The duration of hell and its purpose

[ozso]

Unfortunately there is no book in the Bible named the "Book of Weymouth."

hardy har har

 

[ozso]

Most unfortunate that there is not one single vs. in either testament, where the Father, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, says that all mankind will be saved, even after dying in their sins as UR teaches.

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." John 12:32 sprang to mind.

 

[FineLinen]

The word for builder in Hebrew is “bo-neh”. It is also translated repairer. When our Messiah came 2000 years ago, He came to repair lives -- to do a complete restoration of all that is broken in this world.

Complete restoration of broken lives!

 

[Hmm]

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." John 12:32 sprang to mind.

Somehow I have a feeling that won't be good enough for a certain comrade

 

[FineLinen]

In most bible translations, the Greek word entos is translated as within. But, the New Living Translation (NLT) and the NASB translate it as among you and in your midst respectively. They all mean the same thing. In the Greek language, when used in union with a plural noun, entos means among or in the midst of.

In this scripture, we see entos used with a plural form of you, a crowd of Pharisees. "The Kingdom of God is among you" is the accurate translation. Consider this example: if you have many black marbles, and you add one white marble, you now have one white marble within the black ones.

Certainly, the Kingdom of God was not within the hearts of the same Pharisees who Christ also called hypocrites and vipers. Jesus was confirming that the kingdom is not in outer-space or beyond the big blue sky. Jesus Christ was among them, and soon He would be living in his followers. It is by His spirit alone that the Kingdom exists, because the kingdom consists of a people who, because of the Holy Spirit, are in the world but not of the world.

He was declaring that the meek, the poor, and those who hungered and thirsted after righteousness, them who the religious teachers disdained, were among them ready to be made into a majestic people. Blessed are they, as Christ said, for they shall inherit the earth. And it was them - the despised - who would be risen up that they may inherit the earth. This is what Christ and John the Baptist meant when they said "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand." (Mark 1:15, Matthew 3:1-2) When something is "at hand," it is close and immediate. The kingdom was at their doorstep.

Some qualities of the Kingdom=

It can be added to and grow. It can be entered into. Some people can be barred from it both now, and in the ages to come, and how one behaves is directly related to that. It consists of a royal priesthood living in the earth. It is not a physical state, but is a family of believers bound by the Spirit, bearing its fruit.

 

[Der Alte]

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." John 12:32 sprang to mind.

Yep that's the one. I asked for one vs., 2 or more would be better, where the Father, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, speaking says that all mankind will be saved even after death, even those who have died in their sins.
I wonder why Jesus does not drag all mankind to Himself while they are living instead of allowing them live a sinful life, die, be cast into Gehenna, be punished in fire for some period of time then He drags them to Himself, and instantly they love Jesus and forget about all that fire.

 

[ozso]

Yep that's the one. I asked for one vs., 2 or more would be better, where the Father, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, speaking says that all mankind will be saved even after death, even those who have died in their sins.
I wonder why Jesus does not drag all mankind to Himself while they are living instead of allowing them live a sinful life, die, be cast into Gehenna, be punished in fire for some period of time then He drags them to Himself, and instantly they love Jesus and forget about all that fire.

He dragged you to himself when he was lifted up 2000 years before you existed. All mankind can be interpreted as everyone who was ever born, past, present, and future.

I'll work on a second one. Like I said, the first immediately sprang to mind.

 

[Der Alte]

He dragged you to himself when he was lifted up 2000 years before you existed. All mankind can be interpreted as everyone who was ever born, past, present, and future.
I'll work on a second one. Like I said, the first immediately sprang to mind.

Another cop-out answer. Note particularly Jn 9:4.

John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Psalms 88:10-11
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
1Thessalonians 4:13
(13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Ephesians 2:12
(12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
JPS Prov 24:20
(20) For there will be no future to the evil man, the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.
Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.​

 

[ozso]

Another cop-out answer Note particularly Jn 9:4.

John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Psalms 88:10-11
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
1Thessalonians 4:13
(13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Ephesians 2:12
(12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
JPS Prov 24:20
(20) For there will be no future to the evil man, the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.
Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.​

Another cop-out canned gish gallop reply. Try just using verses that apply to the Resurrection of Christ.

 

[FineLinen]

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." John 12:32 sprang to mind.

The Master will draw how many unto Himself?

ALL

Helkuo is a strong word which means to tug, draw, or compel, and is found 6 times in the New Testament. In each usage, whatever was drawn came; there is never a suggestion or hint that whatever was drawn was not accomplished.

 

[Der Alte]

Another cop-out canned gish gallop reply. Try just using verses that apply to the Resurrection of Christ.

Even Jesus can't work in the night. Nor can any dead man.
Dead people are silent, have no hope, can't work, can't praise God, have no knowledge, no wisdom, have no more rewards, have no future.

 

[wendykvw]

I personally like Luke 3:6
All mankind will see (experience) salvation.

The Greek word is Strong's 3708: Properly, to stare at, i.e. to discern clearly; by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear.

 

[wendykvw]

Even Jesus can't work in the night. Nor can any dead man.
Dead people are silent, have no hope, can't work, can't praise God, have no knowledge, no wisdom, have no more rewards, have no future.

Scripture please.

 

[Der Alte]

Scripture please.

See my post #308 above.
Link: The duration of hell and its purpose

 

[wendykvw]

Another cop-out answer. Note particularly Jn 9:4.

John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Psalms 88:10-11
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
1Thessalonians 4:13
(13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Ephesians 2:12
(12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
JPS Prov 24:20
(20) For there will be no future to the evil man, the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.
Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.​

Are you supporting the watchtower and SDA interpretation of soul sleep?

 

[Der Alte]

I personally like Luke 3:6
All mankind will see (experience) salvation.
The Greek word is Strong's 3708: Properly, to stare at, i.e. to discern clearly; by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear.

Note, Luke was a gentile. ὄψεται/opsetai as "to experience" is a Hebraism, doubtful a gentile would use opsetai that way. In the NT opsetai is translated "see" 30 times and "seen" 9 times. It is never translated "experience."
ETA:

Luke 2:27-31
(27) So Simeon, directed by the Spirit, came into the temple courts, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what was customary according to the law,
(28) Simeon took him in his arms and blessed God, saying,
(29) “Now, according to your word, Sovereign Lord, permit your servant to depart in peace.
(30) For my eyes have seen your salvation
(31) that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples:​

 

[Der Alte]

Are you supporting the watchtower and SDA interpretation of soul sleep?

I quoted scripture. During His life Jesus did many things during the nighttime. He spoke about a night when He could not work. Interpret it however you like to make it fit your assumptions/presuppositions.

 

[wendykvw]

Note, Luke was a gentile. ὄψεται/opsetai as "to experience" is a Hebraism, doubtful a gentile would use opsetai that way. In the NT opsetai is translated "see" 30 times and "seen" 9 times. It is never translated "experience."
ETA:

Luke 2:27-31
(27) So Simeon, directed by the Spirit, came into the temple courts, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what was customary according to the law,
(28) Simeon took him in his arms and blessed God, saying,
(29) “Now, according to your word, Sovereign Lord, permit your servant to depart in peace.
(30) For my eyes have seen your salvation
(31) that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples:​

Strong's Greek: 3708. ὁράω (horaó) — has 684 Occurrences. The translators did not use the "experience" based on their own presuppositions. We could go over all 684 occurrences, and in many instances, the greek word ὁράω (horaó) meaning and definition is "experience". Such as these verses, which also have the same greek world ὁράω (horaó).


Did they Experience these things, or was it just their imagination?

Matthew 2:11 V-AIA-3P
GRK: τὴν οἰκίαν εἶδον τὸ παιδίον
NAS: into the house they saw the Child
INT: the house they found the child

Matthew 2:13 V-AMA-2S
GRK: δὲ αὐτῶν ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου
INT: moreover they behold an angel of [the] Lord

Matthew 2:16 V-APA-NMS
GRK: Τότε Ἡρῴδης ἰδὼν ὅτι ἐνεπαίχθη
INT: Then Herod having seen that he had been tricked

Matthew 2:19 V-AMA-2S
GRK: τοῦ Ἡρῴδου ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου
INT: Herod behold an angel of [the] Lord

 

[wendykvw]

I quoted scripture. During His life Jesus did many things during the nighttime. He spoke about a night when He could not work. Interpret it however you like to make it fit your assumptions/presuppositions.

I am asking you if you believe that the dead are all sleeping awaiting resurrection? Is that your assumption or presupposition?

 

[ozso]

Even Jesus can't work in the night. Nor can any dead man. Dead people are silent, have no hope, can't work, can't praise God, have no knowledge, no wisdom, have no more rewards, have no future.

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord 2 Corinthians 5:8