The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[stuart lawrence]

The more earnest you live under a law of righteousness, the worse sinner you become, alongside being a hypocrite.
The only other option is to give up crushed and walk away

 

[Dan61861]

It is so hard to accept the Grace that God has bestowed upon us. The Grace that Christ died to give us. How great is the wonders of God!

In Christ
Daniel

 

[stuart lawrence]

And how do we uphold the law?

Not perfectly, unless you claim sinless perfection!

It's good to read the Bible as a cohesive whole, and pray for understanding of the message contained in the letter, rather than just reeling off the letter itself

 

[1stcenturylady]

The more earnest you live under a law of righteousness, the worse sinner you become, alongside being a hypocrite.
The only other option is to give up crushed and walk away

crushed and walk away? That doesn't sound like the abundant life in Christ?

 

[stuart lawrence]

crushed and walk away? The doesn't sound like the abundant life in Christ?

Living under an earnest law of righteousness isn't the way to live the abundant life of Christ

 

[1stcenturylady]

Living under an earnest law of righteousness isn't the way to live the abundant life of Christ

There is a difference between living under the law and living above it. Living above the law is living as your new nature dictates.

 

[Dan61861]

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[stuart lawrence]

And how do we uphold the law?

Sorry, misread what you wrote.

Look away from yourself and to Christ. Trust him, through the Spirit to bring the change in you, you cannot bring if yourself. And trust he is your righteousness before God.
The more you do this, the more the fruits of the Spirit will grow in you( gal5:22)
Against this fruit there is no law( verse23)
For that fruit is the embodiment of how God wants you to live. Therefore it upholds the law.

 

[stuart lawrence]

There is a difference between living under the law and living above it. Living above the law is living as your new nature dictates.

Living under the law is believing you are only righteous if sin is not committed.
For:
Sin is the transgression of the law
1john3:4

 

[Alithis]

The grace is not saving grace. Salvation is through faith.

My issue with what the previous poster said was he was equating it to salvation. Salvation is by faith.

Salvation is ..by.. Grace
THROUGH faith....

Why THROUGH?

 

[Alithis]

I do not find that to be the case. If someone actually has the Holy Spirit, and not everyone that claims Christ has the Holy Spirit, they have power over sin and are not struggling with guilt. Maybe you ran into people without this power.

I'm going to be misunderstood lol.
But let me say 1st I DO agree with you.

But I struggle with “thoughts and feelings of guilt“ If and when thoughts and desires present themselves in my mind or flesh.
But I don't struggle with Sin .Jesus has given me the Power to fully overcome sin .
I can't obey the holy spirit and love Jesus..And sin at the same time.
Just can't do it.
Gave to choose one.
So I love Jesus...he set me free.


I would do a longer post exposing that But it's late here.
And I have a feeling you get it.

 

[stuart lawrence]

The Christian is called to make Christ Lord and Saviour of their life. They are the people Paul is writing to in Romans when he preaches grace.
If you have made Christ you Lord and master, you have no need of a law of righteousness. You in your heart want to obey God, for that is where the law has been placed. IN YOUR HEART.
However, that does not mean you will be perfect in the flesh. Only Christ was sinless when he walked this earth. But you will hate your Imperfections, for the holy spirit dwells in you, and if you commit what is termed wilfull sin your conscience will be seered for you are going against what is in your heart.
The people who need a law of righteousness in place to encourage them to obey are the religious. Who's christianity consists of turning up at church once a week, and making sure they don't get drunk, use foul language, have extra marital affairs or smoke. They basically believe that will entitle them to a free pass into heaven.
And of course, some make a commitment, not because they love God but simply to avoid hell. A law of righteousness may be needed for them also.
But it is not needed for those who have been born again and truly love God, and have his law in their hearts

 

[stuart lawrence]

The power of sin is the law( of righteousness) 1cor15:56

So God did an amazing thing. He transferred the law from an external law written on tablets of stone, to an Internal law written on tablets of human hearts( 2cor3:3)
At the same time the law is placed in your heart, the law of righteousness is removed from you, for you have a Saviour from your sin.
The born again Christians heartfelt desire to obey( for that is where the law has been placed) can now come to fruition. For what opposes obedience( sin) was dealt a crushing blow by its true power being removed from the believers life( the law of righteousness.)
Therefore as paul states:

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14

But though the law of righteousness is removed, the law itself remains unshakeable and intact, in the minds and hearts of believers.

It's an awesome covenant, for those willing to accept it!

 

[1stcenturylady]

Sorry, misread what you wrote.

Look away from yourself and to Christ. Trust him, through the Spirit to bring the change in you, you cannot bring if yourself. And trust he is your righteousness before God.
The more you do this, the more the fruits of the Spirit will grow in you( gal5:22)
Against this fruit there is no law( verse23)
For that fruit is the embodiment of how God wants you to live. Therefore it upholds the law.

You're preaching to the choir, stuart. If you read my testimony you know I am not under the law, I am under the Spirit.

 

[stuart lawrence]

You're preaching to the choir, stuart. If you read my testimony you know I am not under the law, I am under the Spirit.

I was raised in an evangelical church. I believed when I became a Christian, the slate was wiped clean. All my sins were forgiven. I set out on the Christian walk determined to live a pure and holy life for God. For I knew God hated sin, and Christians couldn't go around living a sinful life.
Any thought of sin made me panic, I wasn't living the pure and holy life Christians should live. I feared hell due to my failure to be dead to sin if you like, in respect of never committing sin. For now I was a teenager and had reached puberty. My impure thoughts were killing me.
Plus I got angry at times ( as kids do) and didn't want to do what my parents told me I must do. My mother used to shake her head, give me a sad smile as if to say: Why can't you live as Christians should live. She as good as said: Why arent you dead to sin?
I imagine, from your posts, you believe if teenagers have Impure thoughts, this is because they refuse to follow after the holy spirit and are therefore not dead to sin/ don't commit sin. Therefore their salvation is in doubt.
Or, do you excuse teenagers of not being dead to sin, but adults are not excused. What is your age of accountability?
Anyways, I grew up living under the law without even realising I was doing it. I was young after all, such spiritual truth I did not then know

 

[Alithis]

You're preaching to the choir, stuart. If you read my testimony you know I am not under the law, I am under the Spirit.

Who is Stuart?...

 

[1stcenturylady]

Who is Stuart?...

Stuart Lawrence. If you don't have him on "ignore" you should be able to see his name.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I was raised in an evangelical church. I believed when I became a Christian, the slate was wiped clean. All my sins were forgiven. I set out on the Christian walk determined to live a pure and holy life for God. For I knew God hated sin, and Christians couldn't go around living a sinful life.
Any thought of sin made me panic, I wasn't living the pure and holy life Christians should live. I feared hell due to my failure to be dead to sin if you like, in respect of never committing sin. For now I was a teenager and had reached puberty. My impure thoughts were killing me.
Plus I got angry at times ( as kids do) and didn't want to do what my parents told me I must do. My mother used to shake her head, give me a sad smile as if to say: Why can't you live as Christians should live. She as good as said: Why arent you dead to sin?
I imagine, from your posts, you believe if teenagers have Impure thoughts, this is because they refuse to follow after the holy spirit and are therefore not dead to sin/ don't commit sin. Therefore their salvation is in doubt.
Or, do you excuse teenagers of not being dead to sin, but adults are not excused. What is your age of accountability?
Anyways, I grew up living under the law without even realizing I was doing it. I was young after all, such spiritual truth I did not then know

Paul understood burning with lust and said to marry. You were too young to marry. What a pickle! I would consider your over-charged hormones, a trial, producing patience.

No, I wouldn't condemn you, stuart. I certainly do not know everything. And as for your beliefs on the law, I plan to re-read the whole New Testament to see if I need to make changes to my own beliefs. I do this regularly as each time the Holy Spirit teaches me a new-to-me revelation. I only want to "teach" God's meaning to Scripture. I do remember not that many years ago that given to a Christian, grace is the power of God, no longer just unmerited favor as in first coming to Christ. And I remember when I was still a Seventh-day Adventist being first shown grace in 1970 and seeing it as you do now. I will re-visit scripture with a focus on grace/sin/law/all of the above. In 1971 I remember my first encounter with a Pentecostal, and believed it. But it took till 1977 to receive the overflowing presence and infilling in my life. (my testimony). I had so much power over sin over-night, I do know-that-I-know that grace IS the power of God. However, looking back, I still sinned in areas I didn't know were sin, due to a false teaching I learned from a teacher (not at Jack Hayford's church) that mis-represented some sins. But in time the Holy Spirit straightened out those crooked paths. Some sins really are a matter of the heart and knowledge revealed. Are they willful, or done in ignorance. But God will finish and perfect what He started in us.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Paul understood burning with lust and said to marry. You were too young to marry. What a pickle! I would consider your over-charged hormones, a trial, producing patience.

No, I wouldn't condemn you, stuart. I certainly do not know everything. And as for your beliefs on the law, I plan to re-read the whole New Testament to see if I need to make changes to my own beliefs. I do this regularly as each time the Holy Spirit teaches me a new-to-me revelation. I only want to "teach" God's meaning to Scripture. I do remember not that many years ago that given to a Christian, grace is the power of God, no longer just unmerited favor as in first coming to Christ. And I remember when I was still a Seventh-day Adventist being first shown grace in 1970 and seeing it as you do now. I will re-visit scripture with a focus on grace/sin/law/all of the above. In 1971 I remember my first encounter with a Pentecostal, and believed it. But it took till 1977 to receive the overflowing presence and infilling in my life. (my testimony). I had so much power over sin over-night, I do know-that-I-know that grace IS the power of God. However, looking back, I still sinned in areas I didn't know were sin, due to a false teaching I learned from a teacher (not at Jack Hayford's church) that mis-represented some sins. But in time the Holy Spirit straightened out those crooked paths. Some sins really are a matter of the heart and knowledge revealed. Are they willful, or done in ignorance. But God will finish and perfect what He started in us.

There are very few on the internet who would reread the NT with an open mind to make sure the way they see things are correct. That speaks much of a sincere heart.
I do wonder if the truth isn't some of what we both believe that needs to be merged together if you like.
For none of us has a monopoly on spiritual truth.

 

[1stcenturylady]

There are very few on the internet who would reread the NT with an open mind to make sure the way they see things are correct. That speaks much of a sincere heart.
I do wonder if the truth isn't some of what we both believe that needs to be merged together if you like.
For none of us has a monopoly on spiritual truth.

Thanks, Stuart. That's all I want, is to know His will. And I see you do too. I do know that I must read a whole book from beginning to end, but slowly, absorbing, in context. I always come away with something fresh.