THE EVANGELICAL CHURCH IS BREAKING APART Christians must reclaim Jesus from his church

[public hermit]

This belongs in the American Politics forum, but if it needs to be moved, I'm indifferent. The article is dated but the problem ain't.

The basic argument is that many evangelicals have embraced their politics with religious fervor and have ditched the teachings of Jesus. And, perhaps it's an issue of catechism, i.e. their catechesis comes from media. Here are some lines from the article:

The root of the discord lies in the fact that many Christians have embraced the worst aspects of our culture and our politics. When the Christian faith is politicized, churches become repositories not of grace but of grievances, places where tribal identities are reinforced, where fears are nurtured, and where aggression and nastiness are sacralized.

The first step was the cultivation of the idea within the religious right that certain political positions were deeply Christian

“When Trump was able to add open hatred and resentments to the political-religious stance of ‘true believers,’ it crossed a line,” Marsden said. “Tribal instincts seem to have become overwhelming.”

“What we’re seeing is massive discipleship failure caused by massive catechesis failure,” James Ernest

Many Christians, though, are disinclined to heed calls for civility. They feel that everything they value is under assault, and that they need to fight to protect it

Fear has played a central role in the explosion of conflict within American evangelical churches

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/evangelical-trump-christians-politics/620469/

Discuss.

 

[d taylor]

_​

The current church (evangelical or whoever) does not have a chance, it can not even get the simple message of how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life correct.

 

[FireDragon76]

This belongs in the American Politics forum, but if it needs to be moved, I'm indifferent. The article is dated but the problem ain't.

The basic argument is that many evangelicals have embraced their politics with religious fervor and have ditched the teachings of Jesus. And, perhaps it's an issue of catechism, i.e. their catechesis comes from media. Here are some lines from the article:

The root of the discord lies in the fact that many Christians have embraced the worst aspects of our culture and our politics. When the Christian faith is politicized, churches become repositories not of grace but of grievances, places where tribal identities are reinforced, where fears are nurtured, and where aggression and nastiness are sacralized.

The first step was the cultivation of the idea within the religious right that certain political positions were deeply Christian

“When Trump was able to add open hatred and resentments to the political-religious stance of ‘true believers,’ it crossed a line,” Marsden said. “Tribal instincts seem to have become overwhelming.”

“What we’re seeing is massive discipleship failure caused by massive catechesis failure,” James Ernest

Many Christians, though, are disinclined to heed calls for civility. They feel that everything they value is under assault, and that they need to fight to protect it

Fear has played a central role in the explosion of conflict within American evangelical churches

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/evangelical-trump-christians-politics/620469/

Discuss.

Tim Keller talked about this a few months ago. He said he blamed alot of the 1980's and 1990's rhetoric of demonization of gays for opening the door to a culture of fear.

 

[hedrick]

I see no evidence that it is breaking apart. However I see plenty of evidence that the younger generation is identifying Christianity as a whole with what you describe, and recoiling.

 

[public hermit]

_​

The current church (evangelical or whoever) does not have a chance, it can not even get the simple message of how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life correct.

Because they seem to worship their political position and its representative, right? I mean, in practice.

 

[hedrick]

Tim Keller talked about this a few months ago. He said he blamed alot of the 1980's and 1990's rhetoric of demonization of gays for opening the door to a culture of fear.

I think Keller is a good guy. But he’s part of a church that does exactly that. He’s doing his best to provide a sane version of conservative Christianity. I just don’t think it’s actually possible.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think Keller is a good guy. But he’s part of a church that does exactly that. He’s doing his best to provide a sane version of conservative Christianity. I just don’t think it’s actually possible.

He operates in a city where religious fundamentalism and extremism is a very tough sell, so I think he has some good insights, even if as you say, he's basically constrained by his church's orthodoxy.

I don't think a sane version of conservative Christianity is possible anymore, either. That's one difference I had with my pastor. He's alot like Keller, more liberal on that particular issue, but basically still hoping that conservative/moderate Evangelicalism can be salvaged without some serious deconstruction.

 

[public hermit]

I see no evidence that it is breaking apart. However I see plenty of evidence that the younger generation is identifying Christianity as a whole with what you describe, and recoiling.

Did you read the article and the examples of cadres of Trumpian neophytes spreading lies to keep the "woke" out of church leadership. You're PCUSA, so it might not be your experience. Look at how the SBC treated Russell Moore.

 

[BobRyan]

The first step was the cultivation of the idea within the religious right that certain political positions were deeply Christian

The problem started over 150 years ago when it was thought that Christian - Biblical teaching was merely "political".


For example slavery - the value of human life. Well the Bible defines it - not politics. The Bible says all humans are the family of Adam and Adam was created by God - as the children of God and we are to "love our neighbor as ourselves" as one of the top two commands.

Same could be said about abortion where politics tries to hijack a Biblical moral doctrine about the value of human life.

Same could be said about marriage - where politics tries to hijack a Biblical moral doctrine.

Same could be said about gender created in Gen 1` and 2 -- where politics tries to hijack a Biblical moral doctrine.

What "came first" in those instances was not democrat vs republican political wrangling. What came first in those examples was the Word of God taking a position on a moral issue.

 

[FireDragon76]

Did you read the article and the examples of cadres of Trumpian neophytes spreading lies to keep the "woke" out of church leadership. You're PCUSA, so it might not be your experience. Look at how the SBC treated Russell Moore.

Purge and breakup aren't the same thing.

A better analogy might be a swan song.

 

[d taylor]

Because they seem to worship their political position and its representative, right? I mean, in practice.

That is part of it they have really become political.

But i kind of see it as, not that becoming political has caused them to go off message.

But more so, they were off message, which has cause them to focus or turn their attention toward politics. It seems like for some odd reason they are seeking truth, in politics.

For many i am not sure why, they want to pursue this idea that america is a christian nation. Instead of realizing that america is a country, who has christians as its citizens.

 

[public hermit]

Purge and breakup aren't the same thing.

A better analogy might be a swan song.

That's just wishful thinking lol.

 

[FireDragon76]

The problem started over 150 years ago when it was thought that Christian - Biblical teaching was merely "political".

150 years ago people were debating the historicity of the Bible, not Christian morality.

 

[public hermit]

more so, they were off message, which has cause them to focus or turn their attention toward politics. It seems like for some odd reason they are seeking truth, in politics

I think that might be right and pretty much the point of the article. No catechism, then they get it from elsewhere, i.e. political pundits.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's just wishful thinking lol.

I don't think so. Churches are losing alot of young people.

 

[public hermit]

I don't think so. Churches are losing alot of young people.

That's true, but it will be some time for the old guard to die out.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think that might be right and pretty much the point of the article. No catechism, then they get it from elsewhere, i.e. political pundits.

Catechism would involve admitting discerning truth is more complicated than "the Bible said it, that settles it", because honestly most people, when they really read and study the Bible, find more questions than answers. Religious fundamentalists have had to swallow the whole package, poison pill and all.

 

[childeye 2]

This belongs in the American Politics forum, but if it needs to be moved, I'm indifferent. The article is dated but the problem ain't.

The basic argument is that many evangelicals have embraced their politics with religious fervor and have ditched the teachings of Jesus. And, perhaps it's an issue of catechism, i.e. their catechesis comes from media. Here are some lines from the article:

The root of the discord lies in the fact that many Christians have embraced the worst aspects of our culture and our politics. When the Christian faith is politicized, churches become repositories not of grace but of grievances, places where tribal identities are reinforced, where fears are nurtured, and where aggression and nastiness are sacralized.

The first step was the cultivation of the idea within the religious right that certain political positions were deeply Christian

“When Trump was able to add open hatred and resentments to the political-religious stance of ‘true believers,’ it crossed a line,” Marsden said. “Tribal instincts seem to have become overwhelming.”

“What we’re seeing is massive discipleship failure caused by massive catechesis failure,” James Ernest

Many Christians, though, are disinclined to heed calls for civility. They feel that everything they value is under assault, and that they need to fight to protect it

Fear has played a central role in the explosion of conflict within American evangelical churches

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/evangelical-trump-christians-politics/620469/

Discuss.

The demagoguery of political rhetoric clearly leads people away from the Spirit of Christ. But I tend to see that as something that's supposed to happen in terms of separating the wheat from the chaff.

 

[FireDragon76]

The demagoguery of political rhetoric clearly leads people away from the Spirit of Christ. But I tend to see that as something that's supposed to happen in terms of separating the wheat from the chaff.

If I were a Christian... I'd have to believe the road to Heaven is narrow and the road is Hell is a multi-lane expressway filled with cars with fish decals on the back.

 

[public hermit]

Catechism would involve admitting discerning truth is more complicated than "the Bible said it, that settles it", because honestly most people, when they really read and study the Bible, find more questions than answers. Religious fundamentalists have had to swallow the whole package, poison pill and all.

Again, I agree. I think the idea of catechism (as it comes across in the article), if done properly, does not teach biblical inerrancy but how to follow Christ and love as we have been loved. It's a novel idea among many Christians, but there is no better time to start than now.