The End, according to Paul

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Douggg

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I agree that the text does not say after 62 and a half weeks, however, it does say after 62 weeks, but the Messiah was cut off in the middle of the 70th week, which is well after the 62 weeks of this 70 weeks prophecy.

Daryl, it would b 62 weeks unto messiah in verse 25. Fulfilled in John12:12-15, Jesus arriving in Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah, King of Israel.

After the 62 weeks unto messiah, the messiah was to be cutoff. 4 days after John 12:12-15, Jesus was crucified.

The 7year 70th week remains. And it is necessary for the entire 7 years in order for the "vision and prophecy" of the time of the end 2300 days of the vision Daniel had of the little horn in Daniel 8, to fit in.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
 
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Douggg

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They are the same event. The Olivet Discourse was about the temple and Jerusalem.
The presentation Jesus made in Luke 21 did not take place on the Mt. of Olives, but in the temple complex (verse 1-2). It is a parallel to the Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 (verse 3). But not the Olivet discourse.

The abomination of desolation is not mentioned in Luke 21.
 
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Douggg

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If it really does mean what you claim it means; why was it not written as Leviticus 25:8 is; where it actually says "sabbaths of years". Daniel doesn't say "weeks of years".

Clearly in Leviticus God explained this also stating specifically "49 years".

The passages in Daniel are not written this way!
Because Leviticus 25 is instructing the children of Israel about the Jubilee year. 49 years, then the 50th year is to be a Jubilee year.

Daniel 9, differently, is about prophecy.

Work on organizing into the 7 year 70th week, the timeframes of 2300 days about the little horn, the 1260 days of the two witnesses, the 3 1/2 days their bodies lay dead, the abomination of desolation setup triggering the great tribulation, the 42 month reign of the beast-king, the time/times/half time that Satan will have left, then Jesus's return. By making a timeline chart, which charts are great tools for that purpose. That should keep you busy for a while.
 
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Douggg

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compoinets of the seven years in Revelaiton.jpg
 
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Hammster

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The presentation Jesus made in Luke 21 did not take place on the Mt. of Olives, but in the temple complex (verse 1-2). It is a parallel to the Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 (verse 3). But not the Olivet discourse.

The abomination of desolation is not mentioned in Luke 21.
“As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down.” They questioned Him, saying, “Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?” And He said, “See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not go after them. When you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately.” Then He continued by saying to them, “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven. “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake. It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony. So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, and you will be hated by all because of My name. Yet not a hair of your head will perish. By your endurance you will gain your lives. “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
— Luke 21:6-21

And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
— Matthew 24:2-16

You really have to be willingly ignorant to say that these are speaking of two different events.
 
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Douggg

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They are the same event. The Olivet Discourse was about the temple and Jerusalem.
The Olivet discourse (and Luke 21 parallel) covered three basic time era's.

Near term - Israel under occupancy
Long term - Jews force into the nations, Israel in exile
End times - Israel a sovereign nation again, Jews return

I made this table of those three time era's and the verse(s) that applied to each.


Olivet Discourse11.jpg
 
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Douggg

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You really have to be willingly ignorant to say that these are speaking of two different events.
You are employing eisegesis to Luke 21 to put the abomination of desolation into the 70ad event.
 
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Hammster

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You are employing eisegesis to Luke 21 to put the abomination of desolation into the 70ad event.
No, I’m not. That’s why I posted them together. Luke’s audience, unlike Mathew’s, would not understand the phrase. So he worded it like he did. You have to willing ignore it to come to your conclusion.
 
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Hammster

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The Olivet discourse (and Luke 21 parallel) covered three basic time era's.

Near term - Israel under occupancy
Long term - Jews force into the nations, Israel in exile
End times - Israel a sovereign nation again, Jews return

I made this table of those three time era's and the verse(s) that applied to each.


View attachment 334532
You can keep posting your charts, but I never read them.
 
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DarylFawcett

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Douggg

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No, I’m not. That’s why I posted them together. Luke’s audience, unlike Mathew’s, would not understand the phrase. So he worded it like he did. You have to willing ignore it to come to your conclusion.
Based on what ? You think the Jews in the temple complex were not aware of Daniel 12, which the abomination of desolation appears, and that Daniel 12 is sealed until time of the end (Daniel 12:4)?

I am not ignoring anything. I made a chart of the Olivet discourse and the three time era's and the verse(s) appiying to each.
 
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Douggg

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You can keep posting your charts, but I never read them.
So, you willingly ignore them ? Like Daniel 12:4 ?

Go to the chart. Pick on the Luke 21 line. Open the biblical text of Luke 21. Then examine the verses in the Luke 21, while reading left to right in the chart. It will take you less than a minute.

You can do the same thing for the Matthew 24 line. And the Mark 13 line.

Having two monitor screens helps. One screen for viewing the online kjv. And the other screen for viewing the chart.
 
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The Righterzpen

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That doesn't agree with John 20:17.
His body had not ascended to heaven yet; only his soul.

So how do you explain "Today, you shall be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43
 
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The Righterzpen

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Because Leviticus 25 is instructing the children of Israel about the Jubilee year. 49 years, then the 50th year is to be a Jubilee year.

Daniel 9, differently, is about prophecy.
So..... let me get this strait: On something that's not prophecy; God will give very clear instructions. Yet on something that is; He won't?

Seems more hermeneutically consistent to me to just take the verses on face value and say they are literal weeks and days. Seeing how you can't apply your weeks to years principles on Daniel"s fast or mourning; or the instructions given about harvests and feasts. Your argument doesn't make sense in the context of any of those other passage; which are written the same way Daniel 9 is.

Work on organizing into the 7 year 70th week, the timeframes of 2300 days about the little horn, the 1260 days of the two witnesses, the 3 1/2 days their bodies lay dead, the abomination of desolation setup triggering the great tribulation, the 42 month reign of the beast-king, the time/times/half time that Satan will have left, then Jesus's return. By making a timeline chart, which charts are great tools for that purpose. That should keep you busy for a while.
I did give explanations of those passages. They fit quite precisely into specific historical events related to Christ's earthly life. You just don't seem to want to be educated enough about history to examine those events.
 
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Hammster

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Based on what ? You think the Jews in the temple complex were not aware of Daniel 12, which the abomination of desolation appears, and that Daniel 12 is sealed until time of the end (Daniel 12:4)?

I am not ignoring anything. I made a chart of the Olivet discourse and the three time era's and the verse(s) appiying to each.
Luke wasn’t written to Jews. This is what I mean when I say your hermeneutics are poor. You completely ignore who the audience is. The side-by-side is almost exact, yet you ignore it and change everything because Luke, writing to Theophilus, used terminology he would understand.
 
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Douggg

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Luke wasn’t written to Jews. This is what I mean when I say your hermeneutics are poor. You completely ignore who the audience is. The side-by-side is almost exact, yet you ignore it and change everything because Luke, writing to Theophilus, used terminology he would understand.
In Luke 21, Jesus is not speaking about who the gospel of Luke is written to. Jesus is speaking to them in temple complex when people were casting gifts into the treasury.
 
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Douggg

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Douggg

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Yes. They are works of fiction.
If you haven't examined the charts against the text referred to in them, then how do you know that they are works of fiction ?
 
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