The elephant in the room: the massive, looming problem of the Christian Right.

[ProudMomxmany]

Should the government legalize murder?

They already have...ever heard of the death penalty? How about killing non-combatants in war?

Therefore your argument is not valid. If you want to truly be "pro-life" you would be opposed to the death penalty, opposed to war, and in favor of making sure EVERYONE has a certain standard of living, from the inner city and Appalachia to the famine victims in Sudan and across the Sahara.

However, you are fixated on the fetus, not on the already living. You think its ok to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to subsidize the big banks yet cut the SNAP program. You call welfare socialism yet don't mind that the government gives trillions of dollars in foreign aid to countries that don't need it.

How do you justify that? It sounds quite upside down to me. But...the truth is you are so blinded by your arrogance and devotion to your ideology that you won't see that what the government has done is WRONG.

I am now done with you.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Over 1 TRILLION dollars has been spent on the bullhockey "wars".

That was over 12 years. The Great Pretender (the man occupying the White House) has spent that in three years on the biggest fraud ever foisted off on the American people -- a healthcare "plan" that doesn't work and has no plan to it. It's whatever he wakes up thinking it ought to be on any given day. If you don't like it, you still have to keep it.

Do you know that the money tossed away on that could have ended poverty all over the world ...

Do you know that the money projected to be spent on that bogus "healthcare plan," now estimated at over $3 trillion by 2023, could just as easily have been given out in the form of a lump sum payment -- about $10,000 to each American? That would buy a lot of healthcare insurance at a cost of even previously-thought-to-be "exorbitant" premiums of $500 a month, which look pretty cheap thanks to what this nincompoop and his socialist cronies have done to healthcare. That is to say, ruined it.

... renewed the crumbling infrastructure here in the US ...

Not even close. It would take the equivalent of the national GDP for three years to pay for that. Look it up. It dwarfs $1 trillion.

... and pretty much guaranteed everyone in the USA a 50K/yr income?

Not every good at math, are you? $1 trillion distributed in increments of $50,000 would be used up after they wrote two million checks. That's about 316 million checks short. Darn.

Oh, but that's a redistribution of wealth and that's socialism and that's just wrong.

Yes, it is, and it's definitely wrong. And by the way, what the Jerusalem church did immediately after Pentecost was not "socialism." Socialists view private property as oppressive, and have a theory of class warfare, in which the workers revolt against the capitalists -- the owners of the means of production -- and take control of private property. This is done either through open warfare, or it is done through state-sponsored wealth redistribution. That's pretty much what the ACA is doing now.

After that occurs, private property is abolished, and the state owns the means of production on behalf of the people. There’s none of this business in the book of Acts. The Jerusalem church membership was selling their possessions and sharing freely.

Second, the state is nowhere in sight. No Roman centurions are breaking down doors and sending Christians to the lions (that was later, and it wasn't to enforce socialist thought). No government is confiscating property and collectivizing industry in the book of Acts. No one is being coerced. The church in Jerusalem was just that -- the church, not the state. The church doesn’t act like the modern communist state, but if you truly like that idea, keep watching. Your boys in DC are going to give it to you unless someone stops them.

Your priorities are jacked all up.

One of these days that young man who fought in war, whom you are so concerned about as having been a pawn in a giant chess game, is going to say the same thing to you. He understands what he did. You don't.

 

[D Rodgers]

They already have...ever heard of the death penalty? How about killing non-combatants in war?

Therefore your argument is not valid. If you want to truly be "pro-life" you would be opposed to the death penalty, opposed to war, and in favor of making sure EVERYONE has a certain standard of living, from the inner city and Appalachia to the famine victims in Sudan and across the Sahara.

However, you are fixated on the fetus, not on the already living. You think its ok to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to subsidize the big banks yet cut the SNAP program. You call welfare socialism yet don't mind that the government gives trillions of dollars in foreign aid to countries that don't need it.

How do you justify that? It sounds quite upside down to me. But...the truth is you are so blinded by your arrogance and devotion to your ideology that you won't see that what the government has done is WRONG.

I am now done with you.

I DO mind that the government gives hundreds of billions of dollars to subsidize the big banks. I DO mind that the government gives trillions of dollars in foreign aid to other countries....especially Muslim countries who hate us and want to kill us all. I DO mind.

Now...apparently you don't understand the difference between killing and murder. Not all killing is murder.

Interestingly, most of us are familiar with this definition of murder, because it is reflected in the Penal Codes of our country. In the state of California, the Penal Code provides this definition of murder:
187. (a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought.

If killing enemy combatants is murder then Mr. Obama is a murderer. He sanctioned the killing (murder) of Osama Bin Hidin'. He also has slain countless terrorists AND sometimes their families to include children with his drone strikes.

Not all killing is murder. If it was, you would be complicit every time you ate a hamburger.

Jesus never burdened me nor any other Christian with making sure that EVERYONE has a certain standard of living. You're confusing Barack Obama with the Messiah. He's not.

What should that standard of living be?

It wasn't that many years ago in this country that people went outside to use the bathroom and had no electricity. I think people in the U.S. are doing pretty well.

There are plenty of Christian missions that are designed to help those in need at home and abroad. Part of the problem is that the SOCIALIST governments that control those countries don't allow the aid to reach the people.

You see....this is what happens when you exalt government over God and make government your god.

 

[D Rodgers]

Exodus 21:12-13 Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death. However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate.

hmmmm.....seems even scripture recognizes a difference between murder and killing.

 

[D Rodgers]

Perhaps we should retitle this thread to read, The Jackasses in Washington and the Massive Looming Problem of "Marxist Christians".

 

[D Rodgers]

However, you are fixated on the fetus, not on the already living.

King James Bible
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


So you're saying a fetus isn't a person....but God is saying that a fetus IS a person.

I apologize.....I was under the impression that you were a follower of Christ.

 

[SwordFall]

King James Bible
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


So you're saying a fetus isn't a person....but God is saying that a fetus IS a person.

I apologize.....I was under the impression that you were a follower of Christ.

The woman was more valuable then the fetus in Leviticus. If one struck a woman and killed the fetus, it was exacted with a fine.
Yet, any damage to the woman, including death, was exacted with eye for an eye.

The Bible does in fact indirectly tell that killing a fetus is not murder, such is why abortion is never expounded on again after. Something as serious as a form of murder should surely be noted again, especially in the New Testament, but it is not.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

The woman was more valuable then the fetus in Leviticus. If one struck a woman and killed the fetus, it was exacted with a fine.
Yet, any damage to the woman, including death, was exacted with eye for an eye.

The Bible does in fact indirectly tell that killing a fetus is not murder, such is why abortion is never expounded on again after. Something as serious as a form of murder should surely be noted again, especially in the New Testament, but it is not.

Perhaps reacquainting yourself with Psalm 139 would be in order.

 

[D Rodgers]

The woman was more valuable then the fetus in Leviticus. If one struck a woman and killed the fetus, it was exacted with a fine.
Yet, any damage to the woman, including death, was exacted with eye for an eye.

The Bible does in fact indirectly tell that killing a fetus is not murder, such is why abortion is never expounded on again after. Something as serious as a form of murder should surely be noted again, especially in the New Testament, but it is not.

“Listen to me, O islands, And pay attention, you peoples from afar, the LORD called me from the womb; from the body of my mother He named me.”

 

[D Rodgers]

You might want to lay off on your opinions...you have NO idea who I know. And yes, I do know 4 star Admirals and Generals. I also know a couple of senators and congresscritters. I am probably much better connected than you are...and I can tell you that you are so full of baloney, it's not even funny.

The Sheriff of my hometown was a high school classmate of mine. A couple of fire department battalion chiefs were friends of mine or siblings of friends of mine. Chief of Police...yup, know him and his family too.

So...would you like to repeat your allegations?

Wow! When facts and logic fail you, resort to either name-calling or pulling rank. We don't really care what generals or congressmen you know. What we care about is whether or not you know Jesus. Do you?

 

[SwordFall]

Perhaps reacquainting yourself with Psalm 139 would be in order.

There's nothing to be had there. It's an invalid reason for some Christians to call those with abortions murderers when even under the Old Law, it was not considered such.

 

[D Rodgers]

King James Bible
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[SwordFall]

King James Bible
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil

I'll keep that in mind when protestants tell people they cannot lose their salvation in mortal sin.

 

[Psalm 91]

So no one is going to talk to me now? How about this? Answer this for me. Is there anyone here who supports the forced redistribution of wealth by the U.S. Government? Does anyone support that concept?

They can't.

I've noticed lately that since the problems with the Obamacare site and the realization that the POTUS actually told a blatant lie several times to the American people, his supporters here have been a little quiet. It shows that the majority here are liberals because there haven't been too many threads about it. The fact that conservatives haven't rubbed it in shows we are a little more sensitive. If we had a Republican president who lied, Oh my goodness! There would be no end to the threads about it.

 

[D Rodgers]

I'll keep that in mind when protestants tell people they cannot lose their salvation in mortal sin.

You just can't help yourself, can you. You just did it again....you called evil good and good evil.

You need a little more scripture study and a little less emotion.

 

[D Rodgers]

They can't.

I've noticed lately that since the problems with the Obamacare site and the realization that the POTUS actually told a blatant lie several times to the American people, his supporters here have been a little quiet. It shows that the majority here are liberals because there haven't been too many threads about it. The fact that conservatives haven't rubbed it in shows we are a little more sensitive. If we had a Republican president who lied, Oh my goodness! There would be no end to the threads about it.

Yeah! As a Christian, how do you continue to support a President who is caught in a blatant lie? Especially a lie that does as much damage as this? I could list the string of scandals as well....NSA, IRS, Fast & Furious, Benghazi.

Ahhh....the end justifies the means.

All hail Obama, the Messiah!

 

[Psalm 91]

1. The USA is NOT a "Christian" Nation. Most of the founding fathers and the crafter of the Constitution/Bill of Rights was a Deist at best.

2. Saying that a Democrat cannot be a "true" Christian is against TOS.

3. The knee-jerk pro-fetus of the right turns many off. It's not pro-life, it's pro-fetus. Once that baby is born, any safety net that might help it have a better life is being cut left and right by the GOP.

4. 200 out of 225,000 general officers is LESS than 1%. BIG HOOTING DEAL!

5. As a proud wife, mother, daughter, daughter-in-law, sister-in-law and granddaughter of veterans, I can tell you that the hysteria is just that, hysteria. Instead of supporting the right-wing obstructionists in DC, fight for compromise. Instead of being all about the "babies" (fetuses) and oh no, can't have the gays marrying, fight for better education, better safety nets, stop all this pork-barrel spending and support putting money into renewing infrastructure that will put millions of people back to work. Support raising the minimum wage so folks that are working DO NOT have to rely on safety nets. Support health care access for ALL, not just the elite.

The rest...get over it.

Perhaps you're not aware that your president killed the Born Alive Infant Protection Act which would have given medical treatment to infants born alive after a failed abortion. SOOoooo, any safety net that might help it have a better life is being cut left and right by Barack Obama. That, also, is called infanticide because the infant is left to die AFTER he is out of the womb.

The only other thing I have to say, since someone told me we can't discuss abortion on this forum, is that there is human DNA at the moment of conception, therefore the baby is human long before it's birth. You are just regurgitating left wing talking points.


No one is going back to work until Barack Obama retires. I think you are confused about who the "elites" are. Your president and his friends are all elites. I guess you didn't know that a lot of regular people like me, have always had health care. It's only been the poor who have not had it and they will not have it now because most of them will be put on Medicaid and will receive minimal care. But you keep believing that young people are going to foot the bill when they are the healthiest people and the most indebted people in the country.

I've heard the talking points a thousand times and I don't care to hear them anymore.

 

[Psalm 91]

Yeah....explain that to God....ahh...it's just a fetus...so I'm sure you don't mind if we kill it.

Safety net? How much more do you want? Let's see....you have welfare, social security, Obamacare now, medicare, medicaid. What else would you like? You want everybody to get a free car? Oh yeah....I forgot about Section 8.

Did you find that in the scripture someplace that we as Christians should put politicians in office who provide a social safety net for people? Show me where Jesus said the GOVERNMENT should take care of people.

Does the Bible support individual responsibility? Yes or No? How about economic responsibility? Yes or no? How responsible are we being as a nation when our central bank prints 85 Billion per month, most of which is going to support the massive forced redistribution of wealth?

Was Jesus a Marxist? Is that what you're saying?

WOW!!!!

 

[Psalm 91]

There's nothing to be had there. It's an invalid reason for some Christians to call those with abortions murderers when even under the Old Law, it was not considered such.

God didn't want men to divorce either, but Moses allowed it because of the stubbornness of the people or something like that.

Also, the Word doesn't say it was okay for a woman to kill her own unborn baby for the sake of convenience.

 

[Psalm 91]

I'll keep that in mind when protestants tell people they cannot lose their salvation in mortal sin.

Swordfall, salvation is a Covenant between Jesus and the saved person. Jesus never breaks His Covenant. We can sin (which sin is sin in God's eyes, doesn't matter what kind of sin) and not keep our end of the Covenant but He keeps His as we have seen in His Covenant with the Jews. I once looked for an answer to what happens when a believer dies in sin and I think I found it in either Corinthians or Hebrews, but it said that the person would lose his rewards.

Suppose a born again, war-weary soldier shoots innocent people out of anger and burn-out and then gets shot to death in the incident. I mean, seriously, if we could lose our salvation through sin, there must be a lot of people in hell because they started a fight with their spouse before their death, or told a convenient untruth to avoid family problems, etc. Suppose a believer has a sexual infidelity and dies in a car accident that night?

God is a Covenant Keeper. He's always faithful. He has always kept His Covenant with the Jewish people and they have been unfaithful many times. I know that the Jewish people don't necessarily go to heaven unless they believe in Jesus, but He has kept His Covenant with them and we really don't know how the Jews are being judged since they have been purposely blinded.