The False Prophet Is The Antichrist.

[Douggg]

That obviously doesn't match. Heads are mountains not people but if your way was right, there would have to be a small 8th head which there is not.

In Revelation 12, those same seven heads have crowns. They are kings. people.

Lik4 I said and proved, the ten horned beast is never the antichrist in either Daniel or Revelation. The antichrist is always the next person to be mentioned in the texts.

The person in Revelation13 is no longer the Antichrist, but has become the beast.

 

[Douggg]

I believe that the Antichrist will be the Islamic Mahdi, and the False prophet will be the Islamic version of "Jesus" Isa.
It fits to a T.
the False Prophet defers to the first beast
Isa prays behind the Mahdi
Jesus said that they will come in His name
Isa will claim to be Jesus, but deny that he is the Son of God, and he will say "There is only one God and Muhammad is his messenger" (2 horns like a lamb, speaks like a dragon)

1 John 2 and 1 John 4 express that this is the very spirit of Antichrist, to deny that Jesus is the Son of God, and that is a core tenet of Islam.

Furthermore, Islamic eschatology says that Jesus will break the cross and end the jizya tax. Breaking the cross means ending Christianity, and the Jizya tax is a tax paid by non muslims in Islamic nations to live safely there.

Why will the Jizya tax be ended by Isa?

Revelation 13


There will no longer be tolerance of any religions but Islam. That is why.

In muslim view of the end times, Isa (their name for Jesus) does not return until the Mahdi and his army are in a do or die battle with the dajjal (their name for the Antichrist) and his army. Isa, in their scenario, returns and destroys the dajjal.

So for the false prophet to be the muslim returned Isa, there will have to have been the do or die battle between the Mahdi and the dajjal.

The scenario doesn't work because in the bible - no battle of armies exists between the false prophet and anyone.

In addition, there is no biblical figure to represent the dajjal.

 

[Jamdoc]

In muslim view of the end times, Isa (their name for Jesus) does not return until the Mahdi and his army are in a do or die battle with the dajjal (their name for the Antichrist) and his army. Isa, in their scenario, returns and destroys the dajjal.

So for the false prophet to be the muslim returned Isa, there will have to have been the do or die battle between the Mahdi and the dajjal.

The scenario doesn't work because in the bible - no battle of armies exists between the false prophet and anyone.

In addition, there is no biblical figure to represent the dajjal.

The Mahdi arrives in a time of trouble and war, but not specifically anything other than that.
and Isa arrives in Damascus (so obviously not where the bible places Jesus coming back).
I've heard nothing about them already being in a battle with Dajjal.
only that Dajjal is Jewish in their minds, and most of Dajjal's supporters are also Jews.
Islamic eschatology has them primed to kill Christians and Jews.

 

[DavidPT]

No but remember the false prophet will exercise all the power of the first beast so he can order any of the ten horns/kings or their armies to do the killing. So it's the first beast doing things at the command of the second beast which matches what the little horn is said to accomplish.

I just don't see enough evidence in the OT nor NT that convinces me that the FP is the AC. In 2 Thessalonians 2:4 for example, I tend to take the one meant there, to be meaning the AC. I'm not seeing where the FP is doing any of the things recorded in that verse, but I can see the first beast in Revelation 13 doing those things since it is this beast that is being worshiped and not the false prophet instead.

 

[Ligurian]

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Ok so you do not believe the 10 horned beast is the antichrist in this verse but...


Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

But this ten horned beast is the antichrist? That is an inconsistent interpretation.

Neither verse speaks of the antichrist. The antichrist is ALWAYS the next singular person to be mentioned.

The little horn is the antichrist.
The false prophet is the antichrist.

It's the same things in both books.

Agreed.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Is the little horn the mouth?
Is it the second beast speaking?
Prophecy is written in flash-forward, flash-back style.

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

And how does the dragon speak? He denies what God has said--dragging God down to mankind's level--then makes mankind equal to God.

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The Greek word for name links to authority and character, according to Strongs. Jesus is said to mean He Saves. So whether the actual name or the authority behind the name... blasphemy means to ruin the reputation of God, in modern terms.

So the "name of blasphemy"... wouldn't that be the name of the Christ-impersonator?

Matthew 24:23-24 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe not. For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Which goes back to the description of the prophet-dreamer in Deuteronomy 13:1-3, who teaches people to accept the doctrines of a false god. These doctrines are what Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 are telling us. We've had time to repent... will we go into Great Tribulation with Jezebel, as her army of false prophets? This is the vine of the Earth gathered to Armageddon, just below where Elijah stood on Mt. Carmel.

 

[Ligurian]

There will no longer be tolerance of any religions but Islam. That is why.

Islam is just another pawn in the game. Babylon is calling the shots.

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

This is that same great city where Jesus was murdered: "Jerusalem, thou that killeth the prophets and stones those sent to her"... and the Pharisees are guilty of the blood of all righteous. Whomever the Pharisees are today, they will fall when the twin prophecies of being "ground to powder" happens. Matthew and Daniel cannot be wrong, because Jesus quotes one of them and spoke the other.
The Kingdom of God as a physical--albeit metaphorical--vineyard was removed from Judea because Jesus was killed... and then it became invisible, hidden from view by the tares within it. When the tares are removed and gathered to Armageddon, there'll be no hiding the wheat. But the little horn, being what it is, will pretend that the wheat was the bad guys all along... and blaspheme those who would, at this time, be in Heaven. But Jesus says the tares will learn that He has loved the wheat, Revelation 3:9. False Judah and the tares are the same thing, and calling themselves Judah is blasphemy, Revelation 2:9.

 

[ewq1938]

In Revelation 12, those same seven heads have crowns. They are kings. people.

Mountains are not people. The crowns means there is a king and a kingdom located in one of the mountains in fact since there are 7 mountains but ten kingdoms that means some mountains have two kingdoms. Take north America as an example. A mountain in the Greek is any land that rises up so an island or a continent is considered a mountain. It's not always what we think of in English as a "mountain". North America have three "kingdoms", Canada, The U.S., And Mexico. In Revelation's language, this would be one mountain with 3 crowns.

 

[ewq1938]

In muslim view of the end times, Isa (their name for Jesus) does not return until the Mahdi and his army are in a do or die battle with the dajjal (their name for the Antichrist) and his army. Isa, in their scenario, returns and destroys the dajjal.

So for the false prophet to be the muslim returned Isa, there will have to have been the do or die battle between the Mahdi and the dajjal.

The scenario doesn't work because in the bible - no battle of armies exists between the false prophet and anyone.

In addition, there is no biblical figure to represent the dajjal.

Christians should not base their theology on a false religion's prophecies. We need to stick to the prophecies in the bible.

 

[Ligurian]

That obviously doesn't match. Heads are mountains not people but if your way was right, there would have to be a small 8th head which there is not.

Like I said and proved, the ten horned beast is never the antichrist in either Daniel or Revelation. The antichrist is always the next person to be mentioned in the texts.

Revelation 17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

I think "the beast that was" is a combination of the seven kings. Daniel's composite statue is Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and a 4th. Persia then marched west and conquered Babylon, Assyria, Palestine, Asia Minor, and half of Greece... according to MSM history. But did he really stop there? If so, why was the god of Roman armies the Persian Mithras? They carried this with them everywhere they went, and probably the indigenous ruling class people who accepted Roman rule also accepted Mithras.

I used to laugh at the idea of a revived Roman Empire. But now I think they're a tiny bit correct. The "Holy Roman Empire"(HRE) came to Germany, and apparently went to Russia, too. But how Roman was this Empire, in fact? Rome was a melting pot where even former slaves could become kings. One author says there was even a Muslim Pope... And this IS what became of the Roman Empire, after all... you can see it in the HRE title. The Lateran Treaty healed the wound of Rome and at the same time crippled Italy. So, was the Italian king really representing his kingdom? The overlords are everywhere, and only by nationality, are rulers of their countries. So who rules the overlords?

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

If she rules the kings, is it a stretch to think that she rules their religion, too? Isn't Babylon aka Jezebel, but not quite all grown up?

Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce My servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

She's a false prophet, by the language and by what she teaches. But did she teach the false prophet the doctrines of the strange god?

 

[Douggg]

Mountains are not people. The crowns means there is a king and a kingdom located in one of the mountains in fact since there are 7 mountains but ten kingdoms that means some mountains have two kingdoms. Take north America as an example. A mountain in the Greek is any land that rises up so an island or a continent is considered a mountain. It's not always what we think of in English as a "mountain". North America have three "kingdoms", Canada, The U.S., And Mexico. In Revelation's language, this would be one mountain with 3 crowns.

It does not say mountains in Revelation 12:3. There are no mountains in Revelation 12. The crowns are not on mountains. The crowns are on the heads of seven persons.


Why do the 7 heads have 7 crowns upon the heads in Revelation 12, but not in Revelation 13 ?

And why do the ten horns have no crowns on their horns in Revelation 12, but have crowns in Revelation 13 ?

 

[ewq1938]

I just don't see enough evidence in the OT nor NT that convinces me that the FP is the AC. In 2 Thessalonians 2:4 for example, I tend to take the one meant there, to be meaning the AC. I'm not seeing where the FP is doing any of the things recorded in that verse, but I can see the first beast in Revelation 13 doing those things since it is this beast that is being worshiped and not the false prophet instead.

Ten first beast does not perform miracles to deceive anyone. Only the false prophet does that which is also exactly what the man of sin does making the antichrist another name for the False Prophet. It's true the only worship mentioned in Revelation is the dragon and the first beast but that doesn't mean the False Prophet isn't also worshiped. Plus, the beast is of his creation. It represents the false prophet and all he has accomplished in the world through the power of satan so to worship the beast is to worship the second beast as well and it is his name that is marked on all the people.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast (the Revelation 13:11 beast): for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


Revelation 13:11-18 is all about the False Prophet beast and what he has the power to do.

 

[Jamdoc]

Christians should not base their theology on a false religion's prophecies. We need to stick to the prophecies in the bible.

but when the antiparallels match what the bible says?

I mean it is speculation, we read the same bible and come to different interpretations on things the bible is less clear about.
Comparing antiparallels of another religion is no worse of a speculatory method than interpreting it to be a "revived Roman Empire" based on 1 verse of scripture where the bulk weight of end times scripture specifies Middle Eastern nations and people groups, not Europe.

 

[ewq1938]

It does not say mountains in Revelation 12:3. There are no mountains in Revelation 12.

I assume you mean Revelation 13 not 12:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

These 7 heads are 7 mountains:

Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Why do the 7 heads have 7 crowns upon the heads in Revelation 12, but not in Revelation 13 ?

That's an earlier version of the empire satan wants or possibly already had in the past. It grows to have more crowns and thus has crowns on the 10 horns and not the 7 heads.

And why do the ten horns have no crowns on their horns in Revelation 12, but have crowns in Revelation 13 ?

It simply changed. I think the beast empire in Revelation 12 is weaker than the one of Revelation 13.

 

[ewq1938]

but when the antiparallels match what the bible says?

I mean it is speculation, we read the same bible and come to different interpretations on things the bible is less clear about.
Comparing antiparallels of another religion is no worse of a speculatory method than interpreting it to be a "revived Roman Empire" based on 1 verse of scripture where the bulk weight of end times scripture specifies Middle Eastern nations and people groups, not Europe.

It's never wise to listen to false prophets of false religions. That's one way to get deceived.

Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[Douggg]

I assume you mean Revelation 13 not 12:

No, I meant Revelation 12. You are claiming the heads are mountains in Revelation 13. And I am showing why those are not mountains.

In Revelation 12, the 7 heads have 7 crowns. No mountains in Revelations 12 text. Neither in Revelation 13 for that matter.

Why do the 7 heads have 7 crowns upon the heads in Revelation 12, but not in Revelation 13 ?

And why do the ten horns have no crowns on their horns in Revelation 12, but have crowns in Revelation 13 ?

 

[Ligurian]

Mountains are not people. The crowns means there is a king and a kingdom located in one of the mountains in fact since there are 7 mountains but ten kingdoms that means some mountains have two kingdoms. Take north America as an example. A mountain in the Greek is any land that rises up so an island or a continent is considered a mountain. It's not always what we think of in English as a "mountain". North America have three "kingdoms", Canada, The U.S., And Mexico. In Revelation's language, this would be one mountain with 3 crowns.

Fascinating idea... I'll really have to think about this. Because the mountains on which the woman sits could just as easily be the techtonic plates of the world, and at the same time a city on seven hills. Kings representing their kingdoms seems a fair representation of the term king and/or the kingdom itself. There is obviously no one meaning to these several terms, and this is why it calls for wisdom... and not just a learning of facts. Because all of the parts must fit seamlessly, all of the meanings must apply.

Or it's like when they try to discover which nations went where, but don't rely upon language, archaeology, and history combined. Or pretend that a word which sounds the same, in an English translation of two unrelated languages, applies to two very different peoples.

It does not say mountains in Revelation 12:3. There are no mountains in Revelation 12. The crowns are not on mountains. The crowns are on the heads of seven persons.


Why do the 7 heads have 7 crowns upon the heads in Revelation 12, but not in Revelation 13 ?

And why do the ten horns have no crowns on their horns in Revelation 12, but have crowns in Revelation 13 ?

12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The heads, crowns and horns act like a date-stamp, IMO. Because Prophecy is never strictly linear. In the Old Testament, the same is true... and it seems like the flash-forward there is meant to be comforting to the people who were currently mired in a bog of their leader's making.

Horns are a source of power. Or are they like the horns on the second beast and meant to be the symbols of somebody's religion? Horns were everywhere, when Taurus the bull ruled the sky. So it's never one thing, is it? Daniel's horns, same thing.

 

[ewq1938]

Fascinating idea... I'll really have to think about this. Because the mountains on which the woman sits could just as easily be the techtonic plates of the world, and at the same time a city on seven hills. Kings representing their kingdoms seems a fair representation of the term king and/or the kingdom itself.

Here's more I have on this:

The heads are not the rulers. The horns are the rulers and the heads are WHERE they rule. This is just like Pagan Rome where Caesar (the Antichrist) ruled over ten states with their rulers (the ten horns) and these ten states (kingdoms) were LOCATED on 7 hills (the 7 heads/mountains).


Obviously the 7 hills weren't an additional 7 leaders in Rome anymore than they are 7 more Kings in Rev 13, 17.


Here's the basic issue:

Some translations are based on a manuscript, and some are based on a different manuscript. The manuscripts differ in various ways and this is one of them:

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The KJV has the 7 heads/mountains as separate as the 7 kings while other translations have the 7 heads/mountains as also being the 7 kings:

Rev 17:9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated;
Rev 17:10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.

Both cannot be correct but there is an easy way to figure out which one is right and which isn't.



Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

"having seven heads" means the beast possess all 7 heads. If the manuscripts the ESV is based upon are right then the beast would have one head since it says 6 of the heads would have fallen (no longer exist) by the time of the 7th king/head. The fact that the beast has all 7 heads, and none of the heads had fallen means the ESV version is simply wrong. Furthermore, Rev 13 tells us one head was wounded and then healed so instead of 6 heads supposedly falling before the arrival of the 7th head, all the heads are perfectly intact and one even survives a serious wound and does not fall.

The manuscripts the KJV is based upon are correct because they accurately keep the intact and unfallen 7 heads of the Rev 13:1 beast separate from the completely different information about previous kings which were successive and fell one by one until there was a 7th that was standing alone. These 7 kings are the same as the 4 successive beasts in Daniel. Only one existed at a time with the previous falling away. The 4th being equal to the 7th king (who has a beast-kingdom of course) of Rev 17.


Rev 17:9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated;

The 7 heads of the beast are said to be mountains and those are areas of land where kingdoms exist. The only things of the beast which represent kings are the horns:

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

So, 7 heads are 7 mountains, not kings. The ten horns are the kings of the beast and of course there are 10, not 7 and they are kings for the entire "one hour" the beast reigns over the world. None of the horns or mountains fall leaving others to stand. When it's time for any of the beast to fall, they all fall at the same time being defeated by Christ at Armageddon.

 

[Timtofly]

Fascinating idea... I'll really have to think about this. Because the mountains on which the woman sits could just as easily be the techtonic plates of the world, and at the same time a city on seven hills. Kings representing their kingdoms seems a fair representation of the term king and/or the kingdom itself. There is obviously no one meaning to these several terms, and this is why it calls for wisdom... and not just a learning of facts. Because all of the parts must fit seamlessly, all of the meanings must apply.

Or it's like when they try to discover which nations went where, but don't rely upon language, archaeology, and history combined. Or pretend that a word which sounds the same, in an English translation of two unrelated languages, applies to two very different peoples.



12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The heads, crowns and horns act like a date-stamp, IMO. Because Prophecy is never strictly linear. In the Old Testament, the same is true... and it seems like the flash-forward there is meant to be comforting to the people who were currently mired in a bog of their leader's making.

Horns are a source of power. Or are they like the horns on the second beast and meant to be the symbols of somebody's religion? Horns were everywhere, when Taurus the bull ruled the sky. So it's never one thing, is it? Daniel's horns, same thing.

During the 6th Seal at the Second Coming, the continents are going to move back into one single continent. Thus the beast is no longer divided but one beast.

"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

 

[ewq1938]

During the 6th Seal at the Second Coming

The 6th seal does describe the second coming but it isn't happening at that moment. It's just a vision of the future. How we know that is that Christ does not open the 6th seal and then immediately leave heaven to do all the second coming stuff. He remains in heaven to open the next seal and remains in heaven for an unknown amount of years until the 7th trump sounds which is when the second coming happens.

 

[Jamdoc]

It's never wise to listen to false prophets of false religions. That's one way to get deceived.

Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The difference is, it's the Antiparallels that are being paid attention to.
I'm not listening to their prophecy on the return of Jesus.
I'm noting how their version of the return of Jesus matches with the bible's description of the False Prophet and how that makes sense with some things that Jesus said such as Jesus saying they'd come "in his name"