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The duration of hell and its purpose

What is the duration of hell?


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Der Alte

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Strong's Greek: 3708. ὁράω (horaó) — has 684 Occurrences. The translators did not use the "experience" based on their own presuppositions. We could go over all 684 occurrences, and in many instances, the greek word ὁράω (horaó) meaning and definition is "experience". Such as these verses, which also have the same greek world ὁράω (horaó).
Did they Experience these things, or was it just their imagination?
Matthew 2:11 V-AIA-3P
GRK: τὴν οἰκίαν εἶδον τὸ παιδίον
NAS: into the house they saw the Child
INT: the house they found the child
Matthew 2:13 V-AMA-2S
GRK: δὲ αὐτῶν ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου
INT: moreover they behold an angel of [the] Lord
Matthew 2:16 V-APA-NMS
GRK: Τότε Ἡρῴδης ἰδὼν ὅτι ἐνεπαίχθη
INT: Then Herod having seen that he had been tricked
Matthew 2:19 V-AMA-2S
GRK: τοῦ Ἡρῴδου ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου
INT: Herod behold an angel of [the] Lord
Your first sentence "Strong's Greek: 3708. ὁράω (horaó) — has 684 Occurrences. The translators did not use the "experience" based on their own presuppositions." You have no idea what "presuppositions" any of the translators may have had. I checked about 20-25 occurrences none of them could possibly mean experience.
As for your examples
Matthew 2:11 V-AIA-3P
GRK: τὴν οἰκίαν εἶδον τὸ παιδίον
NAS: into the house they saw the Child
INT: the house they found the child
They saw a child they did not experience it.
Matthew 2:13 V-AMA-2S
GRK: δὲ αὐτῶν ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου
INT: moreover they behold an angel of [the] Lord
They saw an angel . They did NOT experience it.
Matthew 2:16 V-APA-NMS
GRK: Τότε Ἡρῴδης ἰδὼν ὅτι ἐνεπαίχθη
INT: Then Herod having seen that he had been tricked
Matthew 2:19 V-AMA-2S
GRK: τοῦ Ἡρῴδου ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου
INT: Herod behold an angel of [the] Lord
Herod saw an angel. he did not experience it.
That is G3708 let us look at the definition of G3700 the word that Luke actually used.
G3700
ὀπτάνομαι, ὄπτομαι
optanomai optomai
op-tan'-om-ahee, op'-tom-ahee
The first a (middle voice) prolonged form of the second (primary) which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternates of G3708; to gaze (that is, with wide open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from G991, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from G1492, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while G2300, and still more emphatically its intensive G2334, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and G4648 a watching from a distance): - appear, look, see, shew self.
 
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wendykvw

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Your first sentence "Strong's Greek: 3708. ὁράω (horaó) — has 684 Occurrences. The translators did not use the "experience" based on their own presuppositions." You have no idea what "presuppositions" any of the translators may have had. I checked about 20-25 occurrences none of them could possibly mean experience.
As for your examples
Matthew 2:11 V-AIA-3P
GRK: τὴν οἰκίαν εἶδον τὸ παιδίον
NAS: into the house they saw the Child
INT: the house they found the child
They saw a child they did not experience it.
Matthew 2:13 V-AMA-2S
GRK: δὲ αὐτῶν ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου
INT: moreover they behold an angel of [the] Lord
They saw an angel . They did NOT experience it.
Matthew 2:16 V-APA-NMS
GRK: Τότε Ἡρῴδης ἰδὼν ὅτι ἐνεπαίχθη
INT: Then Herod having seen that he had been tricked
Matthew 2:19 V-AMA-2S
GRK: τοῦ Ἡρῴδου ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου
INT: Herod behold an angel of [the] Lord
Herod saw an angel. he did not experience it.
That is G3708 let us look at the definition of G3700 the word that Luke actually used.
G3700
ὀπτάνομαι, ὄπτομαι
optanomai optomai
op-tan'-om-ahee, op'-tom-ahee
The first a (middle voice) prolonged form of the second (primary) which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternates of G3708; to gaze (that is, with wide open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from G991, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from G1492, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while G2300, and still more emphatically its intensive G2334, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and G4648 a watching from a distance): - appear, look, see, shew self.
The translators did not use experience based on their own presuppositions. More than likely the presuppositions of eternal conscious hell.

I can see a Christian band practice and experience at the same time.
Someone can see an angel and experience an angel at the same time.
 
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TedT

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Damnation views hell as retributive punishment and the duration is eternal without end.

They are not unforgivable because HE hates them and their sin so much but because when HE asked us to choose to be HIS Bride or to reject HIM, HE promised us that our choice would not be interfered with though there would be legal and natural consequences... warnings which some ignored.

Now, please consider:
Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
The implication of this verse and the others like it, 1 Corinthians 5:6, Mark 8:15, is that once a person is sinful, evil, their evil will grow until they are perfectly, ie fully, evil unless they are redeemed and reborn as new, their sinfulness ended by GOD's grace.

To save HIS heavenly marriage from the predations of the eternally evil ones, it was necessary for HIM to banish them from the reality that included HIS heavenly marriage with HIS Bride. Hell was an absolute necessity to keep HIS holy ones safe from the evils of the condemned ones without perpetual war.
 
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sawdust

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The Master will draw how many unto Himself?

ALL

Helkuo is a strong word which means to tug, draw, or compel, and is found 6 times in the New Testament. In each usage, whatever was drawn came; there is never a suggestion or hint that whatever was drawn was not accomplished.

Considering John uses this statement of Christ to explain it signifies the manner of His death (Jn.12:33), why do you assume all men are coming for salvation? The Cross is a judgement on sin. It may well be Jesus is saying I will draw all men for judgement. It is, after all, the one thing all men, believer and unbeliever alike, have in common.
 
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Der Alte

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The translators did not use experience based on their own presuppositions. More than likely the presuppositions of eternal conscious hell.
I can see a Christian band practice and experience at the same time.
Someone can see an angel and experience an angel at the same time
.
Nonsense!
Back to Luke 3:6
All mankind will see(experience) salvation.
WRONG! No matter how many times you repeat it.
Matthew 7:21-23
(21) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
(22) On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
(23) And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Twenty two categories of unrighteous people who have no inheritance in the kingdom of God.1. adulterers, 2. covetous, 3. drunkenness, 4. effeminate, 5. emulations, 6. envious, 7. extortion 8. fornication, 9. hatred, 10. heresies, 11. homosexuals, 12. idolators, 13. lasciviousness, 14. murder, 15. reveling, 16. revilers 17. sedition, 18. strife, 19. thieves, 20. uncleanness 21. witchcraft. 22. Wrath
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5, 1 Corinthians 3:17
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: [no wrongdoer] neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that [no wrongdoer] no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Psalms 95:10-11
(10) Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
(11) Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
Hebrews 3:11-14
(11) So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)[Ps 95:11]
(12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
(13) But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
(14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

 
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wendykvw

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Nonsense!

WRONG! No matter how many times you repeat it.
Matthew 7:21-23
(21) “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
(22) On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
(23) And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Twenty two categories of unrighteous people who have no inheritance in the kingdom of God.1. adulterers, 2. covetous, 3. drunkenness, 4. effeminate, 5. emulations, 6. envious, 7. extortion 8. fornication, 9. hatred, 10. heresies, 11. homosexuals, 12. idolators, 13. lasciviousness, 14. murder, 15. reveling, 16. revilers 17. sedition, 18. strife, 19. thieves, 20. uncleanness 21. witchcraft. 22. Wrath
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5, 1 Corinthians 3:17
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: [no wrongdoer] neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that [no wrongdoer] no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Psalms 95:10-11
(10) Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
(11) Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
Hebrews 3:11-14
(11) So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)[Ps 95:11]
(12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
(13) But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
(14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;​
Been over these same verses you use over and over. Based on your paradigm you reject other verses that are straight forward and to the point. Why do you refuse to give God the glory for redeeming His family? The family Satan ruined.
The whole earth will acknowledge the LORD and return to him. All the families of the nations will bow down before him. Ps 22:27
 
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Der Alte

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Been over these same verses you use over and over. Based on your paradigm you reject other verses that are straight forward and to the point. Why do you refuse to give God the glory for redeeming His family? The family Satan ruined.
The whole earth will acknowledge the LORD and return to him. All the families of the nations will bow down before him. Ps 22:27
All the verses I quote are straight forward but you ignore them.
 
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JohnRemnant

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Explain your view and the duration and how you came to that conclusion.

I should first say, God is not willing any perish. But all come to repentance.
This is what Life is about, God saving His children. But your question is about Judgment Day and what happens at that time. Which concerns the soul sentenced to perish who don't make it.

Exodus 32:33 kjv
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. kjv

Philippians 4:3
And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life. kjv

The Lord Christ told us plainly, concerning The Lake of Fire, a soul is destroyed. Meaning it does not exist anymore once it contacts that fire after Judgment Day.
Which again in the chronological order of events, has not taken place yet for anyone.


Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. kjv

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. kjv

There is even a special acrostic in Psalms 37 which brings added emphasis to this Truth concerning the wicked persons.

Paul and Peter come to mind on this.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

( Mortal, and Immortality, is a new subject introduced up until that point in the chapter concerning, the state of the soul. The Greek for mortal means, liable, to die. Die when? At The Great White Thone Judgement Day. Immortal means, deathlessness. Again John 3:16 kjv )

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


2 Peter 3:
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

( Elements in Greek are the evil Rudiments of the works of mankind and the men who do them again after The Lords Day concludes and Judgment Day beings ).

All of Gods teachings, warnings, on this matter follow that premiss. It is a erasure a blotting out of the soul. They dont exist.

Where people get into trouble is not understanding figures of speech.

As the fat hits fire, for example given in Psalms, so is smoke. So the smoke ascends forever and ever. Is a simple Hebraism meaning finished.
Once fat is turned to smoke, that is a forever consequence. There's no reconstituting smoke to its former state. Its gone.



Its that simple. God can protect those He loves. Or, the wicked, on Judgement contacts God, The Consuming Fire.

Hebrews 12:29

For our God is a consuming fire.


Satan is the only one sentenced by name to die in The Lake of Fire so far. And the fallen angels. Jude, John 17:12, . etc.
Hebrews 2:14-18
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; .


Ezekiel 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:18

“Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.”


Ezekiel 28:16

“By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.”

Read Revelation 20 in its entirety. kjv.
Then one can grasp a better understanding of why there are no tears in Heaven, in The Eternity. Because there wont be anyone that offends to shed a tear for. They probably wont even be remembered. Because they wont exist that follow Satan.

Exodus 32:32 kjv
“Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.”



Revelation 22:19
“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”


Revelation 20:12 kjv
“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. kjv


Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. kjv


Revelation 20:15
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Matthew 25:41 -
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: kjv


( Ever lasting, emphasizing This consequence is final. Consequently, Judged worthy of it. )
I could go into a bit more depth into the figures of speech used concerning this throughout The Bible. But to keep it simple and on point without parable gets it explained. If you keep this in mind, then those other passages become easy to understand.


Chronologically this happens after The Lords Day concludes after The Judgment Day. On a different subject, for now people return to God in Paradise. As Christ illustrated with Parable and figures, to either side of the gulf. The state of their souls being what divides them.
 
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Jipsah

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Well I guess Jesus was lying
Well, if you say so. I can't imagine any Christian saying such a thing, but at least I guess we have to give you points for sheer chutzpah (good Hebrew-derived word for you there.) Maybe you believe that our Lord simply didn't have the kind of linguistic skills you do, could that be it?

In any case, better you than me, matey.
 
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Der Alte

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Well, if you say so. I can't imagine any Christian saying such a thing, but at least I guess we have to give you points for sheer chutzpah (good Hebrew-derived word for you there.) Maybe you believe that our Lord simply didn't have the kind of linguistic skills you do, could that be it?
In any case, better you than me, matey.
By what you posted you are the one who says Jesus is a liar, I'm just acknowledging what you say.
 
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ozso

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John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
Psalms 88:10-11
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
Lazarus was saved and carried to Abraham's bosom which was in the pit ie the same level down as Hades.
1Thessalonians 4:13
(13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
That one is applicable.
Ephesians 2:12
(12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
That's just saying there's no hope without God, which any universalist would agree with.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
That sounds like it's referring to this life rather than the afterlife.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
JPS Prov 24:20
(20) For there will be no future to the evil man, the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.
That one is applicable.
Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.

So out of all of those there are two that are really applicable.
 
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Jipsah

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By what you posted you are the one who says Jesus is a liar, I'm just acknowledging what you say.
So an even slimier and more openly mendacious charge to add to the original vile insult you began with. But nope, what I quoted, you said. Own it, or own the utterly contemptible meaning you originally intended. Either one is dishonorable, but you get to choose the one that reeks the least. You should be more careful with your intended slurs. I had actually thought better of you than that, my mistake. If that's the best you can do in defending your pernicious doctrine, maybe you ought to examine it more closely, assuming you possess even the most minute speck of intellectual honesty.
 
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FineLinen

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Considering John uses this statement of Christ to explain it signifies the manner of His death (Jn.12:33), why do you assume all men are coming for salvation? The Cross is a judgement on sin. It may well be Jesus is saying I will draw all men for judgement. It is, after all, the one thing all men, believer and unbeliever alike, have in common.

Sawdust: All mankind is indeed facing the Fire God and His krisis judgement. When His judgement is complete the entire dimension of created life...

Shall be delivered.

Note: not could be, or might be, but "shall be."
 
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FineLinen

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Sawdust: those who have entered into new life by the wonder of new birth, know what it means to be in Christ.

Every being, in every dimension of ABBA's creation, heaven, earth & underworld proclaims in/en that glorious Name, You are Lord.

Not by perfunctory genuflections: not!!
 
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Hmm

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Amazing.

Der Alte said:
Well I guess Jesus was lying

Truly amazing. It's a good thing I was sitting down when I read that otherwise I would have fallen down with the shock.
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
Lazarus was saved and carried to Abraham's bosom which was in the pit ie the same level down as Hades.
That one is applicable.
That's just saying there's no hope without God, which any universalist would agree with.
Tha would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
That sounds like it's referring to this life rather than the afterlife.
That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
That one is applicable.
That would include believers after death, the way you're applying it.
So out of all of those there are two that are really applicable.
I don't see the problem. I only quoted scripture. You don't like what it says talk to the author.
What work do the righteous participate in after death?
For a universalist how can there be no hope without God when all mankind will be saved even after death.
 
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ozso

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I don't see the problem. I only quoted scripture. You don't like what it says talk to the author.
What work do the righteous participate in after death?
For a universalist how can there be no hope without God when all mankind will be saved even after death.
See post #332
 
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