The Earth is Flat, and you will prove it.

[JacksBratt]

To me, it seems that it's not just that you "don't believe everything you're told", it's that after centuries of research, you don't believe anything, period! Don't mistake skepticism for outright denialism.

I think I see the problem here, and it's a common one. It's the belief that "official" sources are wrong on principle. This is a particularly ridiculous belief to hold when dealing with fields of science you have no understanding of, given that you're essentially saying, "I know nothing about X, but I know the people who have dedicated their lives to studying X can't possibly be right, because everyone thinks they're right". It's arrogant and ignorant, and almost always leads to the wrong answer, because by and large, these "official" sources? They got to be called "official" for a reason.

NASA isn't just some shadowy government cabal. They're the world's largest space agency, employing a large number of scientists, for most of whom this was their dream job. They have an extremely impressive track record which takes a downright absurd conspiracy of every single space agency in the world (including the soviets during the space race) to discredit. The conspiracies that many flat earthers and geocentrists dream up, that all of NASA's accomplishments are faked and the people working their spend all their time constructing fake pictures and phony data... I'm sorry, do you honestly think that hundreds of scientists who spent their lives dreaming of stepping up to become a part of the space race would just go along with it if they found out that their real job was "Learn how to use photoshop really well"? You think they'd keep doing that soul-crushing job for decades, with nobody opening their mouth? It's absurd.

And all this for what? Why would they lie to us? What possible gain is there in perpetrating lies about, say, the atmospheric makeup of Jupiter or how its moons look like? What does this achieve? Nothing. There's no point. If your worldview hinges on whether or not Io is volcanic, you're officially so fringe and unimportant that a conspiracy of this level would be downright wasteful.

The worst part of all this? I can see that you're a smart person. You're just like my friend Yosarian - obviously you're a really smart, well-meaning guy. But these conspiracy theories have poisoned your mind to the point where a credible source supporting a claim is a reason to reject the claim, rather than accept it. And that's a really toxic, dangerous attitude, because not only are you taking a dump all over the ivory tower which is by far mankind's most significant and important accomplishment, but the moment you apply this logic to fields like medicine, where it can make a significant difference in your life, it's can very literally kill you. What you seem to be saying to me really is, "Because these people have spent their whole lives studying this, they cannot be trusted." And that's a really, really stupid idea.





Or, alternatively, they're just sick to death of dealing with people who know nothing and have no interest in learning anything. People who believe that the earth is flat deserve all the scorn, derision, and ridicule that's coming their way. And you deserve to be laughed out of the room if you think these arguments hold water. :/ It's entirely possible to be both wrong and mocked.

Thanks for being kind in your response.

In short there are some things that I need to question. It may seem that I don't believe "anything", however, the things I am questioning are huge foundational pillars of the scientific world.
They are all linked. If one is in error, they all come into question.

If the world is flat, then what is the space program doing? If the world is flat how does evolution work? If there is no globe why is the military, governments of the world and NASA lying.

Can you imagine if, during the cold war, space race, both Russia and the US found out the earth was flat....what do you tell the world? What does that do to all science.

All I am saying is that there is a lot of intelligent people, all over the world, researching this. They have good questions.

In all honesty, I hope that someone comes out with the final nail to seal the coffin on the FE theory. I don't think that society could handle the news if the globe was proved to be the greatest lie in the history of mankind.

And, yes, I believe that JFK was a setup, 9/11 was a set up, evolution is a lie, evidence for facts against the TOE is squashed, hidden or destroyed. I also have a sneaking suspicion that we never went to the moon. This is based on the Vanallen belt and the fact that if it is a huge problem for those going to mars, how did they go through it in the 60's and how did all the film on the camera not get ruined by the radiation that has been proven to exist.

So, ya, there is a lot that I am questioning, but, I have good reason to.

 

[lasthero]

If the world is flat, then what is the space program doing?

Which space program? There are many different space programs. Funnily enough, none of them have came out and said the world is flat.

If the world is flat how does evolution work?

The same way. What does evolution have to do with the shape of the earth?

All I am saying is that there is a lot of intelligent people, all over the world, researching this.

'A lot' is really pushing it, even you have to admit. Could you name even ten people with PhDs who are seriously researching whether the earth is round or not?

 

[Reasoning]

Thanks for being kind in your response.

In short there are some things that I need to question. It may seem that I don't believe "anything", however, the things I am questioning are huge foundational pillars of the scientific world.
They are all linked. If one is in error, they all come into question.

If the world is flat, then what is the space program doing? If the world is flat how does evolution work? If there is no globe why is the military, governments of the world and NASA lying.

Can you imagine if, during the cold war, space race, both Russia and the US found out the earth was flat....what do you tell the world? What does that do to all science.

All I am saying is that there is a lot of intelligent people, all over the world, researching this. They have good questions.

In all honesty, I hope that someone comes out with the final nail to seal the coffin on the FE theory. I don't think that society could handle the news if the globe was proved to be the greatest lie in the history of mankind.

And, yes, I believe that JFK was a setup, 9/11 was a set up, evolution is a lie, evidence for facts against the TOE is squashed, hidden or destroyed. I also have a sneaking suspicion that we never went to the moon. This is based on the Vanallen belt and the fact that if it is a huge problem for those going to mars, how did they go through it in the 60's and how did all the film on the camera not get ruined by the radiation that has been proven to exist.

So, ya, there is a lot that I am questioning, but, I have good reason to.

Research has shown over and over that people who believe in ridiculous conspiracies and the like, are very receptive to bad reasoning, false argumentation and bad interpretation. Well you are a case study! They believe in psychics and mediums, flat earths, 9/11 conspiracies, no-landing-on-the-moon conspiracies, buildings on the back of the moon, Aliens (i'm sure you think there are aliens in area 51) etc etc etc. They buy it all! The weirder, and the more unbelievable, the more these people believe it. I'm sure you have crazy websites on every topic, usually same old same old that has been debunked years ago by real scientists. But unfortunately in America there is always a 'Dr. Expert on bla bla' for any topic you can find.

I hate to break it to you, but you are living in a lie. A misinterpretation of the world, and there is absolutely no reason to. Wake up, it's for the better.

 

[JacksBratt]

True, none of them have. Do you think that there is a reason for this. Could they all be doing this for the same reasons?

I don't know. I am still searching.

Check this out: You can see this pic on the wiki for Mount Foraker.

These mountain ranges are 100 miles from the camera. That means that there is 6,666.7 feet of drop or curvature from the camera to the mountains. You should not be able to see as much of these mountains as you can and they should be leaning away from the camera, not standing up straight. Also, Should the peaks of the mountains on the left not be leaning away from the peaks on the right. Should there not be a visible effect of the curve of the earth while these mountains sit on the ball earth the peaks should be leaning away from each other, leaning away from the camera and we should not be able to see as much as we can?

What do you think. Another illusion? Is the globe still a globe but much bigger than we were told?

 

[Reasoning]

True, none of them have. Do you think that there is a reason for this. Could they all be doing this for the same reasons?

I don't know. I am still searching.

Check this out: You can see this pic on the wiki for Mount Foraker.

These mountain ranges are 100 miles from the camera. That means that there is 6,666.7 feet of drop or curvature from the camera to the mountains. You should not be able to see as much of these mountains as you can and they should be leaning away from the camera, not standing up straight. Also, Should the peaks of the mountains on the left not be leaning away from the peaks on the right. Should there not be a visible effect of the curve of the earth while these mountains sit on the ball earth the peaks should be leaning away from each other, leaning away from the camera and we should not be able to see as much as we can?

What do you think. Another illusion? Is the globe still a globe but much bigger than we were told?

This has been explained already. If your example is even correct, it is the atmosphere that is bending the light. It's a very simple principle in physics.

Oh just wanted to share this beautiful pic of the snowstorm here in NYC, made from the ISS. Pretty round earth no?

 

[JacksBratt]

This has been explained already. If your example is even correct, it is the atmosphere that is bending the light. It's a very simple principle in physics.

Oh just wanted to share this beautiful pic of the snowstorm here in NYC, made from the ISS. Pretty round earth no?

Something is bent, that is for sure.

 

[JacksBratt]

Research has shown over and over that people who believe in ridiculous conspiracies and the like, are very receptive to bad reasoning, false argumentation and bad interpretation. Well you are a case study! They believe in psychics and mediums, flat earths, 9/11 conspiracies, no-landing-on-the-moon conspiracies, buildings on the back of the moon, Aliens (i'm sure you think there are aliens in area 51) etc etc etc. They buy it all! The weirder, and the more unbelievable, the more these people believe it. I'm sure you have crazy websites on every topic, usually same old same old that has been debunked years ago by real scientists. But unfortunately in America there is always a 'Dr. Expert on bla bla' for any topic you can find.

I hate to break it to you, but you are living in a lie. A misinterpretation of the world, and there is absolutely no reason to. Wake up, it's for the better.

No there are no aliens. There are interdimensional beings, demons.

If you want to write me off as a case study, it will not affect me. I am still in a searching stage of all that is supposed to be true.

You, however are accepting everything as it is stated. I doubt you have expertise in all the factions of science necessary to know for certain that all of the topics are, in fact, truth. You must rely on your faith in the people giving the information and that what they are saying is fact.

A man who knows not and knows he knows not is wise. A fool is one who knows not but thinks he knows.

I know not. I am trying to learn.

 

[Subduction Zone]

True, none of them have. Do you think that there is a reason for this. Could they all be doing this for the same reasons?

I don't know. I am still searching.

Check this out: You can see this pic on the wiki for Mount Foraker.

These mountain ranges are 100 miles from the camera. That means that there is 6,666.7 feet of drop or curvature from the camera to the mountains. You should not be able to see as much of these mountains as you can and they should be leaning away from the camera, not standing up straight. Also, Should the peaks of the mountains on the left not be leaning away from the peaks on the right. Should there not be a visible effect of the curve of the earth while these mountains sit on the ball earth the peaks should be leaning away from each other, leaning away from the camera and we should not be able to see as much as we can?

What do you think. Another illusion? Is the globe still a globe but much bigger than we were told?

Your math is terrible. The amount of "tilt" would be less than one degree. Do you think that you can spot that amount of tilt in an irregular object. In fact, let's get more precise. You said 100 miles from the camera. I live in an area where you can see mountains quite a far away and I think that you may be overestimating the distance, but I will still use your figures. At 100 miles away the degree of "tilt" can be calculated quite easily. It will be 100 miles/25,000 miles times 360 degrees in a circle. How about that, I was wrong. The amount of tilt would be roughly 1.4 degrees. I was off by a factor of 2. So do you think that you could spot a 2 degree tilt on an irregular object? I know that I couldn't.

If you gave the mountains and where the photo was taken from I can even tell you how far away you were from them.

 

[The Cadet]

If the world is flat, then what is the space program doing?

Good question! What are they doing?

If the world is flat how does evolution work?

Same way as always. Whether the earth is flat or round has no bearing on the theory of evolution.

If there is no globe why is the military, governments of the world and NASA lying.

I don't know, why don't you explain? What is the purpose of this grand conspiracy? Why would they all lie to us? What's up with those rocket launches?

Can you imagine if, during the cold war, space race, both Russia and the US found out the earth was flat....what do you tell the world? What does that do to all science.

Well, here's what I think would happen: they'd publish their research in respectable peer-reviewed journals, we'd laugh as Sputnik crashed to the ground instead of going into orbit, and say, "Stupid commies, didn't know the earth was flat". It would be a stunning revelation, make no mistake, particularly because it's physically impossible in a number of ways and it doesn't take a multibillion dollar space agency to do the tests that demonstrate quite clearly that the earth is not flat, but it wouldn't be a death knell for some monolithic "science". It would just be another way we get better at understanding our reality.

What do you think? What do you think the purpose of the conspiracy is? They're hiding the flat earth because...? You asked a lot of questions, but you didn't actually answer mine. You just left them hanging, in typical conspiracy theorist fashion.

In all honesty, I hope that someone comes out with the final nail to seal the coffin on the FE theory.

That's just it. There is no "FE theory". There is no coherent model of reality which points to a flat earth. The coffin has been buried six feet under for about the last 2300 years. You want a nail in the coffin? Watch a boat approaching over the sea.

All I am saying is that there is a lot of intelligent people, all over the world, researching this. They have good questions.

But that's just it. They don't. You, someone who is apparently only playing devil's advocate, have pointed to several of these questions and they have been not just wrong, but laughably wrong. "If the earth is a globe wouldn't midnight sun on the north pole be impossible?" No, because the earth is at a tilt, which is responsible for the seasons. This question demonstrates an incredible lack of understanding of what the current cosmological model is. Why in the world did you think that was a good question? You held up a page touting this model as though it had some merit:

But it takes only the most cursory glance to tell that this model is nonsense. Just to be clear: by citing this and saying "check this out, this is worth your time", you put your reputation behind this. But it's just so obviously wrong. It doesn't take more than the observation of a single sunrise or sunset to be able to say, "Hang on, this model can't possibly be right." Pull this out in polite conversation and you will be made a laughingstock.

Do you care?

Do you care that your sources are lying to you in blatantly obvious ways?

Do you care that the moment you talk to someone who actually knows something about how the world works, you'll be made out to be a joke?

Do you care that you're wrong?

Seriously, think for a moment. Really think. Your reasoning on this particular issue has been so flawed, so blatantly wrong in such obvious ways... shouldn't that give you a moment's pause? Shouldn't you stop, just for a moment, and think, "Huh, I thought..."

but, I have good reason to

"About the flat earth question, but my reasoning was really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really flawed, and I trusted a lot of sources I really shouldn't have. Maybe, just maybe, this is a more common problem? Maybe there's something wrong with how I go about evaluating reality?"

Because lemme tell you, if I was this wrong about something, I'd spend a whole lot of time wondering what else I was wrong about, because it takes a seriously broken filter to be this wrong.

 

[SkyWriting]

These mountain ranges are 100 miles from the camera. That means that there is 6,666.7 feet of drop or curvature from the camera to the mountains. You should not be able to see as much of these mountains as you can and they should be leaning away from the camera, not standing up straight. Also, Should the peaks of the mountains on the left not be leaning away from the peaks on the right. Should there not be a visible effect of the curve of the earth while these mountains sit on the ball earth the peaks should be leaning away from each other, leaning away from the camera and we should not be able to see as much as we can?What do you think. Another illusion? Is the globe still a globe but much bigger than we were told?

It could be that 6,666.7 feet are not visible. But that would only happen if the
terrain in between the two objects was say...water. In those cases 7000 feet
should not be visible at the base.

If we were looking at an antenna tower, then yes, you should be able to measure
a difference in distance to the base or the top with a tape measure, or laser measurement.

Or you could try triangulation measuring.

 

[SkyWriting]

Because lemme tell you, if I was this wrong about something, I'd spend a whole lot of time wondering what else I was wrong about, because it takes a seriously broken filter to be this wrong.

Like all matter is really empty space?
Electrons don't exist as particles but
as clouds of probability?

 

[[serious]]

Like all matter is really empty space?
Electrons don't exist as particles but
as clouds of probability?

Do you have a better explanation of most alpha particles not being deflected when fired at a thin gold foil in the Geiger–Marsden experiment?

 

[SkyWriting]

This has been explained already. If your example is even correct, it is the atmosphere that is bending the light. It's a very simple principle in physics.Oh just wanted to share this beautiful pic of the snowstorm here in NYC, made from the ISS. Pretty round earth no?

Seeing is not always the solution.
What does your mind see when you look at the cross-hairs below?

 

[SkyWriting]

There is no coherent model of reality which points to a flat earth.

Sure there is. I have one level. It is so long it circles the earth and forms a ring connected on both ends.

Every person on earth walks over to it with their cell phone and they all
talk to each other and confirm that it's flat and level.

And in science, majority rules.

 

[The Cadet]

Every person on earth walks over to it with their cell phone and they all
talk to each other and confirm that it's flat and level.

And in science, majority rules.

You've had this explained to you at least three times in this thread; if you still do not understand the difference between level with respects to gravity and flat, then it is because you are trying very hard not to understand it.

 

[Reasoning]

Sure there is. I have one level. It is so long it circles the earth and forms a ring connected on both ends.

Every person on earth walks over to it with their cell phone and they all
talk to each other and confirm that it's flat and level.

And in science, majority rules.

So you are saying, the earth is flat for any daily purpose, but it is actually a ball on a a larger scale? Well then you are right

 

[SkyWriting]

So you are saying, the earth is flat for any daily purpose, but it is actually a ball on a a larger scale? Well then you are right

I'm saying the majority opinion is always still just a collection of opinions.
Your opinion is not the final word.

 

[SkyWriting]

You've had this explained to you at least three times in this thread; if you still do not understand the difference between level with respects to gravity and flat, then it is because you are trying very hard not to understand it.

I explained the difference in the OP with the lasers and marbles.
Perhaps you are trying not to read it.

 

[The Cadet]

I'm saying the majority opinion is always still just a collection of opinions.
Your opinion is not the final word.

You know what? You're right. You should tell your friends all about how you think the earth is flat.

 

[The Cadet]

I explained the difference in the OP.

Well then why are you still getting it wrong?