The 'evil' in the Old Testament

[daydreamergurl15]

You know, when I was a younger Christian, I remember asking myself how was God in the Old Testament? I've never thought to myself, "if God is a loving God why would He A, B, or C" because I've always believed God's judgment to be righteous but I always wanted to know why did God punish the people in the OT so much, then I read the OT and the answers were clear. And then I rejoiced because I found out that our God is a patient God...because if I was God and I had to lead the children of Israel and all their enemies around them, I'm sure there would be more than one flood.

I don't know if you left Christianity all together or what, but before you completely step out of it, I implore you to really go back and look at the OT and see WHY did God punish people in the OT, you'll find out that those people weren't all innocent and sweet as some people seem to think--as if God went around and punish all sweet and innocent people just because--, my goodness, these guys were burning and eating their kids and fell into total depravity...look at what they did to the Prophets. Sometimes, I think we have to take a step back and try and look at things from God's perspective. We want to say that a "Loving God wouldn't send innocent people to be killed" and yet Our Loving God sent His innocent Son to be killed for our sins, so try not to look at what God does through human understanding--and I know that is virtually impossible because we are humans--but sometimes, we just have to understand that in God's infinite wisdom, He knew exactly what was needed to be done for His will to continue.

Also, try not to think of death as the END, when we speak about God. Who is dead to God? Does God see death as we see death? There are so many things that we don't know because we cannot truly comprehend all of God and what He does, but known this, the answers that are troubling you will be solved once you take the time out and truly read those scriptures again and again and allow the Holy Spirit to do the interpreting for you.

God bless.

 

[plmarquette]

society has mellowed quite a bit in 4000 years....
God had to address man, as he was adressed by other men...perhaps...

Men have a free will, a choice, this is the punishement for this crime...oops
I need a do-over ... didn't happen then...

 

[Hairy Tic]

Why do you say "it's not rational to speak of God as all powerful"? Does not the Bible say God is all powerful! Would you consider the Bible irrational?

The passage about eternal salvation is a rhetorical answer in the form of a question by Jesus, ment to illustrate to the man Jesus and God are one. "WHY DO YOU CALL ME GOOD? no one is good save GOD alone".

Fact: Jesus was Good in all and every way.

So to draw a reasonable conclusion...
Only GOD IS good!
Jesus is good!

Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus must be God (God in the flesh).

Many people miss this simple point that Jesus gives just like the man asking the question did.

Look at the next thing Jesus said; "give up all your riches and follow me".
If the man knew who Jesus really was, and not regarded him as just a good teacher it's reasonable to assume than the man might have been more inclined to do what Jesus was suggested.

## Some would say, not without a lot of justification, that Jesus ought not to be called good, unless He gives evidence of being good. So where is the evidence ? But the evidence of His lack of interest in the world is never-ending...

It is wrong to give God a free pass - if He's so wonderful, He doesn't need one. We do not trust men whose words are contradicted by their deeds - far less ought we to trust God. What answer to this can there be ? It's unanswerable.

 

[Lisa S.]

Ahhh...the old problem of "evil". I've read many explanations...all of them lacking somewhat. I will say this...you'll have to accept one of the many explanations and move on eventually because the truth is...WE DON'T KNOW. Everyone just self-deludes into thinking they know. I don't know. But...I found one VERY interesting explanation that I find absolutely fascinating. It is put forth in a book called 'Jehovah Unmasked'. I bought mine on Amazon. I'm not saying the author is correct...because again...I don't know. But...I'd say his explanation (which really isn't his) is entirely possible.

CC

I'm going to look for that book. I've always just thought that God cannot stand sin (even to the point that Jesus felt his separation from God while on the cross carrying our sin.)

And I've always thought further, that when that wrath was satisfied by Jesus death (and the spotless sacrifice was slain), that God's wrath was appeased. So, I've always thought that while the God of the Old and the New Testaments were the same God, that we are now dealing with a God whose wrath has been quenched. In the OT, a spotless sacrifice had not yet been made - so the laws were really harsh, and sinful man had to be dealt with immediately.

Am definitely going to pursue the book you mentioned.

 

[Lisa S.]

You know, when I was a younger Christian, I remember asking myself how was God in the Old Testament? I've never thought to myself, "if God is a loving God why would He A, B, or C" because I've always believed God's judgment to be righteous but I always wanted to know why did God punish the people in the OT so much, then I read the OT and the answers were clear. And then I rejoiced because I found out that our God is a patient God...because if I was God and I had to lead the children of Israel and all their enemies around them, I'm sure there would be more than one flood.

Hi Daydreamer,

God did consider wiping everyone out again, with just the exception of Moses, didn't he? And then didn't Moses plead the case of the rest of the Israelites and God relent? I always found the love of Moses to be kind of incredible because those Israelites were an unruly, unappreciative bunch of folks - much like all of us. I'd think he (Moses) would have been fed up with all of them.

 

[Hairy Tic]

God doesn't care about your personal goodness. It isn't good enough.
Your personal goodness is about as precious as used toilet paper to Him.
He wants you to trust in Him, not be self-righteous.

## It sounds as if we are about as valuable as what goes onto the paper LOL.

But is it our fault, if "[our] personal goodness...isn't good enough" ? We didn't ask to exist. So how is it fair of God to throw a wobbly, as it were, now that we do ? From what you say, creating us sounds like God's version of self-harm. He sounds quite tremendously dysfunctional, and that is putting it nicely.

Why should we trust something that hates us for existing ?

 

[Hairy Tic]

Hi Daydreamer,

God did consider wiping everyone out again, with just the exception of Moses, didn't he? And then didn't Moses plead the case of the rest of the Israelites and God relent? I always found the love of Moses to be kind of incredible because those Israelites were an unruly, unappreciative bunch of folks - much like all of us. I'd think he (Moses) would have been fed up with all of them.

## I find the amazing thing to be the self-sacrifice of Moses - he was being offered the opportunity to be a second Abraham, but he preferred the good of his people to his own glory. Now that is love. IMO, he is greater than any other character in the Bible, with the possible exception of Mary.

Moses is all the greater because he had far less to go on than Christians & Jews - yet he dwarfs those who have far more advantages.

 

[Algol Omega]

You would rather a Puppet Master God that owned us like puppies that grow into pet dogs?



Jesus didn't. Good, bad, or the ugly contained in it. And yet He is so beautiful. Isn't He?



Leviticus is about building a holy and righteous nation of people. Notice how mankind is? Why does a person do a wicked thing, and then desire to make people either allow them to continue their wickedness OR, try to make others engage in wickedness? Would there be child porn if we stoned tp death those that "enjoyed" child porn and those that "enjoyed" producing it? There would be a lot less child victims in this world if we rid this evil from the land right?



Reality can be confusing. (Study the O.J. Simpson trial.) The Old Testament is amazing as a call to righteousness of a holy people and then lists how many times people screwed that up. And WILL continue to screw it up.

Like it or not, the Old Testament presents what is true human nature without regard to some feelings getting hurt. How would you like to be a "hero" in the Bible when some pretty nasty aspects of your life are on display until the world comes to and end? The Bible reads as truth because of the grueling nature of its reporting.



Read Pslam 51.

Why is there SO MUCH evil in this world? Why isn't there almost no evil at all?

Notice that even the people of God are on display as being evil many, many times? And yet hope and forgiveness is offered many more times again. So, where is the bad message in the Old Testament? The entire collection of books known as the Old Testament holds out hope and "salvation" against all odds. Against all provable odds showing that mankind is evil through and through. What country on earth is holy and righteous after all this time of man struggling through one genocidal war after another?

Now, compare that to what God should really do to get rid of all of that evil once and for all, once again . . . and see that the message and the implementation of the goodness and righteousness of God "in the Bible" is that ALL who call on the Name of the Lord (and their household) will be saved anyway.

The message of the Bible is one not hidden under lies or a sales pitch. It is proclaimed through the unrighteousness of mankind and the Gift that God holds out to us UN-deserved and UN-earned through God's righteousness for "His Namesake."

Try to see it this way. The Bible is a recording of the DNA it took to build the Body of Christ.

With nothing but the way, the truth and the life presented honestly.

Now, look in the mirror.

And praise God through the storm.

Really, the answer to the thread was found on the first page, this above quote.

## It sounds as if we are about as valuable as what goes onto the paper LOL.

But is it our fault, if "[our] personal goodness...isn't good enough" ? We didn't ask to exist. So how is it fair of God to throw a wobbly, as it were, now that we do ? From what you say, creating us sounds like God's version of self-harm. He sounds quite tremendously dysfunctional, and that is putting it nicely.

Why should we trust something that hates us for existing ?

That's overly simplistic of you; quite naive I might add. Nowhere does the Bible, anyways, say that God hates you for just existing.

 

[Hairy Tic]

Really, the answer to the thread was found on the first page, this above quote.



That's overly simplistic of you; quite naive I might add. Nowhere does the Bible, anyways, say that God hates you for just existing.

## Well, to judge by the comments of the OP, God does precisely that. Have you missed all the times that posters of a certain turn of mind emphasise the hatred of God for whatever/whoever-it-may-be ? It's sick, & sickening. There is something diseased in any form of religion that thinks it glorifies God by puking on His creatures, that thinks His righteousness is vindicated by proving Him to be a liar & cheat & sadist. That unholy bully is not the God of Jesus Christ, & certainly isn't mine.

If some people insist on worshipping evil & filth, that is their choice

 

[Newman02]

## Some would say, not without a lot of justification, that Jesus ought not to be called good, unless He gives evidence of being good. So where is the evidence ? But the evidence of His lack of interest in the world is never-ending...

It is wrong to give God a free pass - if He's so wonderful, He doesn't need one. We do not trust men whose words are contradicted by their deeds - far less ought we to trust God. What answer to this can there be ? It's unanswerable.

Nowhere in the bible does God say I will prove myshelf and his ability to govern his creation before he expects us to trust and obey him.
Didn't Jesus say in Matt 18/3:4 Unless you change and become like little children you will never enter the kingdom of God. Therefore whoever HUMBLES himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Wasn't it the same thing that he desired for Adm and Eve to simply trust and obey him? And we all know how that ended up.And are we any different today with our limited finite minds always questioning the character of the giver of all good things. As Elihu put it in JOB 34/14:15 if it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, all mankind would perish together.And yet he has proven himself to us in ways that blow our minds away by what he did on the cross for us and making us sons of God.IS THAT NOT ENOUGH !
Really how long have we been around or how deep is our understanding compared to the one who knows the hearts of men better than we know ourselves, that we question is righteousness?

The bible declare that God is light and in him there is no darkness at all, and he is the same yesterday, today and forever.He is the same God as he was in the old testament as in the new and today.

The requirements of God have not changed ! THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. Habakkuk 2/4 Romans 1/17.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Hi Daydreamer,

God did consider wiping everyone out again, with just the exception of Moses, didn't he? And then didn't Moses plead the case of the rest of the Israelites and God relent? I always found the love of Moses to be kind of incredible because those Israelites were an unruly, unappreciative bunch of folks - much like all of us. I'd think he (Moses) would have been fed up with all of them.

What amazed me most about Moses is that he made a plea to God to not destroy the Israelites when God was fed up with them....but then Moses was so fed up with the Israelites that he struck the rock (I believe it was striking the rock the 2nd time), disobeying God and his punishment was not being able to set foot in the promise land.

Now, I believe our God is just but I can't help feel sorry for Moses for what he did. Yes, He disobeyed God so I can't complain and the Israelites that Moses got so fed up with did die out before they could enter the promise land but again it's just one of those things. But hey, Moses is with God so I don't really feel bad for him, plus he got to see God, so I'm sorta jealous.

 

[.Iona.]

Could someone please close this thread? Thanks!

 

[addo]

Have you informed a moderator? It would be faster that way, in my humble opinion.

 

[.Iona.]

I have done, yes.

 

[andreha]

Thread closed as per OP request.