The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Rajni

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Right. I agree. It is only by the Holy Spirit we receive AFTER becoming Christ's do we receive power over sin. Roman 3:20 is talking Old Covenant. The Spirit is New Covenant.
Okay so one person is saying that righteousness for the Christian is observing 1,050 of the commandments, and another is saying that Christians are supposed to follow the New Covenant commandments. So then, where is this list of 1,050 New Covenant commandments Christians are supposed to observe to be righteous?
 
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stuart lawrence

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Okay so one person is saying that righteousness for the Christian is observing 1,050 of the commandments, and another is saying that Christians are supposed to follow the New Covenant commandments. So then, where is this list of 1,050 New Covenant commandments Christians are supposed to observe to be righteous?
Ask Jason.
He insists the Christian is under a law of righteousness concerning 1050 NT commands
 
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Dan61861

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Psalms 39:5

“Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.”


In man's best state he is SIN!

This is why we need to be born again, born under Grace and not the Law.

You should ask yourself,
What is being born again
how am I born again
what are the results of being born again.

In Chris
Daniel
 
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Dan61861

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I hope Jason keeps plugging along, preaching the same thing the apostles did for a long, long time.

Your post here seems to put Jesus as your scapegoat, so you can live with an invisibility cloak over sewage. That is NOT the gospel. Jesus died to cleanse us from not only our sin, but the DESIRE to sin. We are dead to sin because we have been given Christ's Spirit to walk in. We have the power of God working in us.

That is exactly what I am saying, Christ fulfilled the Law. There had to be a scapegoat. Jesus is the scapegoat, our sins were placed onto Him.
Christ is our covering. All the glory belongs to Christ alone!
The Gospel is simple, it is Christ and Him crucified!

We walk in liberty. Yet God forbid any of us sin.
We are promised a change, not in this life but in the life to come!
Christ is our Hope.

In Christ
Daniel
 
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toLiJC

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Many times when I discuss Eternal Security, I hear two different messages. One message says a true Christian is defined by loving Jesus and by being more Christ like. Yet, another message within Eternal Security says you can die in the unrepentant sin of lying, or the sin of unforgiveness, etc. and still be saved.

What doth thou sayeth?
...

either we work for overall salvation in the true God or we have no promise of anything better - would all those people that Jesus saved be saved if He didn't go to cast the devils out of them, heal the sick, preach the Gospel, etc.?!, or would the patients that doctors healed be healed if there were no doctors to heal them?!, let's say God is faithful as a system Administrator/Provider of life to save all souls at least at one last day/hour, but there is no promise of anything better if we don't work for overall salvation opportunely

Matthew 7:12 "whatsoever you desire that people should do for you, do likewise for them, for this is the Law and The Prophets."

Blessings
 
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Ask Jason.
He insists the Christian is under a law of righteousness concerning 1050 NT commands

Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
This is not in conflict with God's grace but it is in harmony with it.
When you say I am under the law of righteousness, I assume you mean that that the keeping of the commandments is entering into life that Jesus is talking about, right?

However, not all 1,050 + New Testament commands they list deal with the second death (Lake of Fire) if they are disobeyed and or not repented of.

There are sins that lead to death and sins that do not lead to death (1 John 5:16-17).


...
 
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All I ask is that you are honest with yourself. Have you stopped sinning? If not, what takes away that sin?
Is it your desire to stop?
Is it Christ?

In Christ
Daniel

You see it as impossible to stop sinning so you conclude that your world experience and beliefs is the reality of the believer when it really is not. We are told in Scripture that we can overcome sin. See 1 Peter 4:1-2. Romans 13:14. Galatians 5:16. Galatians 5:24.

This does not mean new believers do not struggle with sin and they do not go to Christ for forgiveness. But new believers are supposed to in time mature and overcome their sin and not justify it as being normal to do so.


...
 
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either we work for overall salvation in the true God or we have no promise of anything better - would all those people that Jesus saved be saved if He didn't go to cast the devils out of them, heal the sick, preach the Gospel, etc.?!, or would the patients that doctors healed be healed if there were no doctors to heal them?!, let's say God is faithful as a system Administrator/Provider of life to save all souls at least at one last day/hour, but there is no promise of anything better if we don't work for overall salvation opportunely

Matthew 7:12 "whatsoever you desire that people should do for you, do likewise for them, for this is the Law and The Prophets."

Blessings

In Matthew 7:23, we learn that those who did many wonderful works and also worked iniquity (sin) were told by Christ to depart from Him.

Matthew 7:26-27 says he that does not do what Jesus says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand when a storm came, great was the fall of that house.

So I do not see any OSAS here in Matthew 7.
Actually, I see Matthew 7 as teaching against it.


...
 
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Psalms 39:5

“Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.”


In man's best state he is SIN!

This is why we need to be born again, born under Grace and not the Law.

You should ask yourself,
What is being born again
how am I born again
what are the results of being born again.

In Chris
Daniel

Man's best state WITHOUT God is sin!
This is not talking about a regenerate believer who lets the work of Christ or God to move through them.


...
 
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Dan61861

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You see it as impossible to stop sinning so you conclude that your world experience and beliefs is the reality of the believer when it really is not. We are told in Scripture that we can overcome sin. See 1 Peter 4:1-2. Romans 13:14. Galatians 5:16. Galatians 5:24.

This does not mean new believers do not struggle with sin and they do not go to Christ for forgiveness. But new believers are supposed to in time mature and overcome their sin and not justify it as being normal to do so.


...
That is double speak if I have ever heard it Jason. On one had you say it is possible to stop sinning, on the other you say believers struggle with sin.

Do you not know that our flesh cannot please God? It is God's mercy that saves us, not our abilities.

Again Jason, if your doctrine is true...
Give me the list of men.

BTW, Noah was saved by God's grace...read it.

In Christ
Daniel
 
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I have explained it time and time again. And even when you are shown to be plainly wrong you cannot bring yourself to admit it.
You have eyes but refuse to see
And ears but refuse to hear

I don't recall you explaining Matthew 23:23 to me before. Can you maybe refer me to a post # or something?



...
 
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That is double speak if I have ever heard it Jason. On one had you say it is possible to stop sinning, on the other you say believers struggle with sin.

There is no contradiction. It is an issue of time. It takes time for some (not all) believers to overcome sin (and mature in the faith). Once they matured, then they have learned to overcome sin.

Actually, Eternal Security is a two fold message of contradiction.
In Eternal Security, one message says you are to be more Christ like and holy.
Yet, in Eternal Security, the other message says you can sin and still be saved (on some level) which runs contrary to being more Christ like.

You said:
You Do you not know that our flesh cannot please God?

When you read Romans 8:8, you have to read the context. The "flesh" is not only in reference to a sinful way of thinking (Romans 8:7) but it is also in reference to sinful deeds, too.

12 "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:12-13).

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

You said:
It is God's mercy that saves us, not our abilities.

Actually, we are saved by God's mercy, His sacrifice (blood), His resurrection, washing of regeneration of the Holy Ghost, and by Christ working in us (and not in any effort of our own power outside of God or Christ). Any good a genuine believer does is the work of God or Christ done through them because Jesus said you can do nothing without me (See John 15:5). For it's why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus.

You said:
Again Jason, if your doctrine is true...
Give me the list of men.

Again, you don't get it.
We are in the last days and things are darker.
As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

You said:
BTW, Noah was saved by God's grace...read it.

In Christ
Daniel

Then why did God feel heart broken at the world for being so wicked?
What could they have done differently that could have made them right with God?
It is said that the global flood is an example to all who should live ungodly thereafter.
It was not example of OSAS (a sin and still be saved type doctrine).
The flood was an example of showing how ungodly living leads to destruction and death.

"By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith." (Hebrews 11:7).


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Do you sin Jason?

First, not all sin is the same. There are sins that lead to death and sins that do not lead to death (See 1 John 5:16-17).

Second, to answer your question: Well, I do not abide in unrepentant serious sin. My walk with the Lord is upright and in His good ways most days (in regards to serious sin and not minor transgressions). I seek to obey Jesus more and more in His good ways instead of trying to turn God's grace into a license to sin as most do these days. For Titus 2:11-12 says the true grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live soberly, righteously, and Godly in this present world.

The true believer (as described to us in Scripture) is sort of like an alcoholic who joins a drug program and who may stumble on occasion on his road to overcoming his sin of alcoholism or in being sober free.

The Eternal Security proponent (in most cases and not all cases) is sort of like an alcoholic who joins a drug program to make a loved one happy but they have no real intention of giving up the bottle because they think that it is impossible to become sober free (despite other alcoholics having become sober free).


...
 
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Dan61861

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Again, you don't get it.
We are in the last days and things are darker.
As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man.


It should not matter Jason, give me a list of the men from any century...it should be an extensive list. All these men that do not sin.
 
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Genesis 6:8

“But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.”

Noah was a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5). So he obviously lived righteously in order to preach about it. 1 John 3:7 tells us not to be deceived on the matter that he that does righteousness is righteous.


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Again, you don't get it.
We are in the last days and things are darker.
As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man.


It should not matter Jason, give me a list of the men from any century...it should be an extensive list. All these men that do not sin.

The 144,000 are found without fault before the throne of God (See Revelation 14:3-5).


...
 
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Dan61861

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First, not all sin is the same. There are sins that lead to death and sins that do not lead to death (See 1 John 5:16-17).

Second, to answer your question: Well, I do not abide in unrepentant serious sin. My walk with the Lord is upright and in His good ways most days (in regards to serious sin and not minor transgressions). I seek to obey Jesus more and more in His good ways instead of trying to turn God's grace into a license to sin as most do these days. For Titus 2:11-12 says the true grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live soberly, righteously, and Godly in this present world.

The true believer (as described to us in Scripture) is sort of like an alcoholic who joins a drug program and who may stumble on occasion on his road to overcoming his sin of alcoholism or in being sober free.

The Eternal Security proponent (in most cases and not all cases) is sort of like an alcoholic who joins a drug program to make a loved one happy but they have no real intention of giving up the bottle because they think that it is impossible to become sober free (despite other alcoholics having become sober free).


...

You said...
1 John 3:8 “He that committeth sin is of the devil;
Why should we believe you Jason, you sin, you are of the devil.
Your own words testify against you.
 
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