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The Evolution of Morality
- Thread starter biggles53
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Oncedeceived
Senior Veteran
Is there any evidence that can not be refuted or changed following new discoveries?
The Christian worldview is consistent with the overall known universe. I think that evidence is important in any worldview, however, I believe that you as well as I allow for gaps or the unknown in each of our worldviews.
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Had your parents been Muslims do you agree that you could well be a Muslim now?
I do hope you are not going to tell us that your parents had nothing to do with you being a creationist.
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Oncedeceived
Senior Veteran
My parents were not religious. Religion was never brought up in our home at all. My brother is an atheist of the strongest sort. I mean I really don't even know what my dad believed about religion due to the conversation never being brought up. My mother became a believer about ten years ago.
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Oncedeceived
Senior Veteran
So? There is nothing in the Bible that puts an age on the universe.
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bhsmte
Newbie
You mentioned the evidence was important, correct? Well, there is overwhelming evidence supporting the age of the universe and the earth, which the majority of christians already accept. Are you saying you reject this overwhelming evidence because the unknown authors who wrote the bible 2000 years ago didn't state these ages?
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Wow, this is a fast moving thread! For reference, I'm replying to Once's post #428.
Once wrote:
Yes, there is a mix of old and new stuff. The old stuff is still relevant if it hasn't been found wrong by newer work. At any rate, this gives you a lot to look into if you are interested in understanding how morality can result from an evolutionary process, in addition to the descriptions from the book which I wrote out, and of course newer work, like that in the several journals on this topic.
OK, that sounds like we agree that the evolution of intelligence and of hierarchy are agreed to be feasible.
What? Are you for real? Memory is not an evolutionary mystery. The physical and chemical way memories are formed, retained, and recalled is well understood in detail, and is based on the binding of magnesium ions on neural synapses. I don't have a biology degree and I even know that. It's described in more detail in basic biology courses like this one: Biology: The Science of Life
The evolution of memory is also well understood, with the changes to the neurons over time and the intermediates forms described.
If you want to understand the complicated and wondrous history that gave us memory, then you could get a degree in neurological evolution. It'll take that to learn the many details and how we know them.
It again sounds like you are making false assertions from a position of ignorance.
It's also worth mentioning that the evolution of nervous systems is also well understood, with plenty of intermediates. You mentioned that basic nervous systems appeared "fully functional" - but that's a pointless statement, because any animal will be "fully functional" to survive, since if it isn't, then it's extinct. Nervous systems developed from very simple to very complex. For instance, early nervous systems were simply scattered cells that were able to activate each other, forming a net of nerves. That's a far cry from the parallel systems of sensory and motor nerves we have, with a layered and hierarchical structure.
In anytime, there are times of surplus and scarcity. Yes, we are certainly talking about times before modern humans, and about the many times one would be in a situation where another's scarcity is significantly worse than one's own. This is clear to any biologist, in species ranging from apes, to vampire bats and many more.
Why would you think that's after the fact? It's the same situation millions of animals are in, in the wild today. It's shows how morality evolved.
There is a ton of reasearch here. Check out other videos if this one isn't clear. For instance, a monkey given a desired prize will throw it back if a neighbor monkey gets a bigger prize for the same action.
Why would you think that this is being interpreted in a non-objective way? After all, this work is being done by people with all kinds of different motivations and worldviews - some Christians, some Muslims, some Atheists, and so on. How could they possibly be all trying to support these disparate worldviews, yet agreeing on the data?
Why not?
OK, so consider an egg cell with a sperm cell next to it. It it intelligent?
OK, good. So we agree that intelligence confers an advantage, and hence would experience positive selection pressure by natural selection.
Oh, I agree that, aside from any evidence about what actually happened, that God could well have ingrained something into life forms that gave rise to intelligence. In fact, in that way I agree that God could have poofed intelligence into being at any time, or at multiple times. Or that God could have poofed all life into existence instantaneously, or that He could have poofed Mt. Vesuvius into existence instantaneously, or that He could have poofed you and I into existence instantaneously last Thursday.
I'm simply looking at the evidence and seeing HOW God likely actually did the creating - since He could have created it in by using any of literally millions of methods.
I think we agree that God did the creating, and that God is vast and powerful enough to have used any of millions of methods, right?
Papias
Once wrote:
What? Are you for real? Memory is not an evolutionary mystery. The physical and chemical way memories are formed, retained, and recalled is well understood in detail, and is based on the binding of magnesium ions on neural synapses. I don't have a biology degree and I even know that. It's described in more detail in basic biology courses like this one: Biology: The Science of Life
The evolution of memory is also well understood, with the changes to the neurons over time and the intermediates forms described.
If you want to understand the complicated and wondrous history that gave us memory, then you could get a degree in neurological evolution. It'll take that to learn the many details and how we know them.
It again sounds like you are making false assertions from a position of ignorance.
It's also worth mentioning that the evolution of nervous systems is also well understood, with plenty of intermediates. You mentioned that basic nervous systems appeared "fully functional" - but that's a pointless statement, because any animal will be "fully functional" to survive, since if it isn't, then it's extinct. Nervous systems developed from very simple to very complex. For instance, early nervous systems were simply scattered cells that were able to activate each other, forming a net of nerves. That's a far cry from the parallel systems of sensory and motor nerves we have, with a layered and hierarchical structure.
There is a ton of reasearch here. Check out other videos if this one isn't clear. For instance, a monkey given a desired prize will throw it back if a neighbor monkey gets a bigger prize for the same action.
Why would you think that this is being interpreted in a non-objective way? After all, this work is being done by people with all kinds of different motivations and worldviews - some Christians, some Muslims, some Atheists, and so on. How could they possibly be all trying to support these disparate worldviews, yet agreeing on the data?
Why not?
I'm simply looking at the evidence and seeing HOW God likely actually did the creating - since He could have created it in by using any of literally millions of methods.
I think we agree that God did the creating, and that God is vast and powerful enough to have used any of millions of methods, right?
Papias
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Speaking of memory, do we actually know how it works then? I was under the impression it was still a mystery? How much memory capacity do we have? and when someone survives an incident involving half their brain being destroyed, how is it they retain all their memories?
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Which is why I'm asking what your profession is in Science. What is your scientific background? What fields have you worked in? Every single time I mention something you seem to come back with the exact same questions...
Quote the source, quote the author etc etc. You do this with virtually every single question which makes me seriously doubt you have any background in science at all, yet you seem to fully support it? This is very odd indeed. How can you possibly support something so much that you have no knowledge of?
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EternalDragon
Counselor
There is no real evidence. It is assumptions based on a certain presupposition.
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