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So are the elect like that group of people at the prayer meeting who decide who's saved and who's not? I Mean, how do they know who isn't saved? Did they vote? Sometimes saved people appear on the list and it is confusing.
You had an invitation to the banquet, so you are not a party crasher. The fact is not everyone invited to the banquet accepts the invitation.What's the point of all this talk of election in Scripture if we are really the ones who elect ourselves?
Isn't there a parable about that?You had an invitation to the banquet, so you are not a party crasher. The fact is not everyone invited to the banquet accepts the invitation.
You had an invitation to the banquet, so you are not a party crasher. The fact is not everyone invited to the banquet accepts the invitation.
Asking a question is a way of teaching, I appreciate your participation.The elect are the ones who have sincerely accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Romans 10
11 It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
It's not up to humans to decided or discern who is and is not saved ... we are not to judge others, judging is done by Jesus and him alone.
John 5:22
"For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son
Romans 10:9-10
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
I would encourage you to study His Holy Word and learn about Him. Amen
When I wrote this I was undergoing some sanctification and I had a memory of a prayer meeting at a church where people were praying for people on a list who were determined by the group and one of the people listed I thought was saved.It might be enriching to the conversation if you could clarify some of your words here:
The OP begins with what (I think) is a sarcastic and cartoonish portrayal of a secret group of "choosers" in a back room somewhere. Is this your experience? If not, what motivated you to post?
- What do you mean by "the church"?
- What do you mean by "the church's perception of reality"?
- Do you have specific issues in mind?
One useful way to dive in to the topic apart from denominational trappings is to go to an online bible tool and compare passages that use the words "elect" "predestined" "chose" "chosen" "holy" etc., in other words, terms that denote a setting apart for a purpose.
And there was someone who was invited but wasn't well dressed and he was thrown into the darkness.This is true, and so we read that many Jews who were the "invited" rejected the feast of the king, and he sought men who were not among the invited to come to the feast.I'm sorry, are we talking about a parable with a context?
I believe the party crasher did not have the correct garment. Where did the others get their garment?You had an invitation to the banquet, so you are not a party crasher. The fact is not everyone invited to the banquet accepts the invitation.
So, I have never really understood how and / or why Calvin decided to focus on those things that he focused on. I am sure it made sense to him. But I have found that some Christians, as they consider the ramifications of Calvin's theology, and how it might or might not pertain to them, can become anxious, wondering how they can be sure they are actually elect. And not a false believer, or one of those who only seemed to be elect. So, I just keep it simple. God has allowed me to figure a couple of things out, by His Mercy. One of them, is "trust in Christ, and follow Him". God helps us to do both, but we must also exercise faith and make an effort to follow. Like a mother helping her baby to walk. The baby won't make it anywhere without the Mother, but the baby also won't make it anywhere if he doesn't use his little legs. She holds him, he walks. That makes sense to me.
Christians are people of the Book
The concept of being under the law and not by the spirit in the bible is very similar to "the people of the book are infidels" theme in the Quran.This is a bit of a bird walk, but why did you emply this phrase? Its a Muslim concept that, to my knowledge, is not found in the Bible. My mental hairs stood up when I read it because accepting this phrase in the context of gospel-sharing with Muslims can be counter-productive. The Q'uran employs it as a pre-emptive strike to legitimize Muhammed as a receiver of the "most correct book" (to borrow a Mormon phrase) and also to strike a common-cause with Jews and Christians. Food for thought.
We all must make a determination as to which people we believe are not saved - if we are to participate in praying for salvation for anyone.When I wrote this I was undergoing some sanctification and I had a memory of a prayer meeting at a church where people were praying for people on a list who were determined by the group and one of the people listed I thought was saved. What triggered this memory beyond the sanctification were threads and posts that indicated that certain people seemed to think it was their job to judge whether people were saved or not. So I figured I'd ask a question. I'm glad I asked the question, it's been a good thread. Blessings.
The concept of being under the law and not by the spirit in the bible is very similar to "the people of the book are infidels" theme in the Quran.
.. which also became a people of the book.
But let's not disparage those who do their best to determine what they think the saved status is for various people. They usually do so for the purest of motives - the desire to pray for the salvation of those they fear are perishing.
NO - it leads only to people trying to determine as best they can the spiritual status of others they wish to pray for, and with the understanding that their determination may indeed be incorrect.It sounds good, but leads to a picture being painted where salvation is reliant on the church, instead of Jesus and the divine relationship. good intentions are just that, they pave the roadway to hell.
There was once this apple, it did not fall far from the tree .. it became a tree later on.NO - it leads only to people trying to determine as best they can the spiritual status of others they wish to pray for, and with the understanding that their determination may indeed be incorrect.
Unlike with Roman Catholicism and some other groups - salvation is not being awarded by the church.
There was once this apple, it did not fall far from the tree .. it became a tree later on.
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