The 'evil' in the Old Testament

[laconicstudent]

More.

2.) The Unity and the Trinity of God

Q. Is God only One?

A. God is one only, but with three Persons unconfused, and inseparable, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Q. What phrase does the Church employ with reference to God?

A. That God is One in Three and Three in One.

Q. Can we understand the Holy Trinity?

A. No, because it is a mystery.

Q. What is a mystery?

A. A mystery is a truth which we cannot understand.

Q. Is it right that we should reject everything which we cannot understand?

A. No, because there are many things which we do not understand, but which exist, and which we use continually; for example, magnetism, electricity, gravity, etc.

Q. What material thing presents a little figurative similarity to the Holy Trinity?

A. The sun, which being one, presents to us three things, light, heat, and matter.

Q. Did only our First Parents suffer from their disobedience?

A . Unfortunately the whole human race born since has also suffered. They inherited the same evils, just as they would have inherited immortality and happiness, if our First Parents had obeyed; because just as impure water proceeds from an impure fountain so also sinful men are born of sinful ancestors.

Q. Are we responsible for the original sin?

A. Personally none; because we did not personally commit the sin of our First Parents; but we are charged with it by inheritance because we were in Adam and Eve when they sinned, and for this reason the Apostle Paul writes:

"..all have sinned." ...Book of Romans, Chapter 5, Verse 12.

Q. What is the propitiatory or atoning sacrifice of Jesus?

A. The sacrifice of His sinless life, which He offered upon the cross, which was necessary to offer to God, and which He did that the divine Justice, which had been insulted by the disobedience of our First Parents, might be propitiated.

Q. What would have occured if this sacrifice of Jesus had not been offered?

A. The body of man, after undergoing in this life all this misfortune, would finally have died, as also now, but without any hope of a resurrection, and the soul would have been punished eternally in the life to come far from God; while now, because of the sacrifice of Christ, the soul is delivered from punishment, (if man believes in Him and is perfected living after His commandments), and the body is to be raised and united each with its soul.

Q. Could any other have offered this sacrifice?

A. No; neither man nor angel, because no man was without sin, and an angel could not offer a sacrifice sufficiently to satisfy the divine righteousness, because a creature, however much it can do, cannot do it of itself alone, but only by the aid of Divine Grace.

Q. What is the power of the sacrifice of Jesus?

A. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ has the power to forgive the sins of all men, of every age, who believe in Jesus and repent for their sins, while still in this life, and to make them children of God after they have been children of wrath by reason of disobedience of Adam and Eve.

 

[Lily_Among_Thorns]

The main thing that I struggle with is the acts in the Old Testament - the stoning, the murder etc. How could God have condoned that?

I do believe in Jesus and what he came to earth to do, and I know that with Him came the New Testament, but we can't ignore the OT. I find it difficult to accept and even explain to people why I would worship a God, who allowed, or even instructed for people to be killed. I guess Leviticus is a good example of what I mean.

'Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed' (Leviticus 20:9)

'If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die'. (Leviticus 20:10).

'Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community'. (Leviticus 24:14-16)

I know Jesus is good, but the OT confuses me. Why would the God who sent Jesus to save us, the good God who loves us, allow and instruct people to kill and murder others?

The answer is simple. The prophets were just men; and being men they placed their own inadequacy into what they teached. They're failures (in what they saw in God) became the law.

 

[S.O.C]

I started this thread to understand better and not lose my faith completely. Saying that I don't get why God will send someone to burn in Hell - is the truth, I don't get it. Would you rather I lie, or not question anything and follow faith blindly even though I don't understand some parts of it - or even give up altogether?

I ask questions and am trying to find answers to help me understand it, so I will explain my difficulties and why I don't agree. If you don't like it, don't read it. Faith doesn't come easily for everyone, and some people have questions. I have questions, and I don't understand the answers I have been given through life, so I will continue to ask questions until I see the reasons. As far as the crucifixion goes, I think it is a valid question - why would an all powerful God show His love through the death of is only son?

If you find it demeaning, turn the other cheek, respond with kindness - isn't this what you are supposed to do?

The answer to why is to fulfill Gods perfect plan for mankind. Jesus got on the cross willingly and since the father and son are one than Jesus obviously Jesus had good reason to trust in the Heavenly father, right! Through Jesus obedience has saved mankind (those who accept Christ and are conformed to his image) and yet at the same time Jesus is glorified by his death and resurrection. Win/ Win situation, but you are trying to reason the eternal thinking of God from a human point of view. The plan of God; that was planned and conceived by only God, since before his WORD (Christ) which created all things. Even the most powerful angle created by God (Satan) could not conceive the depths of Gods plan, only in hind sight with the aid of the Bible and the help of the Holy Spirit can we speculate his plan with some Wisdom and knowledge. Somethings we need to trust without full understanding that's were true Faith is manifested in a believer.

 

[jonnyfavourite]

I started this thread to understand better and not lose my faith completely. Saying that I don't get why God will send someone to burn in Hell - is the truth, I don't get it. Would you rather I lie, or not question anything and follow faith blindly even though I don't understand some parts of it - or even give up altogether?

I ask questions and am trying to find answers to help me understand it, so I will explain my difficulties and why I don't agree. If you don't like it, don't read it. Faith doesn't come easily for everyone, and some people have questions. I have questions, and I don't understand the answers I have been given through life, so I will continue to ask questions until I see the reasons. As far as the crucifixion goes, I think it is a valid question - why would an all powerful God show His love through the death of is only son?

If you find it demeaning, turn the other cheek, respond with kindness - isn't this what you are supposed to do?

You ask great questions, the sad fact is a lot of christians never ask these questions.

I am as confused as you...

 

[guava]

quickly . Leviticus are rules , earthly rules. we're heavenly beings too . so we supersede the rules . this is fact we often forget . it says the son of man can forgive sin .The son of man is bar nhas in my native tongue which is Semitic .the son of man means the forgot . man means to forget . it means we forget that we are heavenly beings . so you remmber that you are heavenly beings and you don't have to worry about earthly rules

what we are subject to is the LAW . Jesus came to complete the law . so concentrate on Jesus because his teachings speak to the heavenly nature of us which is the primary one.

now why would a powerful god do so and so. the answer is obvious. so he can show you that he is powerful enough to defeat death . isn't death the ultimate challenge. well there you have it . he beat it and not only that he beat it as a man and he says you too can.

anyways it's not rational to speak of god as all powerful. what you can say is that god is holy . holy mean kadaosh which means other . he is other than anything you can think up or imagine .

there is this incident in the bible where a man asks Jesus what he must do to earn eternal life and jesus tells him the only good one is god .if you are going to ask for something ask for something befitting a god to give to you. . what the man should have asked for is god and not eternal life because the only gift worthy of a god to give is himself and to ask for anything less than that is an insult to god because it is saying he is cheap..god is not cheap. when he gives he gives the ultimate gift which is himself.

 

[S.O.C]

quickly . Leviticus are rules , earthly rules. we're heavenly beings too . so we supersede the rules . this is fact we often forget . it says the son of man can forgive sin .The son of man is bar nhas in my native tongue which is Semitic .the son of man means the forgot . man means to forget . it means we forget that we are heavenly beings . so you remmber that you are heavenly beings and you don't have to worry about earthly rules

what we are subject to is the LAW . Jesus came to complete the law . so concentrate on Jesus because his teachings speak to the heavenly nature of us which is the primary one.

now why would a powerful god do so and so. the answer is obvious. so he can show you that he is powerful enough to defeat death . isn't death the ultimate challenge. well there you have it . he beat it and not only that he beat it as a man and he says you too can.

anyways it's not rational to speak of god as all powerful. what you can say is that god is holy . holy mean kadaosh which means other . he is other than anything you can think up or imagine .

there is this incident in the bible where a man asks Jesus what he must do to earn eternal life and jesus tells him the only good one is god .if you are going to ask for something ask for something befitting a god to give to you. . what the man should have asked for is god and not eternal life because the only gift worthy of a god to give is himself and to ask for anything less than that is an insult to god because it is saying he is cheap..god is not cheap. when he gives he gives the ultimate gift which is himself.

Why do you say "it's not rational to speak of God as all powerful"? Does not the Bible say God is all powerful! Would you consider the Bible irrational?

The passage about eternal salvation is a rhetorical answer in the form of a question by Jesus, ment to illustrate to the man Jesus and God are one. "WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? no one is good save GOD alone".

Fact: Jesus was Good in all and every way.

So to draw a reasonable conclusion...
Only GOD IS good!
Jesus is good!

Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus must be God (God in the flesh).

Many people miss this simple point that Jesus gives just like the man asking the question did.

Look at the next thing Jesus said; "give up all your riches and follow me".
If the man knew who Jesus really was, and not regarded him as just a good teacher it's reasonable to assume than the man might have been more inclined to do what Jesus was suggested.

 

[Bro_Sam]

The main thing that I struggle with is the acts in the Old Testament - the stoning, the murder etc. How could God have condoned that?

I do believe in Jesus and what he came to earth to do, and I know that with Him came the New Testament, but we can't ignore the OT. I find it difficult to accept and even explain to people why I would worship a God, who allowed, or even instructed for people to be killed. I guess Leviticus is a good example of what I mean.

'Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed' (Leviticus 20:9)

'If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die'. (Leviticus 20:10).

'Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community'. (Leviticus 24:14-16)

I know Jesus is good, but the OT confuses me. Why would the God who sent Jesus to save us, the good God who loves us, allow and instruct people to kill and murder others?

Why would you not expect a Holy and Righteous and Just God to punish sinners?

 

[S.O.C]

quickly . Leviticus are rules , earthly rules. we're heavenly beings too . so we supersede the rules . this is fact we often forget . it says the son of man can forgive sin .The son of man is bar nhas in my native tongue which is Semitic .the son of man means the forgot . man means to forget . it means we forget that we are heavenly beings . so you remmber that you are heavenly beings and you don't have to worry about earthly rules

what we are subject to is the LAW . Jesus came to complete the law . so concentrate on Jesus because his teachings speak to the heavenly nature of us which is the primary one.

now why would a powerful god do so and so. the answer is obvious. so he can show you that he is powerful enough to defeat death . isn't death the ultimate challenge. well there you have it . he beat it and not only that he beat it as a man and he says you too can.

anyways it's not rational to speak of god as all powerful. what you can say is that god is holy . holy mean kadaosh which means other . he is other than anything you can think up or imagine .

there is this incident in the bible where a man asks Jesus what he must do to earn eternal life and jesus tells him the only good one is god .if you are going to ask for something ask for something befitting a god to give to you. . what the man should have asked for is god and not eternal life because the only gift worthy of a god to give is himself and to ask for anything less than that is an insult to god because it is saying he is cheap..god is not cheap. when he gives he gives the ultimate gift which is himself.

.

 

[Bro_Sam]

quickly . Leviticus are rules , earthly rules. we're heavenly beings too . so we supersede the rules.

this is fact we often forget. it says the son of man can forgive sin .The son of man is bar nhas in my native tongue which is Semitic .the son of man means the forgot . man means to forget . it means we forget that we are heavenly beings . so you remmber that you are heavenly beings and you don't have to worry about earthly rules

what we are subject to is the LAW . Jesus came to complete the law . so concentrate on Jesus because his teachings speak to the heavenly nature of us which is the primary one.

now why would a powerful god do so and so. the answer is obvious. so he can show you that he is powerful enough to defeat death . isn't death the ultimate challenge. well there you have it . he beat it and not only that he beat it as a man and he says you too can.

anyways it's not rational to speak of god as all powerful. what you can say is that god is holy . holy mean kadaosh which means other . he is other than anything you can think up or imagine .

there is this incident in the bible where a man asks Jesus what he must do to earn eternal life and jesus tells him the only good one is god .if you are going to ask for something ask for something befitting a god to give to you. . what the man should have asked for is god and not eternal life because the only gift worthy of a god to give is himself and to ask for anything less than that is an insult to god because it is saying he is cheap..god is not cheap. when he gives he gives the ultimate gift which is himself.

Wow...I don't even know how to respond to this.

The last time I heard something this awful, I think I was watching Shirley Maclaine talk about one of her past lives on the Merv Griffin Show.

 

[guava]

no I do not consider the bible to be irrational. What I consider to be irrational is attempting to rationalize the bible by thinking that all powerful as in the bible is something that is to be interpreted in the context of our idea of the world we live in . to do so is bad thinking the kind that raises all those issues such as oh why if god is all powerful he let Jesus hang in the cross and whatnot .It's the same bad thinking that made people angry at Jesus and want to crucify him for claiming to be the son of god .

you think you know god ? you think by saying that god is all powerful that constitutes knowledge of god ? but the bible says only the son knows the father .surely then quoting the bible that it says god is all powerful is not knowledge. the problem is not with what the bible says . the problem is with you . I have no issue with the bible saying so and so . my issue is with your understanding as to what all powerful is .i am saying that your understanding is false because it is based on your idea of the world and it is so because your idea is just a description of the world that does not pertain to the unseen. the world is so and so because you tell yourself it is so and so. The day you stop telling yourself the world is such and such and the bible is such and such and you will have undone that idea of the world that's in your mind and you will begin to see the glory of god manifested in the Christ. And then maybe you will catch a glimpse of that higher power and you will know its not the power to do things but it’s the will of god that attaches itself to our world through the word .

in the incident in the bible the man asks for eternal; life. Jesus corrects him. the thing to ask for is god . still Jesus answers the man question which means Jesus accepts the man question which means Jesus is saying its okay to ask for eternal life even though the thing to ask for is god which in turn means there is an equivalency between god and eternal life which means Jesus is claiming to be god because in the bible he says he is that eternal life .

it works more or less like mathematical logic . work on it and you will get it .

the bible is a very strange book .Jesus speaks of many mansions . as we acquire more and more scientific knowledge we will be better able to decipher what it is talking about .

 

[S.O.C]

no I do not consider the bible to be irrational. What I consider to be irrational is attempting to rationalize the bible by thinking that all powerful as in the bible is something that is to be interpreted in the context of our ida of the world we live in . to do so is bad thinking the kind that raises all those issues such as oh why if god is all powerful he let Jesus hang in the cross and whatnot .It's the same bad thinking that made people angry at Jesus and want to crucify him for claiming to be the son of god .

you think you know god ? you think by saying that god is all powerful that constitutes knowledge of god ? but the bible says only the son knows the father .surely then quoting the bible that it says god is all powerful is not knowledge. the problem is not with what the bible says . the problem is with you . I have no issue with the bible saying so and so . my issue is with your understanding as to what all powerful is .i am saying that your understanding is false because it is based on your idea of the world and it is so because your idea is just a description of the world that does not pertain to the unseen. the world is so and so because you tell yourself it is so and so. The day you stop telling yourself the world is such and such and the bible is such and such and you will have undone that idea of the world that's in your mind and you will begin to see the glory of god manifested in the Christ. And then maybe you will catch a glimpse of that higher power and you will know its not the power to do things but it’s the will of god that attaches itself to our world through the word .

in the incident in the bible the man asks for eternal; life. Jesus corrects him. the thing to ask for is god . still Jesus answers the man question which means Jesus accepts the man question which means Jesus is saying its okay to ask for eternal life even though the thing to ask for is god which in turn means there is an equivalency between god and eternal life which means Jesus is claiming to be god because in the bible he says he is that eternal life .

it works more or less like mathematical logic . work on it and you will get it .

the bible is a very strange book .Jesus speaks of many mansions . as we acquire more and more scientific knowledge we will be better able to decipher what it is talking about .

"POWER" in its most pure sense of the word is God! Power originates from God, it is subject to the authority of God, and all power has its origins in God. True, no one other than God can know 'Absolute Power'. But, that does not mean that I can not have an understanding of what absolute power could be like. The bible states that there is power in the Holy Spirit, and when ever believer is transformed by the Holy Spirit that believer has power to resist the temptation of SIN. So we can conceive gradations of power and we are self are not devoid of power, even the power from the Holy Spirit which is power given to us by God.

Jesus and the answer given by Jesus are not a math equation, and the Bible is confusing to those whom the Holy Spirit has not given the "POWER" of understanding!

 

[guava]

god is god .

god is power is an idolatrous thing to say .

the holy spirit is not the holy power . spirit gives spirit not power .

an act of power is not an act of spirit . because an act of power needs thinking and wishing . an act of the spirit is a very special thing .its happens mysteriously. An act of the spirit turns defeat into victory . it has to do with impossible feats that defy power . . power is something that has to be tuned and controlled . you yourself said god has authority over power . the spirit is not a force or power . it’s a way to get through things . a man might have power yet he might not have spirit.

The understanding of the bible has nothing to do with power. It has to do with seeing . in genesis its says god SAW it was good . so temper your spirit and you might see.

 

[Cain Spencer]

god is god .

god is power is an idolatrous thing to say .

the holy spirit is not the holy power . spirit gives spirit not power .

an act of power is not an act of spirit . because an act of power needs thinking and wishing . an act of the spirit is a very special thing .its happens mysteriously. An act of the spirit turns defeat into victory . it has to do with impossible feats that defy power . . power is something that has to be tuned and controlled . you yourself said god has authority over power . the spirit is not a force or power . it’s a way to get through things . a man might have power yet he might not have spirit.

The understanding of the bible has nothing to do with power. It has to do with seeing . in genesis its says god SAW it was good . so temper your spirit and you might see.

Guava, what church do you attend? I want to know because your preaching is just simply amazing.

 

[ittarter]

Well said, Guava.

 

[S.O.C]

god is god .

god is power is an idolatrous thing to say .

the holy spirit is not the holy power . spirit gives spirit not power .

an act of power is not an act of spirit . because an act of power needs thinking and wishing . an act of the spirit is a very special thing .its happens mysteriously. An act of the spirit turns defeat into victory . it has to do with impossible feats that defy power . . power is something that has to be tuned and controlled . you yourself said god has authority over power . the spirit is not a force or power . it’s a way to get through things . a man might have power yet he might not have spirit.

The understanding of the bible has nothing to do with power. It has to do with seeing . in genesis its says god SAW it was good . so temper your spirit and you might see.

SERIOUSELY?

Have you ever read the book of ACT or ROMANS?

You really believe that the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the power of GOD. Prove it by scripture than and while your at it try to explain how these verses from the Holy Bible that talk about the power of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the power of GOD or the Holy Spirit having Power!

"who was appointed the Son-of-God-in-power according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord"...Rom 1:4.

"Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you believe in him, so that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit"...Rom 15:13.

"saying, “Give me this power too, so that everyone I place my hands on may receive the Holy Spirit"...Act 8:19.

"while God confirmed their witness with signs and wonders and various miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will"...Heb 2:4.

"And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased"...Luk 3:22

FACT: Jesus did not perform ANY miracles until after Jesus was baptized with the Holy Spirit.

FACT: The Apostles of Jesus had specific instructions not to go preaching Gospel until after they received the Holy Spirit!

Going back to your original statement concerning any talk about God being an All Powerful God, which you say is “irrational” speech because we do not know God as you put it when quoted from scripture “only the Son can know the Father”, Let’s look at the whole verse of scripture to see what is really there.

"All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him"…Luk 10:22

Well, Jesus disciples knew Jesus very well, so why would the verse say no one knows the Son except God? Again, Jesus is stressing there is a unique unity between the Father and the Son. Many would not believe in Jesus therefore, they truely do not know the father. Exactly how does Jesus reveal the Father to mankind? Through the power of the Holy Spirit which gives the mind understanding about God. Jesus, told his followers that if they had faith the size of a mustard seed they could command a tree to up root itself and plant itself in the water. Was Jesus giving his followers false hope? or do we as follower have the power to overcome spiritual forces that seek to destroy the believer. If the bible is true than we do through the power of the Holy Spirit.

I don’t want to discourage anyone who is genuinely trying to seek the truth but I can not relate to your theology either.

So, please show me where in scripture it says the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the power of God or that we as believers can not speak rationally about God when any believer makes a statement like “God is All Powerful”.

Because, if what you claim is true than nothing we speak about God would be intelligible (i.e.. Holy God, Righteous God, Just God and etc..) since no human being is completely; Holy, Righteous, Just, and etc.. Therefore how can any beliver know God at all. That is not what the Bible teaches!

 

[S.O.C]

Wow...I don't even know how to respond to this.

The last time I heard something this awful, I think I was watching Shirley Maclaine talk about one of her past lives on the Merv Griffin Show.

Like way out in left field without a glove!

 

[S.O.C]

Guava, what church do you attend? I want to know because your preaching is just simply amazing.

I agree, what church?

 

[guava]

Soc , please take it easy on me. I'm a simple desert nomad, not someone as learned as you. You have read a lot of the bible. I read one word from the bible and I'm stuck forever. You are way ahead of me. I'm still in kinder garden compared to you. i was given a bible by a missionary .When I read the bible I read the words of my forefathers. That is my church. The forefathers spirits echo from centuries past to me.


There is no "can". It says only the son who was in the bosom of the father knows the father.. It does not say only the son "can" know the father.

Now the issue here is in the word "know". In my language which is a Semitic language there are two ways you can process verbs to get at their meaning. An older method which is very difficult and was used by the olden prodigies of the language .the method is involved and ambiguous. There is another method, a modern one, which is easier and which I can handle. Briefly what you do is something we call weighs the verbs. The verb is first reduced to its three letters basic form.. Virtually all verbs can be reduced that way. Then the verb is measured against the verb to "do" which takes several meanings depending on the way you weight that verb. . when I apply this modern from of processing the verb what I get is that the knowledge the verse in the bible is talking about is inborn in the son. So it is not something that is given or shared. Its something that came out of nothing. it is something that is found in the son. So you see there is no can in it. There is only found in it . So you be very careful soc because evil was found in Satan. That's how it works. Things are found. Evil and good are found in one.

The "know" the bible is talking about is not the "know" you're thinking. Its not about for example knowing how to fix a car or do things or figure out how to do things or solve problems. It has to do with the unseen. It is not thinking. It is an act. It’s a happening. Its is a state of affairs .it is the word having a being. . Your word is a word without a being. To know god is a state of being.and you do not have that knowledge . maybe after you die you will. Just have faith you will. I don't know how you are going to have that because Jesus says you don't even have as much as mustard seed. But then again he says with god everything is possible.

In Babylon the seraph says to the prophet Yahweh is holy holy. So there you have it . God is other other. So its best not to talk too much about god and say things like he is all powerful and whatnot because frankly anything you say about him doesn't approach him. all you are doing is equating him with your own perception of what is all powerful which is idolatry.You speak about power to me . you quote the bible and you show me the word . You mention power so many times but you do not say what it is. are we talking words. if so then what? then idolatry.your word is not god.. they are your thoughts . your idea of the world.

In job I guess that’s one place in the bible where you might try to gain an insight into power. I mean if you insist on using your mental faculties to discern things. the glory of god speaks in the end and it speaks of the power . so god can do this and can do that and job can't. The wind blew up the house. The roof came tumbling down on his kids. The enemy killed his servants and took his cattle. so the idea I suppose you should build a strong house so the wind doesn't blow it away. But if I use the spirit I do not see power. What I see is that behemoth is in the other world and not of our world . in that world job sons who were killed are well and alive and that’s why job was satisfied in the end . Job says he has been shown things by the glory of god .again it's about seeing. but people think it's about power so they say job wasn't answered and god is tyrant. who can do what he likes . Job received a gift like no man has received before the advent of Jesus. He was made to see. ..

a man with power carries a heavy terrible burden. Such a man thinks he is invincible and before you know it that power will have consumed him and turned him into a cruel capricious man.. Power is an enemy, the worst kind. The son of god is appointed in power because he is the son of god. He can wield that power and not be defeated by it. So yes of course you need the Holy Spirit before you can handle that power I suppose..

Miracles do not make believers. It's the other way around. its believers who make believers. The significance is not in the miracles. Or when he did them. Jesus took on Satan and defeated him. the test Satan presented is not passable by any man. The first was the economical test . no man has hitherto been able to pass that . the second is the political . no man that I know of did manage that either . the third is the spiritual.. forget about that . it's not passable. Jesus went toe to toe with Satan and defeated him. but for us, for you and me the only way to pass the test is by not taking it. . do not take that test soc. No miracles will help you.

The son of god. what is that ? can you see

Hey soc I'm just talking. Just want to give you the way an ancient mind set might see differently. You and I come from different worlds.maybe if i talk to you , and you will change . then maybe instead of trying to conceive the inconceivable you will instead use the inconceivable to do wonderful acts.

 

[.Iona.]

Why would you not expect a Holy and Righteous and Just God to punish sinners?

Because you cannot claim to love someone, then the next minute throw them into Hell to burn for eternity. That goes beyond 'Just'.

People compare God to our birth fathers - I know for sure that I dad would love me regardless and would never throw me into a tortuous place.

 

[addo]

Because you cannot claim to love someone, then the next minute throw them into Hell to burn for eternity. That goes beyond 'Just'.

People compare God to our birth fathers - I know for sure that I dad would love me regardless and would never throw me into a tortuous place.

But 'dad' (God) is not only 'dad' but He is also Judge. His duty as a dad is to love, but what about His duty as a judge?