THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

LoveGodsWord · Apr 24, 2020

Oldmantook said:
My point was that in Heb 10:26 since they persisted in sinning, there remains no more sacrifice for sin but of fearful judgment. In Heb 6:6, they are still sinning by crucifying and shaming Christ, thus it is impossible to renew them to repentance while they are still sinning. Presumably if they genuinely repented and ceased sinning, then God can forgive, but the text does not address that possibility. I think we agree that unrepentant sinners continuing in sin end up in the LOF; where we disagree is whether or not they end up there permanently. Accordingly, you claim that people such as these have "no more second chances." If so, then we have a problem because you neglected to address verses that I cited i.e, Rom 14:11; Phil 2:10 which state that every knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord - so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven, and on earth and under the earth. Who is under the earth? Is this referring to the grave; to Hades? There are only two types of people in the grave/Hades - saved and unsaved. Yet these verses declare the EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue confess which in totality includes not only the saved, but the unsaved as well. Since our doctrine requires that all the scriptures must support it, how do these scripture conform with your belief that no one gets a second chance? If you protest and claim that these verses do not state that salvation is involved I suppose you would be correct as salvation is not specifically mentioned, however if that is the case, what do these scriptures mean then? 1 Corinthians 12:3 states "Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit."

Indeed dear friend. This was my point as well. The main point however, that you did not pick up on though is that the judgements of God are received by all those who continue in known unrepentant sin at the second coming (no more second chances). Let's look at the scripture a little more closely. Your still missing the point of why I was sharing this verse and how and why it is relevant and connects to HEBREWS 6:4-8 and REVELATION 22:12

HEBREWS 10:26-39 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY (G4442 πῦρ) INDIGNATION (G2205 ζῆλος) WHICH SHALL DEVOUR (G2068 ἐσθίω) THE ADVERSARIES (G5227 ὑπεναντίος)

The Greek word for Devour (G2068) ἐσθίω; esthiō in combination with fiery (G4442 πῦρ) indignation (G2205 ζῆλος) means God's fire wrath will literally devour consume or eat alive the adversaries of God who are defined in v26 as all those who sin willfully or continue in known unrepentant sin when they have been given a knowledge of the truth but reject it in order to practice sin and reject God's ways in order to follow their own ways. This was one of the main points I was hoping for you to pick up on in sharing this scripture as it links in to HEBREWS 6:4-8.

Main points establsihed here...

1. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin no longer receive God's forgiveness and are not in a saved state with God (we are agreed).

2. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin who reject God's Word (Unbelievers) and live in known unrepentant sin await a fearful looking forward to of the judgement of God receive God's fiery indignation and wrath which will eat them alive or devour and consume them.

3. V30-31 continues..Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

We are not talking about a picnic in the park here. God is angry and taking vengence on all those who did not believe and obey the gospel of our Lord JESUS Christ. Now lets compare this same topic and thoughs from HEBREWS 10:26-27 to 2 THESSALONIANS 1:6-10 and look at the similarities which are the same and the timing of these judgements being at the second coming...

2 THESSALONIANS 1:6-10 [6], SEEING IT IS A RIGHTEOUS THING WITH GOD TO RECOMPENSE TRIBULATION TO THEM THAT TROUBLE YOU; [7], AND TO YOU WHO ARE TROUBLED REST WITH US, WHEN THE LORD JESUS SHALL BE REVEALED FROM HEAVEN WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS, [8], IN FLAMING FIRE TAKING VENGEANCE ON THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD, AND THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST: [9], WHO SHALL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING (G166 αἰώνιος) DESTRUCTION (G3639 ὄλεθρος) FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, AND FROM THE GLORY OF HIS POWER; [10], WHEN HE SHALL COME TO BE GLORIFIED IN HIS SAINTS, AND TO BE ADMIRED IN ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE BECAUSE OUR TESTIMONY AMONG YOU WAS BELIEVED IN THAT DAY.

Note the Greek words used for everlasting destruction used for Gods judgements and vengence given to the wicked; everlasting (G166 αἰώνιος) which means eternal for all time linked with destruction (G3639 ὄλεθρος) primary word means to destroy; a prolonged form; ruin, that is, death, punishment: - destruction.

THERE ARE NO MORE SECOND CHANCES AT THE SECOND COMING!

Now note how well 2 THESSALONIANS 1:6-10 links to HEBREWS 10:26-31?

1. Topic of discussion is those who do not believe God's Word who practice sin (Unbelievers)
2. Topic of discussion is to the vengence of God and the judgements of God with the same punishment
3. Both are talking either everlasting destruction or being eaten up and devoured or consumed
4. Timing that these judgement are given is the 2nd coming.
5. No second chances dear friend.

HEBREWS 6:4-8 links right in here but it is referring to those who were once christians but fall away in to a life on known unrepentant sin receiveing the same punishment as the above scriptures show v8....whose end is to be burned.

All of the above tie in very nicely with....

REVELATION 22:11-12 which shows that God's judgement is completed and his proclaimation is made "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be".

As can be seen here REVELATION 22:12 links directly to HEBREWS 10:26-31 and 1 THESSALONIANS 1:6-10 proving that the judgments of God are given to the wicked and the blessings of God to the righteous at the second coming. Judgement is to fiery indignation and eternal DESTRUCTION.

WARNING! As shown from the scriptures alone dear friend THERE ARE NO MORE SECOND CHANCES AT THE SECOND COMING!

Oldmantook said:
Did you not understand what I wrote? The key word is FIND - more accurately translated by the present tense participle as FINDING. Jesus said few are finding it (narrow way). He did not say few will ever find it in the future as the future tense is not used here. Jesus was just stating the fact that few (are presently) finding the narrow way. You cannot use this verse as proof text to claim that all will never find the narrow way in the future simply because the future is not utilized in this verse. That would be like saying "I am not rich" which would be an accurate statement, however that present tense statement does not preclude the possibility that in the future - I will be rich.

I did understand what you said the first time. I think you missed my point again. Few that are finding it is applicable today was only one of the points I was sharing with you earlier as all these things are written for our admonition today. As it was true in the days of JESUS it is true today. Few there are that are finding the narrow way. The majority are going in at the straight gate the broard way that leads to "DESTRUCTION (ἀπώλεια perishing; destruction). One way (narrow the few) leads to life and the broard way leads to death. This ties in with what I was sharing above with HEBREWS 10:26-31; 2 THESSALONIANS 1:6-10, HEBREWS 6:4-8 and REVELATION 22:12 that show God's judgements are given to the wicked at the 2nd coming.

Oldmantook said:
Paul's audience is indeed believers. So I'll cut to the chase here as my answer here will address all of your objections based on Colossians 1 so I don't have to go into great length and answer your other objections to my interpretation of this passage.

Paul summarizes his purpose in writing to the Colossian believers in 1:9:

For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

So the pertinent question to ask is what is God's will that Paul wants us to understand? Well we don't have to look far do we as Paul wrote it in 1:20 - "and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross."

Paul is teaching spiritual truths in Colossians 1 - part of which includes v.20 which is an unconditional statement that doesn't happen to fit with your doctrine. So you have the choice to either ignore it or wrestle with it. I have the same choice to make when I encounter scriptures that don't happen to fit with my paradigm.

Well this is quite disappointing OMT as I thought you would have spent some time considering and reading my last post on COLOSSIANS 1:18-20 which uses the exegetical method to let the scriptures interpret themselves by applying context. The post you ignored shows very clearly that you have misintepreted COLOSSIANS 1:18-20 as the application was to THE BLOOD OF HIS CROSS paying the penalty for all sin with the reconciling being to God and in the BLOOD of JESUS paying the penalty for all sin (the reconcilling). JESUS (by HIM) making peace through the BLOOD of His Cross for all sin and for all sinners the BLOOD of JESUS is all sufficient. It does not say all men will accept or receive Gods' free gift of GRACE because Gods GRACE we are told in EPHESIANS 2:8 is THROUGH FAITH. Becoming an believer and follower of JESUS. Your reading though the eyes of "universalism" and reading into the scripture what they do not teach. The summary of the looking at the whole chapter context sis provided here earlier is prrovided here taken directly from the scriptures. JESUS makes peace through the BLOOD OF HIS CROSS this is the avenue and why the GOSPEL of salvation for all mankind can be freely offered! The BLOOD of JESUS who has paid the penalty of mans sin with his own life, "BY HIM" v20 meaning he can now reconcile ALL THINGS in heaven and in earth through His BLOOD! The good new of the Gospel of JESUS Christ is now freely given to all mankind. Now notice dear friend it does not say anywhere in these scriptures that all UNBELIEVERS will accept the gift of God's dear son. Nowhere do these scriptures say this anywhere! Your reading into the scriptures what they do not say or teach. In fact it is clearly written that those who reject God's WORD and continue in known unrepentant sin reject the gift of God's dear son and count the BLOOD OF THE COVENANT an unholy thing and do dispite to the Spirit of Grace. Their end as shown above is a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour (destroy; eat up; consume) the adversaries *HEBREWS 10:26-31. Context matters dear friend and you have provided none.

Hope this helps.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 24, 2020

Oldmantook said:
Indeed; the problem with eternal conscious torment and annihilation is that the Gospel which is the Good News is actually the "bad news" as the vast majority of humankind is never saved. Despite God being omniscient and omnipotent he fails to save all despite his stated will.

I do not see it this way at all. All I see is God's love. Why? God is a God of love and mercy but he is also a God of justice and judgement (plenty of scripture here just let me know) and this is the reason why he sent JESUS to die on the cross for our sins and is where we see God's great love for us both personally and collectively. If God was not a God of judgement and Justice JESUS would not have had to come to pay man's penalty for sin so that we can receive Gods' Gift of eternal life and reconciliation. I see God's love in all of this, even in his justice don't you? If there was no justice and judgement for sin JESUS would not have had to die for us. Yet you do not seem to see this. The wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. God is a God of love and mercy to all those who hear and follow him and a God of justice and judgement to those who do not. There is no second chances at the second coming dear friend only justice and judgement. While those who are written in the lambs book of life have already received Love and Mercy.

Can you see God's love here in God's justice dear OMT?

FineLinen · Apr 24, 2020

The Lord Jesus Christ, the Archegos & Prodromos, has a stacked deck. He not only undoes the fall of Adam, He does it with flair!

In Hebr. 9.14 His blood is posus mallon. In Rom. 11.24 the wild & natural olive branches are in the same posus mallon dimension.

Yes, and this majestic Prince-Leader of Reconciliation not only undoes the despair of Adam, He does it posus mallon!

Mallon =

More.

To a greater degree by far.

Jesus Christ IS the Mallon Saviour of the all!

FineLinen · Apr 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
I do not see it this way at all. All I see is God's love.

This is exciting information.

Does the love of God ever fail in any circumstance?

FineLinen · Apr 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Which is the context and context matters. Can you see your errors here dear Fine?

Yup!

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Pay attention to....

Us & them.

Us all.

The elect predestined saints.

The firstborn called according to His purpose.

The whole creation.

Scott Husted · Apr 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Scott how are you and nice to meet you and welcome. Interesting scripture Revaltion 14 though a little off topic to this OP. I will spend a bit of time here on it though if it may be of help. Though this is shared from another forum and not mine with some of mine added..

1. There are scriptures in the bible to suggest the wicked will finally be destroyed.
2. There are many instances in the bible which uses expressions such as "for ever" but was not referring to how we would measure the length of forever.

Now to point #1 here are a few scriptures.

Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Burning forever or eternal torment cannot be compromised with being destroyed, perishing, being consumed or being burnt up. It is either one or the other. The reality is that after the wicked is thrown into the lake of fire, God will at some time create a New Heaven and a New Earth which cannot be done if this scene of destruction is still taking place. All things will become new and no remnants on the past shall remain which includes the lake of fire and destruction of the wicked.

To point #2.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

(Sodom and Gomorrah are not still burning)

1Ch 28:4 Howbeit the LORD God of Israel chose me before all the house of my father to be king over Israel for ever: for he hath chosen Judah to be the ruler; and of the house of Judah, the house of my father; and among the sons of my father he liked me to make me king over all Israel:

(David is no longer King over Israel)

There are more that I can't remember now but you get the idea. Words such as forever, is dependant on the subject for its length. Eternal, everlasting and forever when God is the subject really does mean forever, because God is eternal in the truest sense. Forever, in reference to a man is limited to the lifespan on the man. Husbands and wives take vows to love each other forever, but that is limited to their life. Same thing applies to the wicked in the lake of fire, they would experience the lake of fire forever, but as long as they are alive, until they are finally consumed, destroyed, perished. The wages of sin is death not eternal torment. To die means to perish. The reward of the saved, is eternal life. The reward of the wicked cannot be eternal life (in torment) as well.

..........

Also, we can directly compare Revelation 14:9-11 with ISAIAH 34:9-10. Take a read they are very similar and some people think ISAIAH is in reference to REVELATION here. The point here is the everlasting is in reference to being all burn't up (nothing more to burn).

There are obvious similarities between the two sets of scriptures. Brimstone is mentioned in both (Isa. 34:9 and Rev. 14:10). Smoke that goes up forever is also mentioned (Isa. 34:10 and Rev. 14:11). But, there are also differences. The torment of persons with fire and brimstone is only in Revelation.

Furthermore, this torment occurs in "in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb," which also is also only in Revelation. Fire is mention in Rev. 14:11, but not Isaiah 33:9-10. Also, Isaiah says "night and day," where Revelation says, "day and night." Isaiah is about judgment on Edom so it is not still bunring today it is all burned up. Revelation 14:9-11 I believe is in reference to the future where the wicked will be totally destroyed and not exist, just like Edom. John the apostle is using Old Testament illustrations to convey the concept that God's work of judgment is permanent, as is the case of Edom. In the presence of ther lamb and the Holy Angels is in reference to the 2nd coming when God's judgement are poured out on the wicked. Hope this is helpful.

God bless

Hi! and thanks ...

I used the word seems to draw out where you see from ... and thank you for it!

I kinda thought annihilation, or burn forever is the flip side of the coin to universalism? (you gotta love it though ... Adam names everything ...)

You may think this has no bearing on the case, but to me it does ... why do you think God couldn't hold things together before he created man? Is he more like a man as some propose? One who does not know the consequence of his actions?

Did God not know by creating the covering cherub in the fashion that he did would lead to the demise of his creation?

Of Jesus I believe it says that there wasn't anything about him that made you desire him ...

This reminds me of a veiled (Lot) ones choice ... or was it more like Jesus who chose a devil?

LoveGodsWord · Apr 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Which is the context and context matters. Can you see your errors here dear Fine?

Your response...

FineLinen said:
Yup!

Great dear friend. Praise God.

FineLinen said:
Pay attention to.... Us & them. Us all. The elect predestined saints. The firstborn called according to His purpose.

Indeed, context is to "BELEIVERS" not "UNBELIEVERS"

thanks for sharing.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 24, 2020

Scott Husted said:
Hi! and thanks ...

I used the word seems to draw out where you see from ... and thank you for it!

I kinda thought annihilation, or burn forever is the flip side of the coin to universalism? (you gotta love it though ... Adam names everything ...)

You may think this has no bearing on the case, but to me it does ... why do you think God couldn't hold things together before he created man? Is he more like a man as some propose? One who does not know the consequence of his actions?

Did God not know by creating the covering cherub in the fashion that he did would lead to the demise of his creation?

Of Jesus I believe it says that there wasn't anything about him that made you desire him ...

This reminds me of a veiled (Lot) ones choice ... or was it more like Jesus who chose a devil?

Hi Scott, for me I guess we can all fall into sin when we have free will. I believe we have a loving God who is full of patience and mercy who is also a God of justice and and judgement that will be no means clear the guilty if they reject his Word and continue in unrepentant sin. Perhaps God tests those who he gives free will to see who will be loyal to love and the good and who will not be loyal to love and Good and it is to these he grants everlasting life? It seems the Angels were tested with the fall of Lucifer in Heaven. About 1/3 of them fell with Lucifer we are told and they were all cast out of heaven to the earth. When God created mankind I think God tested man in the Garden of Eden to see if they would follow him or not. Today all mankind are tested to see if they will follow love and good and accept God's love for them. Those who do God will entrust with eternal life while those who do not have their lot with the devil and his angels. I guess God does not want a creation of robots that is why he created us in His image and that is the purpose of His creation and why he gives us free will. You can imagine if God created eternal murderers, theives, liars and adulterer etc? It would be misery and chaos. Well this is my view and I hope it is helpful.

God bless

Scott Husted · Apr 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Scott, for me I guess we can all fall into sin when we have free will. I believe we have a loving God who is full of patience and mercy who is also a God of justice and and judgement that will be no means clear the guilty if they reject his Word and continue in unrepentant sin. Perhaps God tests those who he gives free will to see who will be loyal to love and the good and who will not be loyal to love and Good and it is to these he grants everlasting life? It seems the Angels were tested with the fall of Lucifer in Heaven. About 1/3 of them fell with Lucifer we are told and they were all cast out of heaven to the earth. When God created mankind I think God tested man in the Garden of Eden to see if they would follow him or not. Today all mankind are tested to see if they will follow love and good and accept God's love for them. Those who do God will entrust with eternal life while those who do not have their lot with the devil and his angels.

God bless

I understand your position, but what of the question of foreknowledge and the covering cherub?

LoveGodsWord · Apr 24, 2020

Scott Husted said:
I understand your position, but what of the question of foreknowledge and the covering cherub?

Hi Scott, that was answered in the post I think you are quoting from (God testing the Angels for eternal life before he did mankind in the garden of eden). God sees the end from the begining (future) so perhaps he understood this was all according to His purpose and all was according to His great master plan of revealing his love and justice to all those who receive his gift of eternalife. Free will is a gift which carries great responsibility to whom God grants it. Only those who can be trusted with it receive everlasting life.

FineLinen · Apr 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response...

Indeed, context is to "BELEIVERS" not "UNBELIEVERS"

thanks for sharing.

I delight sharing the manificent Plan of Abba for the WHOLE broken and bruised members of the 1st Adam.

Yes, the news is great, it is megas in koine, but exceedingly abundantly beyond our wildest vision of glory.

Our God IS Saviour. He is not a potential Saviour, He is Saviour!

Pay attention to....

Us & them.

Us all.

The elect predestined saints.

The firstborn called according to His purpose.

The whole creation.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 24, 2020

FineLinen said:
I delight sharing the manificent Plan of Abba for the WHOLE broken and bruised members of the 1st Adam.

Yes, the news is great, it is megas in koine, but exceedingly abundantly beyond our wildest vision of glory.

Our God IS Saviour. He is not a potential Saviour, He is Saviour!

Pay attention to....

Us & them.

Us all.

The elect predestined saints.

The firstborn called according to His purpose.

Indeed, why are you repeating yourself again dear friend in relation to ROMANS 8? The context is to "BELEIVERS" not "UNBELIEVERS" is it not?

JacksBratt · Apr 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Oh Good greif right back at you dear friend. I do not see it this way at all. All I see is God's love. Why? God is a God of love and mercy but he is also a God of justice and judgement (plenty of scripture here just let me know) Where is God's love in Justice? It is seen when God sent his only begotten son JESUS to die on the cross for our sins and is where we see God's great love for us both personally and collectively. If God was not a God of judgement and Justice JESUS would not have had to come to pay man's penalty for sin so that we can receive Gods' Gift of eternal life and reconciliation. I see God's love in all of this, even in his justice don't you? If there was no justice and judgement for sin JESUS would not have had to die for our. Yet you do not seem to see this. The wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. God is a God of love and mercy to all those who hear and follow him and a God of justice and judgement to those who do not. There is no second chances at the second coming dear friend only justice and judgement. While those who are written in the lambs book of life have already received Love and Mercy. Do you not see Gods love in His Justice dear friend?

Great post..

I would ask them the same question in this thread as I did in another just like this.

Why do we "Go into all the world and preach the gospel" if everyone is going to be in heaven anyway?

Why evangelize?
Why give testimony?
Why witness to people?
Why let our lives shine like Christ?
Why pray for our lost loved ones?
Why even have churches and pastors and missionaries?

Why.... we're all just going to all be there in the end anyway....

Original Happy Camper · Apr 24, 2020

Malachi 4 King James Version (KJV)
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

verse three does not support coming out of the lake of fire

FineLinen · Apr 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Indeed, why are you repeating yourself again dear friend in relation to ROMANS 8? The context is to "BELEIVERS" not "UNBELIEVERS" is it not?

The glorious message of the whole world (the radical pas) being delivered/ set free from the bondage of corruption (us & them) into the glorious liberty of the Father shall be repeated & repeated. Yes, this is the Hope of all hopes!

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension of Abba in union with Him.

Scott Husted · Apr 24, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Scott, that was answered in the post I think you are quoting from (God testing the Angels for eternal life before he did mankind in the garden of eden). God sees the end from the begining (future) so perhaps he understood this was all according to His purpose and all was according to His great master plan of revealing his love and justice to all those who receive his gift of eternalife. Free will is a gift which carries great responsibility to whom God grants it. Only those who can be trusted with it receive everlasting life.

Nope no qoutes here ... just a Bible and a Strong's Concordance ... (gave up books about books forty years ago)

I see the premium is put on the whole soul which the will is a 1/3 of ... very important in the language of God.

So by what you said God created the cherub knowing he would fall, just as he knew what would happen to man when he created him on the earth ... willing to sacrifice the many for the few ...?

JacksBratt · Apr 24, 2020

FineLinen said:
The glorious message of the whole world (the radical pas) being delivered/ set free from the bondage of corruption (us & them) into the glorious liberty of the Father shall be repeated & repeated. Yes, this is the Hope of all hopes!

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension of Abba in union with Him.

Every knee will bow..

Every tounge will confess..

Then.. some will go to outer darkness and some into eternal paradise.

Every convicted person stands in a courtroom and faces their judge and or jury.. They will not deny the power or verdict of that judge or jury.. some will be found guilty.. some found innocent.

Either way.. they all "bow" to the power and finality of that judge and jury...

Same with eternal judgement.. Every human soul that was created.. will kneel at the feet of Christ. All in shame.
Some covered with the blood of Christ and seen as righteous.
Many found wanting and found guilty.
These are off to eternal damnation.

FineLinen · Apr 24, 2020

Original Happy Camper said:
Malachi 4 King James Version (KJV)
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

verse three does not support coming out of the lake of fire

Our God is consuming fire, nothing supports coming out of Him. The Lake of Theos radiates with theion and theioo, in neither case is there any support for an exit from either.

FineLinen · Apr 24, 2020

JacksBratt said:
Every knee will bow..

Every tounge will confess..

I suggest you examine the text and pay particular attention to that wee word "in". That itsy bitsy word is not "at" but in/en.

Do you know what it means to be in Jesus Christ the Lord? You are on your way to understanding what is recorded.

"Wherefore God has highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

At = en

The name = anoma

Jesus = Iēsous

Every = pas

Should bow = kamptō

Heaven = epouranios

Earth = epigeros

Underworld = katachtonios

"He thought of everything, provided for everything we could possibly need, letting us in on the plans he took such delight in making. He set it all out before us in Christ, a long-range plan in which everything would be brought together and summed up in him, everything in deepest heaven, everything on planet earth. It’s in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ and got our hopes up, he had his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working out in everything and everyone."

1. All beings.

2. All dimensions.

3. In union with the Name.

4. Pas = radically means all.

FineLinen · Apr 24, 2020

JacksBratt said:
Same with eternal judgement.. Every human soul that was created.. will kneel at the feet of Christ. All in shame.
Some covered with the blood of Christ and seen as righteous.
Many found wanting and found guilty.
These are off to eternal damnation.

Nonsense!

Every created thing (pan ktisma). Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added). No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off. Saying (legonta). Masculine (construction according to sense, personifying the created things) if genuine, though some MSS. have legonta (grammatical gender agreeing with panta) present active participle of legw, to say. And to the Lamb (kai twi arniwi). Dative case. Praise and worship are rendered to the Lamb precisely as to God on the throne. Note separate articles here in the doxology as in Romans 4:11 and the addition of to krato (active power) in place of iscu (reserve of strength) in Romans 5:12 . -Robertson Word Pictures-

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