of Love Omnipotent have an expiry date like a carton of milk? Is His hand shortened that it is powerless to save?

It seems absurd that Love Omnipotent the Good, who doeth Good, is Merciful, & a Savior, even the Savior of all mankind, creation & the cosmos, for Whom nothing is impossible, Who created a universe that spans a distance of billions of light years, is a sadist plus being an eternal Hitler-like gas chamber guy to all beings who haven't met His expiry date, & has an extremely soon coming expiry date on His love (not much longer than the expiry date on a carton of milk), & is impotent to save, or just too stupid in how He created those beings who are created to succeed in His will that all of them be saved.

“How ironic that those who believe God will not violate the ‘free ’will of man have no problem believing He will violate His own free will—that all men should be saved!” - David Nuckols

“He does not save men by arbitrary force. He saves by their wills, through moral influence. God has resources in his universe, the all conquering agencies of love, to make the unwilling soul willing! He has light enough to make the blind see, and love enough to melt the hardened heart.” -Quillen Hamilton Shinn

"It's tempting for me to believe that God is the grand master playing chess and we are the 5 year old rookie. Theoretically we are "free" to win the chess game, it is possible. No not really in the libertarian sense - it is unlikely to the point of virtual zero. in other words, God will always get His way, despite our best efforts not to be saved."

According to the Bible mercy will triumph over judgement.

Love will conquer all.

As someone said:

"annihilating someone DOES NOT RESPECT THEIR FREE WILL!"

"But there are those who find this an intolerable state of affairs, sometimes because of an earnest if misguided devotion to what they believe Scripture or tradition demands, sometimes because the idea of the eternal torment [or annihilation] of the derelict appeals to some unpleasantly obvious emotional pathologies on their parts."

Saint Origen | David Bentley Hart

The above are your words alone and are not God's Words. Then we have God's Word that says that the wicked are DESTROYED at the second coming. I have already provided the scriptures on what happens to the wicked at the second coming. They are destroyed and do not enter God's KINGDOM. 2 THESSALONIANS 1:6-10; HEBREWS 10:26-39; MATTHEW 25:31-41; REVELATION 21:7-8; REVELATION 20:14-15; EZEKIEL 18:4; MATTHEW 7:21-23

Now your turn, please show me the scriptures that say THE WICKED ARE NOT DESTROYED AND ENTER INTO GOD'S KINGDOM WHO ARE STILL WICKED AFTER THE SECOND COMING? If you have no scripture to support your view does this not worry you that your presenting a different gospel to the one JESUS shared? If not why not?

You either have scripture for your position or you do not. I am guessing from your response that you do not. Look forward to your response this time. I think you have run out of excuses now. Geeesh, if you have no scripture be honest alrady and just say so.

The Greek meaning of DESTROYED was also shared with you here yet you still deny it and post links to the teachings of men that deny the very Words of God.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5351: φθείρω

φθείρω; future φθερῶ; 1 aorist ἐφθειρα; passive, present φθείρομαι; 2 aorist ἐφθάρην; 2 future φθαρήσομαι; (akin to German verderben); the Sept. for שִׁחֵת; (from Homer down); to corrupt, to destroy: properly, τόν ναόν τοῦ Θεοῦ (in the opinion of the Jews the temple was corrupted, or 'destroyed', when anyone defiled or in the slightest degree damaged anything in it, or if its guardians neglected their duties; cf. Deyling, Observations, sacrae, vol. ii, p. 505ff), dropping the figure, to lead away a Christian church from that state of knowledge and holiness in which it ought to abide, 1 Corinthians 3:17a; τινα, to punish with death, 1 Corinthians 3:17{b}; equivalent to bring to want or beggary (cf. our ruin (A. V. corrupt)), 2 Corinthians 7:2; passive, to be destroyed, to perish: ἐν τίνι, by a thing, Jude 1:10; ἐν with a dative denoting the condition, ἐν τῇ φθορά αὐτῶν, 2 Peter 2:12 L T Tr WH. in an ethical sense, to corrupt, deprave: φθείρουσιν ἔθη χρηστά ὁμιλίαι κακαί (a saying of Menander (see ἦθος, 2), which seems to have passed into a proverb (see Wetstein at the passage; Gataker, Advers. misc. l. i. c. 1, p. 174f)), 1 Corinthians 15:33; the character of the inhabitants of the earth, Revelation 19:2; passive, φθείρομαι ἀπό τίνος, to be so corrupted as to fall away from a thing (see ἀπό, I. 3 d.), 2 Corinthians 11:3; φθειρόμενον κατά τάς ἐπιθυμίας (R. V. waxeth corrupt etc.), Ephesians 4:22. (Compare: διαφθείρω, καταφθείρω.)

Now dear friend, address the detail of my posts and please stop posting the links to other people. I do not know how to get any clearer then the GREEK meaning of DESTROYED as highlighted above meaning PUNISH WITH DEATH TO BE DESTROYED AND PERISH do you? It seems your smoke screen of the words of men have just been blown away dear friend. It is up to you to choose what you want to believe however.

I pray that you may you recieve Gods Word and be blessed. Ignoring it however will not make it dissappear it will become our judge come judgement day *JOHN 12:47-48.