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The Dover trial

joshua 1 9

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“I do not think I hardly ever admired a book more than Paley’s Natural Theology: I could almost formerly have said it by heart.” (Charles Darwin, 1859. Letter to John Lubbock.)
Darwin ultimately rejected intelligent design in favor of natural selection, that's a simple choice. Would we deny that choice to future generations because Darwin's theory is the only option?
Swing and a miss, nice try though. The point is that we need to discuss both sides of the issue. Our strength is in our diversity not in how much we agree or are the same. If you want to endorse a theory that is based on diversity then you can not be blinded by bigotry and quench diversity of opinions.

My point was that if it were not for Paley you would have never heard of Darwin.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Come to that, were Abraham, Moses, David and Ezra real people?

Depends on which part of the Bible one chooses to believe. Evidently it can go many ways with some. I'm sure some toss Christ or even God as not real.

FWIW, I'm talking about Bible or semi Bible believers.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Creationists are anti evolution
Not at all. Theistic Evolution is just as valid of a Creationist belief as any version of Creationism. Most all
creationists accept micro evolution, the objection usually has to do with macro evolution.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Not at all. Theistic Evolution is just as valid of a Creationist belief as any version of Creationism. Most all
creationists accept micro evolution, the objection usually has to do with macro evolution.

So you're saying Creationists are pro evolution? this gets more bizarre by the minute.

BTW, I said nothing about Theistic Evolution.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Now let's see, evolution has nothing do with the origin of life.
Indeed. Mind spreading that around among your fellow creationists? It's really annoying to have to correct people on that so frequently.

Yet evolutionists have a save-young-minds reaction to the teaching of Creationism or Intelligent Design as a way of explaining the origin of life.
Me personally? Not really. It's more a matter of not showing favoritism towards one religion over another, and since that would entail teaching kids every different creation story from all the modern religions at a minimum, it just isn't feasible. Kids have their parents and church for that anyways, and plenty of parents aren't religious or creationists and wouldn't want their kid to learn that.

To be very blunt, though, the origin of life is barely given a footnote until college. That is, "at one point there wasn't any life on this planet, and there is evidence of it starting about 3.5 billion years ago" sums up my public school education on abiogenesis. The term itself wasn't even mentioned, and I took AP Bio in high school.

The biggest issue with teaching kids creationism (which intelligent design is just another term for) is that there isn't any strong evidence supporting it. Thus, there's no legal justification for teaching it.


And atheists feel obliged to poke of fun of Creationism and Intelligent Design on a Christian forum.
I'm not poking fun. I'm actually desperately searching for creationist arguments I myself would find convincing. Alas, about 4 years of being a member of this site have left me disappointed thus far. Furthermore, misrepresenting the opposing viewpoint with strawmen and quote mines is unforgivable, no matter what side of the debate employs those tactics. I've called out people, regardless of their position, for using bad arguments. There's an atheist that comes and goes from here well-known for his garbage arguments and attitude that usually gets banned about a week or two in, and then comes back a couple months later with a new account. That's the only atheist ever on here that I would say detests religion, and no one seems to respect him. I sure don't.

Why not go tutor young minds in math? Save them from a life of retail employment.
Funnily enough, I have tutored people in math before. In high school, I tutored dyslexic students and other kids with learning disabilities. I actually spun myself around and tried to solve basic math problems to get a handle of what it was to be dyslexic and try to do those problems. Not every dyslexic person is the same in how they experience it, and I notice a lot of them had speech issues, like stutters. Quite a few that had issues with math actually were pretty good at reading. Heck, my fiance is dyslexic, and his reading speed keeps up with me (272 words per minute), and he can spell just fine as long as it isn't out loud. Can't do more than basic math without extreme difficulty, though, and I can't imagine how hard long division must be for a dyslexic person.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Not at all. Theistic Evolution is just as valid of a Creationist belief as any version of Creationism. Most all
creationists accept micro evolution, the objection usually has to do with macro evolution.
Hmm, I think most theists that support evolution as a whole don't consider themselves creationists, even when they do believe that the first life on this planet was created by a deity.
 
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Speedwell

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Oh? Are you saying you don't believe in the bible?

I'd say I'm the one who should be laughing...it's fact or it's not.
No, I do believe in the Bible--I just don't believe in your interpretation of it.
 
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joshua 1 9

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So you're saying Creationists are pro evolution?
Yes, not most but the majority are pro evolution. At least if your looking at what we find in our Biology book. Most states require students to be tested on evolution before then can graduate and receive a degree.

I personally accept most all of the Creationist beliefs based on their own perspective. Everything is relative and can not be taken out of context.

upload_2017-5-29_15-53-28.jpeg
 
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Kenny'sID

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No, I do believe in the Bible--I just don't believe in your interpretation of it

If I had a nickel every time...

You mean the clear interpretation that God created man, while he said nothing of man evolving, not even a hint? And what part of taking a rib from Adam to make Eve was confusing to you, or did you take to mean we evolved?
 
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Kenny'sID

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Yes, not most but the majority are pro evolution. At least if your looking at what we find in our Biology book. Most states require students to be tested on evolution before then can graduate and receive a degree.

I personally accept most all of the Creationist beliefs based on their own perspective. Everything is relative and can not be taken out of context.

What do you say to someone who claims black is white?

There's something amiss here?

Whatever....yeah, I think that covers it best.
 
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PsychoSarah

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If I had a nickel every time...

You mean the clear interpretation that God created man, while he said nothing of man evolving, not even a hint? And what part of taking a rib from Adam to make Eve was confusing to you, or did you take to mean we evolved?
"Clear interpretation", like when I say that it's raining cats and dogs, I must absolutely mean that cats and dogs are falling out of the sky. The Old Testament in particular is full of obvious symbolism and allegory. I kid you not, at least half of the names of the characters are puns (Adam meaning dirt, Eve meaning side or rib).
 
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Kenny'sID

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"Clear interpretation", like when I say that it's raining cats and dogs, I must absolutely mean that cats and dogs are falling out of the sky.

What part of the creation explanation gave you the idea it was doing that?

Let's see if I can explain, when you say it's raining cats and dogs, I know perfecly well it doesn't rain cats and dogs, so.... do I really need to explain this further?
 
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Speedwell

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If I had a nickel every time...

You mean the clear interpretation that God created man, while he said nothing of man evolving, not even a hint? And what part of taking a rib from Adam to make Eve was confusing to you, or did you take to mean we evolved?
No, I mean the interpretation that the Garden story was intended by its author(s) to be 100% accurate literal history.
 
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PsychoSarah

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What part of the creation explanation gave you the idea it was doing that?

Let's see if I can explain, when you say it's raining cats and dogs, I know perfecly well it doesn't rain cats and dogs, so.... do I really need to explain this further?
Did you know that every instance in the OT of time being quantified by the number 40 is an idiom? That is, the Hebrews didn't wander the desert for a literal 40 years, the 40 years translates to "a very long time). Whether it is followed by "years" or "days" details how long "a long time" is, being many days or many years.
 
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Kenny'sID

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No, I mean the interpretation that the Garden story was intended by its author(s) to be 100% accurate literal history.

Like sarah just said, when it's obvious it's obvious.

Honestly, this has always been one of the shakiest arguments I've ever heard for changing the Bible, so you do that if you want, I'll never buy your reasoning for it.
 
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Speedwell

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Like sarah just said, when it's obvious it's obvious.

Honestly, this has always been one of the shakiest arguments I've ever heard for changing the Bible, so you do that if you want, I'll never buy your reasoning for it.
Yes, that is certainly my opinion too about what you believe.
 
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