The End Time Puzzle

[keras]

1Thessalonians4:15-17, the resurrection/rapture event will be before His return, so that the living in Christ will not have to go through the great tribulation when God's wrath will be poured out. The resurrection/rapture event is also in 1Thessalonians5:9-11, verse 10.

You know Douggg, there is still time for you to correct your beliefs, -
1 Thess 4:15-17 says Jesus has departed from heaven and will meet His peoples in the earths atmosphere.
1 Thess 5:10 does not say when His people will be with Him forever. We get that information from Revelation 21. AFTER the Millennium.

As for your propaganda picture, it is in fact; a gross insult to the truths of Bible Prophecy.

 

[Douggg]

1 Thess 5:10 does not say when His people will be with Him forever. We get that information from Revelation 21. AFTER the Millennium.

1Thessalonians5:9 says before God's wrath is poured out.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

[keras]

The 70th week of Daniel was in the first century. There cannot be a pause in the counting of Daniel's weeks. It is a linear timeline.

Daniel 9:24 refutes you.
The 6 items listed there are not yet fulfilled. That 7 year period will take place just prior to the glorious Return, as confirmed by Revelation.
THEN, after Jusus reigns over the world, they will be.

At the end of time, Jesus will gather his followers from the earth. They will rise to meet him in the air, and they will follow him to the Mount of Olives and then onward to the Kidron Valley (Valley of Jehoshaphat) for the final judgment. Joel 3:12

You deny Jesus His reward, Psalms 2:8
You also deny the Words of Revelation 20; the thousand years after the Return, is repeated six times. THEN comes Judgment by God. Daniel 7:9-10

 

[keras]

1Thessalonians5:9 says before God's wrath is poured out.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

You are well named! Just keep digging yourself deeper into error.

Not appointed to wrath, does not say: removed from wrath. Many Prophesies tell us how the Lord will protect those who Call upon His Name, as they pass through the dramatic events yet to come.

It is sheer nonsense to think anyone can go to live in heaven before testing and Judgment.
And as for thinking you will return with Jesus, riding a white horse, that idea surpasses every fairy tale and fable ever imagined.

 

[Douggg]

Not appointed to wrath, does not say: removed from wrath. Many Prophesies tell us how the Lord will protect those who Call upon His Name, as they pass through the dramatic events yet to come.

verse 9 - not appointed to wrath
verse 10 - avoidance of God' wrath poured out during the great tribulation by the resurrection/rapture event.

salvation is two part:
1. redemption of our soul (wen we first believe in Jesus's atonement for our sins)
2. redemption of our body (the resurrection/rapture event)

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

[pc_home]

The End Time Puzzle is inevitably connected to the bright explosion of the giant planet Jupiter like a bright star in the sky – the sign of the Son of Man at the Second Coming. In an astronomical context, „Amen“ (see Isaiah 65: 16 in Hebrew – „God Amen“) or „Amon“ is the ancient Egyptian name for the planet Jupiter – the star of the rising (from the east) (cf. Isaiah 41: 2). We humans live in the center of a binary – Sun-Jupiter, star system. The sacredly written opening text of the „Gospel of John“ can be deciphered in the following astronomical sense: - „In the beginning was Jupiter („the Word“); and Jupiter was with the Sun (God); and Jupiter was the Sun (God). Jupiter was with the Sun in the beginning. All these things came into being through Jupiter; and without Jupiter nothing came into being that has come into being. In Jupiter was life and life was light for the pyramids [the „human“ made of quartz dust from the earth – the Great Pyramid of Giza, Egypt – the „man“ in red and the Temple in the city of Jerusalem, Israel – the „woman“ (see Genesis 1: 26,27; 2:7), dressed in a white dress (garment) of light; these two pyramids/mountains/trees/horns/humans were originally made in (or according to) the image of the Son – the Lord-God Yahweh/Jupiter (see Romans 8: 29; cf. Matthew 19: 4); - „he has also put eternity in their hearts“ (i.e. he connected their central heart-crystals with the Power/Spirit of the Universe; see Ecclesiastes 3: 11)]. Thus, in the beginning Yahweh/Jupiter shone like the sun; he is a star, described by the ancients as the „great luminary (light)“ and ruled the day (see Genesis 1: 16). But he was treacherously killed (pierced, through the energy of a scalar weapon - the „spear of the gods“?; the mark of this is probably his wound, called the „great red spot“) by the collective energy of Saturn and his angels - Mars and Mercury, and by the Earth (cf. Revelation 1: 7a; see Zechariah 12: 10); from a star he seemed to be extinguished and hid (humbled himself) in the image of a planet (cf. John 17: 5; Philippians 2: 5-11). But the Book of Revelation reveals the secret that Jupiter/JHWH will again be glorified („with power and great glory“) - and will be revealed as a brilliant luminary [he will burst forth brightly and shine like a beautiful star and sun (see Malachi 4: 2; Matthew 24: 27,30; cf. Zechariah 14: 6-9); he is the „star of Jacob“ and the exalted „scepter of Israel“ (see Numbers 24: 17)] and together with the Sun will reign in the Temple of the New Heaven, and on the New Earth (cf. Revelation 21: 22) [in Hebrew „Chesed“ (the name of the planet Jupiter) and „Tiphereth“ (the nickname of the Sun) were the two powers (thrones) in heaven (cf. Daniel 7: 9-14); for the Jews „Chesed“ was God’s compassionate „mercy“ („mercy“) or God’s „love“; in ancient times Jupiter – „Chesed“ was called „tikkun olam“ [„repairer of the world“; the word „olam“ in various ancient languages also means „eternal (a constant sound, noise or call throughout time)“]. - „He makes peace in His heights“ (cf. Job 25: 2b). He is called „the mediator, the first among a thousand“ (Job 33: 23b; cf. Song of Songs 5: 10); in ancient times Jupiter was also called „Shiloh“ (Hebrew „Shiloh“) – „Peacemaker“ (see Genesis 49: 10c); „Prince of Peace“ (see Isaiah 9: 6c). In Gnostic literature „aeon“ (Hebrew „olam“) is considered to be the life force emanating from the supreme deity, associated with the governance of the universe (cf. Psalms 93: 1; 96: 10); the aeons are the greatest (eternal) cycles of life (cf. Matthew 25: 46b). For us on Earth, the great aeons of time are apparently related to the energy (Holy Spirit) emanating (radiating), periodically sent, through/through Yahweh/Jupiter, on the one hand (cf. John 16: 7) and from/through the Sun, on the other hand (cf. John 15: 26). Planet Earth will again be the companion („Bride“) of (the midnight „Bridegroom“) Jupiter (as she was his in the times before sin and the breaking up of our entire planetary system).

 

[keras]

verse 9 - not appointed to wrath
verse 10 - avoidance of God' wrath poured out during the great tribulation by the resurrection/rapture event.

The insertion of a 'resurrection/rapture event', is entirely an addition to scripture. Perhaps one interpretation, if only there was other scriptural support for it. But there isn't.
Matthew 28:19-20 is the definitive scriptural proof of how we must remain on earth until Jesus Returns.

 

[CLEEB]

It is good that we share what each of us feels, thinks and believes about the time of the Second Coming. But more important and above all our ideas and calculations is what God has revealed on this matter. I think (I accept that I may be wrong!) that God has revealed the following order of things:
- Persian Empire (see Daniel 8: 3,4) --> Greek Empire (see Daniel 8: 5-7) --> Diadochi (see Daniel 8: 8) --> „little horn“ – King Antiochus IV Epiphanes (see Daniel 8: 9-12) --> conversation between two holy beings about the cleansing of the sanctuary for 2300 years (see Daniel 8: 13,14); the miracle of the cleansing of the sanctuary by the Maccabees – on December 22, 165 BC + 2300 years later – Saturday, December 22, 2136 AD (see Revelation 1: 10) --> 9 months later – great sign in heaven, around - Saturday, September 21, 2137 (see Revelation 12: 1,2) --> 1260 days (3.5 years or 42 months) later (see Daniel 12: 7 and Revelation 12: 14; 13: 5) – until the Spring of 2141 --> the first new moon after the vernal equinox for the Jews determined the beginning of the New Year – in 2141, the first new moon after the vernal equinox would have fallen to be seen on – Saturday, April 8, 2141 --> 75 days later (see Daniel 12: 11,12) the day of the summer solstice is reached – Thursday, June 22, 2141 (see Revelation 19: 11-21) [- if there were no shortening of days (see Matthew 24: 22) it would have to fall on - Saturday, September 23, 2141] --> „the thousand years“ (see Revelation 20: 2) --> the final end of evil (see Revelation 20: 7-10).

P.S. - In this presented timeline, the risky judgments are highlighted.

Even Jesus did not know the day and hour of the second advent. He said that only the FATHER knows. Theories are OK as long as we do not make them doctrine. Christ returns early to stop the tribulation else no one would be left alive. The two witnesses, after being killed, are resurrected 3 1/2 days later and rise up into the air to meet the returning Jesus. I would think that at that time , when they are killed, we, if alive, will know that in 3 1/2 days Jesus returns. When the antichrist signs a covenant with 10 nations this begins the countdown of the final “week” and at the midpoint of that week 1260 days into it, antichrist defiles the temple, as Paul said, declaring himself GOD. This event is the beginning of the great tribulation that is cut short for the sake of the elect, who are the church, and this indicates the church is still on Earth at the time of the great tribulation but is protected from this hour of trial that comes upon the whole earth. Revelation 3:10 Jesus was only involved with the earth twice, during his fleshy existence and second when he returns in glory. Hebrews 9:28 verifies this. Also in his prayer to the FATHER in John 17:5 Jesus specifically asked his FATHER to not take the church out of the world. The rapture theory began in 1830 by a Scottish woman , Margaret Macdonald, it was then popularized by a preacher, John Nelson Darby. If Christ re in secret before the tribulation this would be his third interaction with the earth when Hebrews 9:28 limits his appearances to only two times, his life on earth and the second advent. The confusion seems to come from making how we meet Jesus in the air with the second advent, making two separate occurrences rather than just one. The church rises up to meet the Christ at his return, not at some time beforehand. Certain scriptures are misused and misinterpreted to develop this rapture theory. This Macdonald woman and false preacher Darby literally invented the rapture from their own carnal minds.

 

[Jan001]

Even Jesus did not know the day and hour of the second advent. He said that only the FATHER knows. Theories are OK as long as we do not make them doctrine. Christ returns early to stop the tribulation else no one would be left alive. The two witnesses, after being killed, are resurrected 3 1/2 days later and rise up into the air to meet the returning Jesus. I would think that at that time , when they are killed, we, if alive, will know that in 3 1/2 days Jesus returns. When the antichrist signs a covenant with 10 nations this begins the countdown of the final “week” and at the midpoint of that week 1260 days into it, antichrist defiles the temple, as Paul said, declaring himself GOD. This event is the beginning of the great tribulation that is cut short for the sake of the elect, who are the church, and this indicates the church is still on Earth at the time of the great tribulation but is protected from this hour of trial that comes upon the whole earth. Revelation 3:10 Jesus was only involved with the earth twice, during his fleshy existence and second when he returns in glory. Hebrews 9:28 verifies this. Also in his prayer to the FATHER in John 17:5 Jesus specifically asked his FATHER to not take the church out of the world. The rapture theory began in 1830 by a Scottish woman , Margaret Macdonald, it was then popularized by a preacher, John Nelson Darby. If Christ re in secret before the tribulation this would be his third interaction with the earth when Hebrews 9:28 limits his appearances to only two times, his life on earth and the second advent. The confusion seems to come from making how we meet Jesus in the air with the second advent, making two separate occurrences rather than just one. The church rises up to meet the Christ at his return, not at some time beforehand. Certain scriptures are misused and misinterpreted to develop this rapture theory. This Macdonald woman and false preacher Darby literally invented the rapture from their own carnal minds.

The Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:15-22 was in the first century AD.

“So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 17 let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; 18 and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. 19 And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

According to Jesus, the desolating sacrilege standing in the holy place will be the Roman armies that will soon be encamped around Jerusalem within this generation. These armies were comprised of soldiers from the many nations of the Roman Empire.

Luke 21:20-24 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it; 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all that is written. 23 Alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! For great distress shall be upon the earth and wrath upon this people; 24 they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The two witnesses that the disobedient Jews rejected were the law and the prophets, which were symbolized by Moses and Elijah. Luke 9:28-37
The Old Testament foretold Jesus the Messiah's birth, death, and resurrection. Luke 24:44

 

[CLEEB]

The Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:15-22 was in the first century AD.

“So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 17 let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; 18 and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. 19 And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

According to Jesus, the desolating sacrilege standing in the holy place will be the Roman armies that will soon be encamped around Jerusalem within this generation. These armies were comprised of soldiers from the many nations of the Roman Empire.

Luke 21:20-24 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it; 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all that is written. 23 Alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! For great distress shall be upon the earth and wrath upon this people; 24 they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The two witnesses that the disobedient Jews rejected were the law and the prophets, which were symbolized by Moses and Elijah. Luke 9:28-37
The Old Testament foretold Jesus the Messiah's birth, death, and resurrection. Luke 24:44

 

[CLEEB]

Matthew 24:29-31 immediately after the tribulation Christ returns. The two witnesses were killed by the beast, Moses and Elijah were not killed, they died many years before the transfiguration which was only a vision as Jesus said, Matthew 17:9 I see you are a Catholic Preterist. Are you full or partial ?

 

[Lost4words]

Everyone has their own individual view/interpretation of End Times! God must be shaking His head!!

 

[Bob Crowley]

It's a bit like our view of God. There are about 8.2 billion people in the world today but with our democratic Western experience, we think God is going to accept 8.2 billion different personal interpretations of what He is really like.

We'll find out that when it comes to revelation (and the final judgment at the end of time), God is not a democrat.

 

[CLEEB]

Everyone has their own individual view/interpretation of End Times! God must be shaking His head!!

It is OK to speculate based on our current understanding of scripture but we should not make speculation doctrine. Many have made this mistake. As time marches on and more events happen this will add to our understanding. Eventually it will come to a point where we will know in advance what is going to happen. I do not think we have reached that time yet.