I think that we all would agree that the ends don't justify the means, but do the ends justify the reasons? If I do something good by good means for self serving reasons, is it inherently bad spiritually speaking? Does doing the right thing for the wrong motives please or displease the LORD?
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The ends don't justify the means, BUT....
- Thread starter iambeeman
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God cares about the condition of our hearts not about the action or the end result of the action whether good or bad. If you do something "good" and "goodness" is the result of that action yet it had selfish motives from the beginning then it really doesn't matter. Our only master should be God and when we give in to selfish motives then we are putting ourselves above God despite what it may look like to other people. This is a sin and it only separates us from God.
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:12 "I have the right to do anything, you saybut not everything is beneficial. I have the right to do anythingbut I will not be mastered by anything." Basically we are free to do the things we enjoy and desire to do but do not allow those things to become your master even if it is just for a fleeting moment.
However we are not perfect and it is next to impossible to not think about "what's in it for us" when we do something. It is not necessarily wrong to be aware of what we will get out of it but we cannot let it dictate our motives. Our actions and motives simply need to be defined through God first and whatever happens to us out of it happens but it is the who we are seeking first that God really cares about.
"...seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you..."
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:12 "I have the right to do anything, you saybut not everything is beneficial. I have the right to do anythingbut I will not be mastered by anything." Basically we are free to do the things we enjoy and desire to do but do not allow those things to become your master even if it is just for a fleeting moment.
However we are not perfect and it is next to impossible to not think about "what's in it for us" when we do something. It is not necessarily wrong to be aware of what we will get out of it but we cannot let it dictate our motives. Our actions and motives simply need to be defined through God first and whatever happens to us out of it happens but it is the who we are seeking first that God really cares about.
"...seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you..."
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grasping the after wind
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I may agree with you that the ends do not justify the means but I don't think you can say that we would all agree to that. I couldn't think of anything that would fit your description could you give some example(s). I find it hard to imagine doing good by good means without meaning well.
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wayseer
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Can we turn your question on its head and ask - if I do bad things but with good results does the end justify the means?
Integrity starts with one own mind. If I wish to maintain any integrity between what I speak and what I do then it seems that my actions and speech must carry some continuity.
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agua
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Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.
(Php 2:1-3 NKJV)
(Php 2:1-3 NKJV)
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Good answer.
Examples:
1 - A surgeon who pioneers a new technique not to help hi patents but for the accolades of his fellow doctors
2 - A man going on a mission trip not to help struggling people but to have the experience
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grasping the after wind
That's grasping after the wind
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I believe it says SOMEWHERE in the bible that all our good deeds are rubbish, without them being done for god. obviously i'm paraphrasing...sorta
God, please. BTW there are too many people that do not know that it is sort of not sorta and too many people that don't know that it is not must of but must have or should of and not should have.
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You know I'm not sure why I asked this, I should know this. But my wife and I have been going through ALOT of changes in the past year. We moved into an old fixer-upper house, sold off a bunch of the farm and had to set up a the remaining farm at our new place, and oh despite what the doctors told us my wife can get pregnant so we're having our first child in about a month. As a result of all this money has become tight and though I love the LORD, I have to think when doing things "how will this help our situation". And this makes me feel selfish. I realise that it's not really selfish, it just doesn't feel like it.
Do not misunderstand all the changes are blessings, but they can get stressful.
Do not misunderstand all the changes are blessings, but they can get stressful.
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grasping the after wind
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Congratulations on the first child. If my experience is any good you will be greatly blessed by this new member of your family. Just remember to take no thought for tomorrow for the evils of the day are sufficient.
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Steven Knoll
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I don't think that there's anything wrong with following God because I want to go to heaven, and I don't think that there's anything wrong with loving people and serving them because it makes me happy. It always makes me happy (end) to follow the commandments (means).
What you have to remember is that the action (means) can also be considered an end on a smaller scale.
What you have to remember is that the action (means) can also be considered an end on a smaller scale.
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Isserus
Old Boy
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SORTA is short for sort of, look it up. Don't pretend that the english language is better than it really is/has become. If i had said "sort a..." then that's one thing, tho clearly something other than what i did. a thank-ya, a-thankya. but i do appreciate your input...not so much to the thread itself...
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I actually don't follow Christ cuz I wanna go to heaven, I follow him because I can't imagine what my life would be like with out him. I do however like the fact of going to heaven and most of all my sins being forgiven.
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Steven Knoll
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Regardless, you don't need to feel bad because there's an end that makes you feel happy. Seek happiness, and the way to happiness just "happens" to be through Christ
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If you do something good (for others) for self-serving reasons, then it might not be totally altruistic, but you are still better off doing it than not. Don't feel like you deserve a reward for it and just let it be.
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