The Evil that is Saddam

[MetalBlade]

Since, I am a historian, and this is going on I want to share some of my findings with you all! I feel strongly in the war of Iraq. Saddam needs to go, and these are the reasons why:

 

 WARNING IF YOU ARE YOUNG OR HAVE A WEAK STOMACH, SOME OF THIS INFO COULD BE GRUSOME!

 

Here is a list of SOME of the crimes committed by Saddam:


<UL type=square>
-Executed opponents and suspected potential rivals, including scores of high-level government officials and thousands of political prisoners.
-Since the 1970s, escalated and made routine the systematic torture and execution of political prisoners.
-Ordered the use of chemical weapons against Iranian forces in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war, and against Iraq's Kurdish population in 1988. The 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war left 150,000 to 340,000 Iraqis and 450,000 to 730,000 Iranians dead.
-Ordered the invasion and destruction of Kuwait in 1990-91 with 1,000 Kuwaitis killed.
-Directed the 1991 bloody suppression of Kurdish and Shi'a insurgencies in northern and southern Iraq with at least 30,000 to 60,000 killed.
-Ordered the destruction of southern marshes to extinguish the Shi'a insurgency.&nbsp;


&nbsp;

Here are some of the crimes committed by Quasy, Saddam's son:


<UL type=square>
-Qusay swiftly helps Saddam eliminate any real or perceived threat to the regime by using bloody and shocking "tools of repression" to blackmail, force confessions, and destroy opponents.
-Authorizes interrogation, jailing, and execution of political prisoners and their families.
-Periodically ordered during 1988-99 mass prison executions of several thousand inmates ("prison cleansing").
-Led crackdown against the al-Dulaym tribe in 1995 and local Shi'a revolt in 1997.


Here are some of the crimes committed by Uday, Saddam's other son:
-History of extreme violent behavior including murder, torture, and rape of women and girls.
-Has tortured and jailed members of Iraq's national Soccer Team for losing games.
-A leading regime figure in the wholesale looting of Kuwaiti property.
-Heavily involved in Iraq's smuggling against UN sanctions, and in illicit financial dealings.This is just SOME information I have been researching on. Unlike a lot of people, I don't base my opinion when only knowing one side of the story, and these stories have led me to feel strongly against Saddam's regime. If you would like the web site I got this info from, pm or e-mail me. If I can find anything else of this nature, I will post it later!

May God Bless us in these time!
Edit: I realize that some of this is mest up! I'm not brilliant at computers...But I think you can skip over the mess ups!!
[/list]
[/list]

 

[coastie]

I really am curious as to why nobody has any comments about this.

 

[Doctrine1st]

Oh my goodness, what a horrible, evil, sadistic, heinous, murderer of innocents this deranged madman is. He came to power through assassinations and the first thing he did was to pick legislators at random, and have them killed on the spot for no reason, to scare the holy **** out of them and let them know how insane he actually was. Now why in the world would anyone have a allegiance with him let alone supply this raving lunatic with chemical weapons and funding to put him in the position to genocide his own people in the first place? I am sure being the historian you are, you can figure that out, but it’s not Bin Laden.

 

[HGOtis]

This is why this regime needs to be taken care of. Its ok for Sadam and his sons to murder millions but we are considered the murders? A young man who lives in our city was on the news and he watched as his father was killed and beheaded in front of his family because he dared say something against Sadam. This young man along with many others are for US invasion to remove the regime. All of you out there who protest think long and hard about what Sadam has done and continues to do and tell me how you would take care of the situation?? This man has had 12 years. Guess what, TIME IS UP!!!

 

[nephilimiyr]

I have a feeling if this was a thread about US atrocities we'd be on the second page already! None of what MetalBlade posted is real news to me and most, not all, people who oppose this war doesn't argue that Saddam and his kronies are ruthless, bad people but even saying that I don't think they're interested in talking about Saddam and his atrocities but in bashing the US.

Make a thread and post how terrible the US is and you'll get comments!

 

[Stormy]

Just a moment ago on TV they were interviewing some inside source about Saddam. He said Saddam is going to stay in his role of the victim with the United States being evil and cruel. But in order to do this he will need to produce a lot of civilian casualties. His reign of horror continues.

 

[Didymus]

tv doesnt have a crystal ball and cant tell the furture. God is still in control

 

[nephilimiyr]

Stormy

Just a moment ago on TV they were interviewing some inside source about Saddam. He said Saddam is going to stay in his role of the victim with the United States being evil and cruel. But in order to do this he will need to produce a lot of civilian casualties. His reign of horror continues. <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/mad.gif" border=0>

You wouldn't want to acuse Saddam of producing civilian casualties and&nbsp;blameing the US bombs for those deaths&nbsp;do you? Why, Saddam has done everything in his power to try and stop this war from happening, why would he want to do something like that for, he loves his people!

Honestly if he doesn't do something like that it would be completely out of character for him!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Today at 03:39 PM nephilimiyr said this in Post #5

I have a feeling if this was a thread about US atrocities we'd be on the second page already! None of what MetalBlade posted is real news to me and most, not all, people who oppose this war doesn't argue that Saddam and his kronies are ruthless, bad people but even saying that I don't think they're interested in talking about Saddam and his atrocities but in bashing the US.

Make a thread and post how terrible the US is and you'll get comments!

Agreed. The US has always been introspective to a fault. We have such high expectations of ourselves and our own leaders that we constantly shoot ourselves in the feet. We are not perfect... but we are closer than 95% percent of the countries on the planet. Let an FBI agent mess up and shoot a person on Ruby Ridge and we spend months and years beating outselves up about it. Indeed we should be concerned... but who else do you see do this???

Look at the hundreds of thousands of people protesting the US actions around the world. Where were they when Saddam was killing 1.5 million people? The US is just an easy target. Much of the world is blind to not only the problems in their own countries, but they are blind when it comes to the good things that the US has done for them.
I tend to ignore them because their is nothing we can or will ever do to please them. We have to do what we think is right, and let them do what they want.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hobart

Look at the hundreds of thousands of people protesting the US actions around the world. Where were they when Saddam was killing 1.5 million people? The US is just an easy target. Much of the world is blind to not only the problems in their own countries, but they are blind when it comes to the good things that the US has done for them.
I tend to ignore them because their is nothing we can or will ever do to please them. We have to do what we think is right, and let them do what they want.

We're an easy target because we're in everyone's line of sight and most countries want us to stay that way. Your right, I totally agree, we will never please everyone or every nation. We are still the top dog in this world and like&nbsp;every single empire or world power before us we will be criticized, poked, and prauded and hardly ever given compliment. This is fine with me as long as I feel we're doing the right things for the right reasons.

 

[Sauron]

Today at 06:41 AM MetalBlade said this in Post #1

Since, I am a historian,

Really?&nbsp; At the age of 19, you're "a historian"?&nbsp; Congratulations.



&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Here is a list of&nbsp;SOME of the crimes committed by Saddam:


&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Nice.&nbsp; Now tell me why we don't attack NKorea, Pakistan, Israel, Turkey, Indonesia, etc.&nbsp; They've had similar (or worse) human rights records.&nbsp; Yet we didn't lift a finger to stop them - in fact, in some of these countries, we set up military alliances and/or special trade and political arrangements, that kept these people in power much longer than they would normally have been able to remain.

So once again - and since you're a "historian" - tell me why, out of all these countries - we decide to liberate (ahem) the only country that happens to be sitting on a boatload of oil.

Use both sides of the paper if necessary.


&nbsp;

 

[Doctrine1st]

Well metalblade, being the self annoited "Historian" I'm sure you ran across this:

U.S. tilts toward Iraq


When the war started, President Jimmy Carter, with only a few months left in office, declared the United States would stay out of it. Carter barred the sale of U.S.-made commercial jets and turbines to Iraq.


But soon after taking office in 1981, the Reagan administration changed to a policy that "tilted" toward Iraq. Reagan lifted Carter's ban on jet sales. The Reagan administration, which viewed Iran as its top enemy in the region, found many ways to help Iraq, despite Saddam's well-known involvement with terrorists and grisly human rights violations.


In 1982, the Reagan administration removed Iraq from its list of state sponsors of terrorism.


In December 1983, Donald Rumsfeld, then a special presidential envoy, met with Saddam in Baghdad and told him that the United States wanted to resume full diplomatic relations. In a CNN interview in September 2002, Rumsfeld said: "In that visit, I cautioned him about the use of chemical weapons, as a matter of fact, and discussed a host of other things." Saddam agreed to diplomatic relations, which were resumed in 1984, but he kept using poison gas.


The Washington Post has reported that the U.S. government's favors to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq period included intelligence sharing, cluster bombs from the CIA through a Chilean front company, efforts to cut off foreign military supplies to Iran (except when Washington decided to provide weapons to the Iranians in the famous arms-for-hostages deal that was at the heart of the 1986 Iran-Contra scandal) and facilitating Iraq's acquisition of materials for chemical and biological weapons.


U.S. companies supplied chemicals, missile components and computers that had military uses. Among the computer suppliers was Unisys. And Iraq acquired the "fuel air explosive," pioneered by Honeywell, which sets the air on fire. The sales were licensed by the U.S. government.


In its piece reviewing the U.S. assistance to Iraq during the 1980s, the Post quoted David Newton, former U.S. ambassador to Iraq: "Fundamentally, the policy was justified. We were concerned that Iraq should not lose the war with Iran, because that would have threatened Saudi Arabia and the gulf. Our long-term hope was that Hussein's government would become less repressive and more responsible."


The war with Iran ended Aug. 20, 1988, after eight years and the loss of more than 1 million lives. In the end, not an inch of territory changed hands.


Gassing the Kurds


Toward the end of the war and immediately after it, Saddam turned his chemical attacks against Kurdish towns and villages, presumably to punish the Kurds for their wartime collaboration with Iran.


In 1987-88, Iraq conducted a campaign known as the Anfal, killing an estimated 100,000 Iraqi Kurds. Many were executed or killed by shells. But many also died by having poison gas dropped on them, including mustard gas, which burns, mutates DNA and causes cancer; the nerve gases sarin and tabun, which can kill, paralyze or cause nerve damage; and possibly VX gas and the biological agent atafloxin. All are banned by international law.


The most famous attack was the gassing of Halabja, a mostly Kurdish city near the Iranian border, on March 16, 1988. Rebel Kurds, working with Iranian troops, had taken the town a few days earlier. The gassing, which killed an estimated 5,000 Kurds, was part of the successful Iraqi counterattack.


U.S. Sen. Claiborne Pell (D-R.I.) horrified at the attacks on the Kurds, got the Senate to unanimously adopt the Prevention of Genocide Act, which would end U.S. subsidies and U.S. purchases of Iraqi oil and ban the export to Iraq of technology that would help advance its weapons programs.


Still seeking to maintain its relationship with Iraq, and mindful that U.S. farmers and U.S. corporations were making a lot of money selling to Iraq, the White House opposed the sanctions.


One internal State Department memo put the tradeoff between ethical, political and economic considerations this way: "Human rights and chemical weapons use aside, in many respects our political and economic interests run parallel with those of Iraq."


The Prevention of Genocide Act died in the House.


In 1989, President George Bush opposed a second stripped-down Iraq sanctions bill right up to the day that Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. Within hours of the invasion, the bill passed 416-0 and Bush, by executive order, imposed a total embargo on Iraq and a freeze on Iraqi assets in the United States.

http://www.tribnet.com/news/iraq/story/2807054p-2846253c.html

Things are not black in white and we are not the angels we make ourselves out to be.

 

[Auntie]

Saddam's gotta go. No doubt about it. Some say he may already be dead.


God bless and protect the brave soldiers who are on their way to Bagdad now!

 

[humanimal]

Even Humanimal no like Saddam....
grrrrr....

 

[humanimal]

Today at 04:08 AM Sauron said this in Post #11


Nice.&nbsp; Now tell me why we don't attack NKorea, Pakistan, Israel, Turkey, Indonesia, etc.&nbsp; They've had similar (or worse) human rights records.&nbsp; Yet we didn't lift a finger to stop them - in fact, in some of these countries, we set up military alliances and/or special trade and political arrangements, that kept these people in power much longer than they would normally have been able to remain.

So once again - and since you're a "historian" - tell me why, out of all these countries - we decide to liberate (ahem) the only country that happens to be sitting on a boatload of oil.

Use both sides of the paper if necessary.


&nbsp;

We get to them soon enufff. No you worry. Be patient.
We fingers will be lifting and they be sorry.

 

[MetalBlade]

I truly am surprised at how many antiwar and antiamericans there are here. Tis really a shame. Yes I understand how he got to power and I know the whole Iran Contra Scandal. That isn't the point I am trying to make. When was the last time President Bush shot missles filled with biological material into his own people? Or any president for that matter??? Honestly, just stating the facts about the man and his regime. You want the website, pm me! It has pictures of the people (Kurds) dying and or dead from the gas agents. I think it will change your mind about Saddam's cruelty!

 

[MetalBlade]

Yesterday at 11:08 PM Sauron said this in Post #11



Really?&nbsp; At the age of 19, you're "a historian"?&nbsp; Congratulations.



&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Nice.&nbsp; Now tell me why we don't attack NKorea, Pakistan, Israel, Turkey, Indonesia, etc.&nbsp; They've had similar (or worse) human rights records.&nbsp; Yet we didn't lift a finger to stop them - in fact, in some of these countries, we set up military alliances and/or special trade and political arrangements, that kept these people in power much longer than they would normally have been able to remain.

So once again - and since you're a "historian" - tell me why, out of all these countries - we decide to liberate (ahem) the only country that happens to be sitting on a boatload of oil.

Use both sides of the paper if necessary.


&nbsp;

Okay in retropect, I am not a "historian." However I have been reading about history since I was able to read. I have been a civil war reeanacter since 8, working on cannons then to a soilder. Right now I am at college being trained to be a history teacher. I credit myself as a historian because I know a great deal about US history and politics.

The reason why we are not attacking those other countries is simple. You must realize that we (Americans) are fighting this war on terror, and our intelligence points to evidents of Iraq giving support to&nbsp; terrorist cells. Whether Bin Laden likes Saddam is irrelevant. Some may argue that that is a lie, and it may be. I have support in the American government. In my bio I posted on this website (my first day here) I stated that I am very VERY jingoistic.
It's all in what you belive. As for N. Korea, who says we won't fight them, or Pakistan since it is probably the second highest country in the Middle East that holds terrorists.


As for the US interest of oil............no! First off, most of the oil we get comes from other places. I think (not 100% sure) that only like 10% of our oil comes from Iraq. Most of it comes from Venezula. You must then ask yourself, why is France and Russia against using force in Iraq? Maybe it is because they have tie ins already with some Iraqi oil!!! Look at both sides, it is very interesting when you do!!!

 

[Doctrine1st]

Two words that are blantaly misused, overused, "disrespect" and "anti-american." In fact it is ones civic duty to speak out when there are wrongs and quite un-american to shuffle along like sheep while sticking ones head on the ground like a ostrich, while your powers to be run rough shot over everyone knowing everyones asleep at the wheel, and won't question anything said or done, or just regurgitate whats told.

Nobody's disputing his crimes I'm ****ed off with those who help him reach his level of murder by supplying a known murderer with WMD, and looking the other way, and then some years later point out how much a murderer he is. Duh!

Let put to you like this, if I have knowledge of someone who is a known horrible murderer and approach him and supply him with weapons to do some murdering that will benefit my needs, but these weapons will make him more dangerous and henoius then ever before. So he does my work and in addition he goes and kills his whole family and thousands and thousands of others in addition with those weapons I supplied, am I Culpa able? am I some what responsible? No one seems to mention these things.

The problem is as a "historian" your only telling half the facts.