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Ummm...Gideon old buddy, ITS ONE OR THE OTHER NOT BOTH!!!!
Once we understand and acknowledge that God Almighty chose that mankind would be reconciled to Him through His Son's perfect sacrifice and obedience on the cross there is nothing left to argue about. The only payment God would accept as a permanent payment was the Blood of Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 7:
20 And it was not without an oath. For those who formerly became priests were made such without an oath, 21 but this one was made a priest with an oath by the one who said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind,
‘You are a priest forever.’”
22 This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant.
23 The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, 24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever. 25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. 27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself. 28 For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever.
Hebrews 9:
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,5 then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption
The Law Demands a Payment
God's Grace Provided the Payment
Brother, there is not a shred of doubt in my heart that you have "lit your lamp". Your words are godly and wise, full of genuine humility. Thank you.Yes that is exactly it. It takes a revelation from God for man to see how vile he is in that state, and the many times he has let the Saviour down, which will immediately cause the man to submit fully and accept the ruling of of God for EVERYTHING in his life, rather than clinging on to his pet loves and thoughts of self righteousness. Instead of thinking that God will deal with so and so one day, the man will see that it must be dealt with today.
The clock is about to strike midnight, LOL.Mind you, I see this as the foundation milk of the Gospel. I would dare say scripture explains that Christ accomplished much more than "Just This"... but I will say this... when we die, we go with Jesus... step 1... When we are resurrected into our promised bodies of Glory... step 2... we will then have our promised Bodies like Christ's as promised.
But, Carnal perfection isn't in the biblical cards, as Paul essentially calls these old bodies, bodies of death, destined for maggots.
Does Jesus free us from the bondage of crippling sin? Absolutely... in His time.
The clock is about to strike midnight, LOL.
We are not saved by works, but we also are not saved without them. That is because when we grasp what Jesus did for us, we want to be like him. We want to change. We want to be free from sin. Was it John who said some of Paul's words were-are difficult to understand? I used to struggle with this, then God asked me, what if he hadn't put the verses about works in there. I knew the answer immediately. Humans would use their salvation as an excuse to sin. And that is exactly what these verses are for. For people who claim to be saved and yet continue blatantly and unrepentently to sin. They are a warning. Don't use your salvatI have been a member here on and off for 12 years and during that time, I have seen countless debates as to whether we are saved by faith alone or whether there is a need for works to be produced to verify that our faith was true faith. And in that time, I suspect not one person has been swayed to believe the other's point of view.
Each side has their pet scriptures, and staunchly ignore those of the other side. From a casual viewpoint, it seems the scriptures are contradicting one another, which is impossible. Should this not concern us at least a little bit?
I have my own views on the matter but in truth they are not found in either camp. My point in this post is not to delve into the debate again, but to ask a question I believe is far more significant.
Think for a minute. The debate of faith or faith plus works errs in this regard. If we have to work, it is no more faith. Yet if works do not accompany our faith, we are deceived. Is it any wonder so many have grabbed onto the faith alone tenant? Because if we have to produce fruit to prove we have faith..... well, we are in deep doo-doo.
Those who say faith must be accompanied by works cannot help but be looked at as sliding backwards into self effort, and this legalism. And yet those scriptures that faith must be accompanied by works cannot be ignored. They are plainly there.
This conflict forces us to assume either Paul or James were in error, and one had a "greater" revelation than the other. But think for a minute. If this were true, then the word of God is not totally true, and once that bridge is crossed, and we admit the Word of God has errors, then it is back on our shoulders to decide what is true and what is not. And that leads us right back to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
There must be a way to rectify this apparent contradiction.... and glory to God, there is!
Stay tuned for part two. I make this promise to you. If you will receive it, your walk with the Lord will be transformed.... and so will you!
blessings,
Gideon
Oops, Don't know what happened.We are not saved by works, but we also are not saved without them. That is because when we grasp what Jesus did for us, we want to be like him. We want to change. We want to be free from sin. Was it John who dmsaid some of Paul's words were-are difficult to understand? I used to struggle with this, then God asked me, what if he hadn't put the verses about works in there. I knew the answer immediately. Humans would use their salvation as an excuse to sin. And that is exactly what these verses ate for. For people who claim to be saved and yet continue blatantly and unrepentently to sin. They are a warning. Don't use your salvat
Absolutely! By faith alone. BUT.... and this is huge, we have only believed half of what we supposed to believe. Oh, we have the death and resurrection of Jesus down pat and that in spades.@Gideons300
I believe you to be sincere. I believe you to be humble. I am convicted to make this statement. I am unique in my theological premises as I scripturally contest the Augustine premise of "Original Sin" and see Original Sin as biblically being the opening of "Pandora's Box"... so to speak... at the deception of the evil one, imposed upon Eve. Paul states this, incidentally.
I have attempted to bring this out with a group of individuals once, but the aspect of humanity beings enabled, by God, from Eden to Now, to do Good or Evil weighed too heavy on many people's pride. One of the individual's became enormously angry at me whenever I confessed myself to be a sinful man... because in doctrine I recognize sin is my fault... though sin is powerless to be charged against me because of Christ's propitiation. I know Christ is not a promoter of sin and I know Grace isn't a licence to sin. At my stage in life, I also see myself as in perpetual need of Christ's Grace and will most likely see this as the case until my death.
My conviction in this teaching is that you are offering biblical hope to people in bondage of crippling sin.
My conviction is also that some people are not humble enough to understand what you are actually teaching.
You maintain that you are sinful, but freed from the draw of sin as Christ Promised. This is my understanding, anyhow... please correct me if I'm wrong.
Do you support people who complicate Salvation by Works? I will venture you do not.
You are binding all that you say to faith alone and the work of the Holy Spirit Alone... Am I correct?
All Love to you in Jesus Christ,
- Grip
Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner! ☺️Is this putting on Messiah?
And make no provision for the flesh ( to exist), to fulfill the lusts thereof.Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner! ☺️
And make no provision for the flesh ( to exist), to fulfill the lusts thereof.
How do we walk as overcomers? We combine the blood of the lamb with the Word of OUR testimony. That, guys, is what lighting our lamp consists of.
Christ IS our armor, living through us. We finally become one with Him, and then, miraculously, we become one with one another. Are we not told to 'put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ'? That is the reckoning of faith of which I speak.
Blessings to all,
Gids
And make no provision for the flesh ( to exist), to fulfill the lusts thereof.
How do we walk as overcomers? We combine the blood of the lamb with the Word of OUR testimony. That, guys, is what lighting our lamp consists of.
Christ IS our armor, living through us. We finally become one with Him, and then, miraculously, we become one with one another. Are we not told to 'put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ'? That is the reckoning of faith of which I speak.
Blessings to all,
Gids
Yes! The promises in Jer 31 and Ez 36 are what brought me back to the Christian faith. Because they told me that God would do what I couldn’t accomplish in myself. That just made too much sense. I wouldn’t have bothered returning to the faith if not for that in fact. And it was like a revelation-I hadn’t heard it before, until I really began to study church teaching past and present that is. It somehow gets buried tho, in the all-too-human tendency for legalistic or mechanical “obedience”. But this is the very thing that God wants to move us away from. And it’s not just one or a couple denominations- it’s the human heart that doesn’t change easily. It’s about coming to truly know God, of His incomparable goodness and trustworthiness and unfathomable love for humankind. It’s about overcoming the default image of God we have, of one Who’s distant, aloof in His superiority, angry with man and “jealous of His prerogatives” as one teaching I’m familiar with puts it. This is the “distorted image of God” that man conceived of at the Fall. It’s the reason man ‘hates Him without reason'. Enmity came from man, not God.We have been told that because we have sin natures, we will never be able to always obey. Did God forget that part when He made those amazing promises? LOL.
I will give you my thoughts. What the heck is exegesis?
Just playing but just so you know, I am not much for our complex religious terminology.
Here are the verses:
"For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:10-18
Amazing verses. In these 9 verses are hidden all we have missed and as our eyes are opened to what God is most plainly telling us, and we embrace them as FACT, regardless of how we have walked, we will find is is always, always, always "according to our faith be it unto us.".
We will finally understand why, if we are truly new creatures, if sin really has no authority of us any longer, why we are not walking in newness of life.... overcomers, victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil.
And why? "but it did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."
We are about to believe our God.
When I received my revelation, now 12 years ago, God knew full well what a miserable defeated man I was. I had tried everything to please God, and all I had to show for it was failure...one after another.
Had I tried for 38 years? LOL. With everything I had. That night I cried out to God, because I was the poster boy for Romans 7 and had no more things to try. i wanted to die.
Well, God obliged me, LOL. When He appeared in goldan blinding light, it put me on my face, He spoke to me... yes... audibly.
"For this, my son, I am well pleased with you."
Say what? Pleased with a man so addicted to porn he could not go a day without giving in? Pleased with a man who was angry at the church for not showing me hoe to walk free indeed as Jesus promised? Like Paul, I was a wretch of a man.
I had longed for 38 years as a Christian to feel my God was actually pleased with me and .....crickets. Npw, now when I come to Him fully defeated, with no strength, no hope to ever see improvement, ready to give up, now He tells me He is pleased with me?? it made zero sense.
But He spoke again and one word explained everything.
"I knew you could not live the life I have for you, but you did not yet know it. Yet. I finally knew it. I had finally come to the place where I had no strength, no confidence in my flesh. That is all God wanted. To fully give up.
And the scriptures back this up.
"...and to them who have no strength, He increases might."
and
"He who enters his rest has ceased from his own works, even as God did from His."
God was not finished. He asked me a question.
"In all your efforts to try to please me, to die to self, to defeat sin in your walk, to bear spiritual fruits, did you ever do what I told you to do through Paul?"
He did not wait for me to answer. Probably because He would have a hard time understanding me, with me crying and overwhelmed as I was, lol. He then simply poured light into me so I could clearly see... and boy did I!
Paul tells us in Romans 6 that there are two facts we must know.
1) When Christ died, so did our old carnal nature. The old us died. We are dead.
2) When Christ rose again to newness of life, so DID we. We are new creatures.
But it was that darned next verse that had been hidden from my eyes. Knowing these things, he then instructs us to DO something!
This is the key verse. Everything balances on it.
"Therefore, reckon yourselves dead to sin, and alive unto God."
My jaw dropped. A serious Christian for almost four decades. I have chapters 6-8 memorized, lol. But never... never had I seen what Paul plainly told me to do, told you to do. I had never laid claim to what I said I believed was true. I had never put off my old man by faith and put on my new man.
What did I do? I spoke! Out loud! LOUDLY out loud. Loud enough for every demon in hell to hear me. Loud enough for every saint and angel in Heaven to hear me. But most importantly, loud enough for my own ears to hear the truth. truth that had been true since the day I was born again.
I confessed who I was not. I am not that same old worm of a sinner. I was, but no more. I confessed who I was, a new creature in Christ. An overcomer, victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil. I confessed that it was no longer me but Christ who now lived in me, and I yielded myself to God in a way I had never done before..... as one who is alive from the dead.
It has now been 12 years since that amazing night. I have learned so much, and yet have so much to learn. I have been changed so much, but still have far more to go. It has been lonely as God leads me, save for a few precious brothers and sisters.
I will sum this up before all the readers fall asleep. What I share works. No matter how weak, no matter how addicted to sin, you are a perfect candidate for having your feet planted on the highway of holiness.
This amazing walk is for the weakest to the strongest, and in that order, lol.
How was my exegesis? ☺️
blessings,
Gideon
Bondage past tense.@Gideons300
I believe you to be sincere. I believe you to be humble. I am convicted to make this statement. I am unique in my theological premises as I scripturally contest the Augustine premise of "Original Sin" and see Original Sin as biblically being the opening of "Pandora's Box"... so to speak... at the deception of the evil one, imposed upon Eve. Paul states this, incidentally.
I have attempted to bring this out with a group of individuals once, but the aspect of humanity beings enabled, by God, from Eden to Now, to do Good or Evil weighed too heavy on many people's pride. One of the individual's became enormously angry at me whenever I confessed myself to be a sinful man... because in doctrine I recognize sin is my fault... though sin is powerless to be charged against me because of Christ's propitiation. I know Christ is not a promoter of sin and I know Grace isn't a licence to sin. At my stage in life, I also see myself as in perpetual need of Christ's Grace and will most likely see this as the case until my death.
My conviction in this teaching is that you are offering biblical hope to people in bondage of crippling sin.
My conviction is also that some people are not humble enough to understand what you are actually teaching.
You maintain that you are sinful, but freed from the draw of sin as Christ Promised. This is my understanding, anyhow... please correct me if I'm wrong.
Do you support people who complicate Salvation by Works? I will venture you do not.
You are binding all that you say to faith alone and the work of the Holy Spirit Alone... Am I correct?
All Love to you in Jesus Christ,
- Grip
Bondage past tense.
Not present not ongoing.
I think a major problem is when people take that verse figuratively, to mean to see oneself dead to sin without necessarily being dead to sin, without recognizing that this is exactly what God wants to accomplish in us-and is capable of accomplishing in us. Otherwise faith can become a sort of license to remain in sin, or "freedom" from overcoming its slavery-sort of ironic."Therefore, reckon yourselves dead to sin, and alive unto God."
My jaw dropped. A serious Christian for almost four decades. I have chapters 6-8 memorized, lol. But never... never had I seen what Paul plainly told me to do, told you to do. I had never laid claim to what I said I believed was true. I had never put off my old man by faith and put on my new man.
Great in my humble opinion. Sounds like you're living a right exegesis, not just exegeting it. And telling us about it.How was my exegesis? ☺️
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